Cyclist dies on unroadworthy wreck.

On 20/05/2015 13:25, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 13:08, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 20/05/2015 10:44, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:47, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:08, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:02, Mrcheerful wrote:
Recumbent rider failed to notice the likelihood of a car door
opening,
failed to pass sufficiently wide and due to his type of machine and
its
condition, fell off and died. Viable transport?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...e-died-9290908






Hmm! The lady said "Mrs Jackson said: “I consider myself to be a
careful and competent driver. I feel very sorry that the cyclist died
but don’t think there’s anything I could have done different to avoid
this accident.”

How about looking before opening her door?
She *obviously* caused the accident by her
carelessness.

Recumbents are very low to the ground and would be easy to miss with a
quick glance in a mirror.
The cyclist was also careless, he would have seen the vehicle stop and
would know that the likelihood is that a door will open soon after, he
failed to allow enough room or stopping distance to avoid the
possibility, his machine was of such a type and in such poor condition
that he left it all too late to slow, stop or otherwise avoid the
obvious obstacle.

"a quick glance"!?
Unlike you, I look *very* carefully before opening my car doors.
She was to blame, unless you strangely consider that the accident
would've happened even if she hadn't opened the door?
She opened her door carelessly, resulting in his death.
How you can side with her is beyond me.

I do not side with her. She failed to look enough, however the cyclist
could also have avoided the incident by being more observant. As the
most vulnerable one he needed to take the most care, yet he clearly did
not.

How on earth can a cyclist avoid a car door suddenly being opened when
you're a few feet away from the door and travelling at around 15mph?
I've had several close calls like that when I've been cycling.
Car drivers are notorious for not seeing cyclists and not just door
openings, but many don't look properly at junctions. I've had many just
pull out dangerously because they haven't seen me. They only seem to be
looking out for cars etc. Too much of a hurry and not enough care.


It is called anticipation and is a part of defensive driving/riding.
The cyclist is the vulnerable one and will usually be hurt in any
collision, why on earth would the cyclist not do everything in his power
to make his journey safer? Relying upon other people to be perfect is
not the way to travel safely when using any form of road transport.
Saying its someone else's fault does not help when you are dead or
seriously injured.

On 20/05/2015 15:01, RJH wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:02, Mrcheerful wrote:
Recumbent rider failed to notice the likelihood of a car door opening,
failed to pass sufficiently wide and due to his type of machine and its
condition, fell off and died. Viable transport?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...e-died-9290908



The school run is a bad time for cyclists, and I suspect anybody on or
near roads. I give cars a very wide berth at those times.

Just out of interest, how would you 'notice the likelihood of a car door
opening'? It's one of these things I cycle in anticipation of, and it
happens once or twice a year. Never hit yet, but I've come close.

I met a bloke who got caught - left him severely epileptic. Better than
the poor sod in your link though.


As the woman had only just pulled up it is very likely that an observant
road user would have seen her do so, and given a wide berth for the very
likely possibility of a door opening. Using a recumbent on the road
increases the difficulties of vision both by the cyclist and of the
cyclist, therefore the cyclist should have been taking even greater care
than a 'normal' cyclist to maintain safe speed and position while going
past a recently stopped car.

On 20/05/2015 15:05, RJH wrote:
On 20/05/2015 13:25, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 13:08, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 20/05/2015 10:44, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:47, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:08, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:02, Mrcheerful wrote:
Recumbent rider failed to notice the likelihood of a car door
opening,
failed to pass sufficiently wide and due to his type of machine and
its
condition, fell off and died. Viable transport?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...e-died-9290908







Hmm! The lady said "Mrs Jackson said: “I consider myself to be a
careful and competent driver. I feel very sorry that the cyclist died
but don’t think there’s anything I could have done different to avoid
this accident.”

How about looking before opening her door?
She *obviously* caused the accident by her
carelessness.

Recumbents are very low to the ground and would be easy to miss with a
quick glance in a mirror.
The cyclist was also careless, he would have seen the vehicle stop and
would know that the likelihood is that a door will open soon after, he
failed to allow enough room or stopping distance to avoid the
possibility, his machine was of such a type and in such poor condition
that he left it all too late to slow, stop or otherwise avoid the
obvious obstacle.

"a quick glance"!?
Unlike you, I look *very* carefully before opening my car doors.
She was to blame, unless you strangely consider that the accident
would've happened even if she hadn't opened the door?
She opened her door carelessly, resulting in his death.
How you can side with her is beyond me.

I do not side with her. She failed to look enough, however the cyclist
could also have avoided the incident by being more observant. As the
most vulnerable one he needed to take the most care, yet he clearly did
not.

How on earth can a cyclist avoid a car door suddenly being opened when
you're a few feet away from the door and travelling at around 15mph?
I've had several close calls like that when I've been cycling.
Car drivers are notorious for not seeing cyclists and not just door
openings, but many don't look properly at junctions. I've had many just
pull out dangerously because they haven't seen me. They only seem to be
looking out for cars etc. Too much of a hurry and not enough care.


Quite - I think you'd need to be a cyclist to realise. As I said up
thread, the school run is a terror for this. And parents who unload
their kids into the road. I despair at times.

Also, according to the news the other night, many of the school run mums
are still well over the alcohol limit in the mornings.

On 20/05/2015 15:18, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 20/05/2015 13:25, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 13:08, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 20/05/2015 10:44, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:47, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:08, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:02, Mrcheerful wrote:
Recumbent rider failed to notice the likelihood of a car door
opening,
failed to pass sufficiently wide and due to his type of machine and
its
condition, fell off and died. Viable transport?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...e-died-9290908







Hmm! The lady said "Mrs Jackson said: “I consider myself to be a
careful and competent driver. I feel very sorry that the cyclist died
but don’t think there’s anything I could have done different to avoid
this accident.”

How about looking before opening her door?
She *obviously* caused the accident by her
carelessness.

Recumbents are very low to the ground and would be easy to miss with a
quick glance in a mirror.
The cyclist was also careless, he would have seen the vehicle stop and
would know that the likelihood is that a door will open soon after, he
failed to allow enough room or stopping distance to avoid the
possibility, his machine was of such a type and in such poor condition
that he left it all too late to slow, stop or otherwise avoid the
obvious obstacle.

"a quick glance"!?
Unlike you, I look *very* carefully before opening my car doors.
She was to blame, unless you strangely consider that the accident
would've happened even if she hadn't opened the door?
She opened her door carelessly, resulting in his death.
How you can side with her is beyond me.

I do not side with her. She failed to look enough, however the cyclist
could also have avoided the incident by being more observant. As the
most vulnerable one he needed to take the most care, yet he clearly did
not.

How on earth can a cyclist avoid a car door suddenly being opened when
you're a few feet away from the door and travelling at around 15mph?
I've had several close calls like that when I've been cycling.
Car drivers are notorious for not seeing cyclists and not just door
openings, but many don't look properly at junctions. I've had many just
pull out dangerously because they haven't seen me. They only seem to be
looking out for cars etc. Too much of a hurry and not enough care.


It is called anticipation and is a part of defensive driving/riding. The
cyclist is the vulnerable one and will usually be hurt in any collision,
why on earth would the cyclist not do everything in his power to make
his journey safer? Relying upon other people to be perfect is not the
way to travel safely when using any form of road transport. Saying its
someone else's fault does not help when you are dead or seriously injured.

I always try to anticipate, but it's not always possible to anticipate
car doors suddenly opening. If you cycled, you'd know what I mean.

On 20/05/2015 15:23, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 20/05/2015 15:01, RJH wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:02, Mrcheerful wrote:
Recumbent rider failed to notice the likelihood of a car door opening,
failed to pass sufficiently wide and due to his type of machine and its
condition, fell off and died. Viable transport?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...e-died-9290908




The school run is a bad time for cyclists, and I suspect anybody on or
near roads. I give cars a very wide berth at those times.

Just out of interest, how would you 'notice the likelihood of a car door
opening'? It's one of these things I cycle in anticipation of, and it
happens once or twice a year. Never hit yet, but I've come close.

I met a bloke who got caught - left him severely epileptic. Better than
the poor sod in your link though.


As the woman had only just pulled up it is very likely that an observant
road user would have seen her do so, and given a wide berth for the very
likely possibility of a door opening. Using a recumbent on the road
increases the difficulties of vision both by the cyclist and of the
cyclist, therefore the cyclist should have been taking even greater care
than a 'normal' cyclist to maintain safe speed and position while going
past a recently stopped car.

You're STILL siding with the driver.
She admitted that she had already clipped a bin with her wing mirror
before she got out. The woman is obviously a careless driver.
There's no other way to look at it, the accident *wouldn't* have
happened if she'd looked properly.
She was found guilty, end of story.

On 20/05/2015 15:32, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 15:18, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 20/05/2015 13:25, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 13:08, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 20/05/2015 10:44, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:47, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:08, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:02, Mrcheerful wrote:
Recumbent rider failed to notice the likelihood of a car door
opening,
failed to pass sufficiently wide and due to his type of machine and
its
condition, fell off and died. Viable transport?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...e-died-9290908








Hmm! The lady said "Mrs Jackson said: “I consider myself to be a
careful and competent driver. I feel very sorry that the cyclist
died
but don’t think there’s anything I could have done different to
avoid
this accident.”

How about looking before opening her door?
She *obviously* caused the accident by her
carelessness.

Recumbents are very low to the ground and would be easy to miss
with a
quick glance in a mirror.
The cyclist was also careless, he would have seen the vehicle stop
and
would know that the likelihood is that a door will open soon
after, he
failed to allow enough room or stopping distance to avoid the
possibility, his machine was of such a type and in such poor
condition
that he left it all too late to slow, stop or otherwise avoid the
obvious obstacle.

"a quick glance"!?
Unlike you, I look *very* carefully before opening my car doors.
She was to blame, unless you strangely consider that the accident
would've happened even if she hadn't opened the door?
She opened her door carelessly, resulting in his death.
How you can side with her is beyond me.

I do not side with her. She failed to look enough, however the cyclist
could also have avoided the incident by being more observant. As the
most vulnerable one he needed to take the most care, yet he clearly did
not.

How on earth can a cyclist avoid a car door suddenly being opened when
you're a few feet away from the door and travelling at around 15mph?
I've had several close calls like that when I've been cycling.
Car drivers are notorious for not seeing cyclists and not just door
openings, but many don't look properly at junctions. I've had many just
pull out dangerously because they haven't seen me. They only seem to be
looking out for cars etc. Too much of a hurry and not enough care.


It is called anticipation and is a part of defensive driving/riding. The
cyclist is the vulnerable one and will usually be hurt in any collision,
why on earth would the cyclist not do everything in his power to make
his journey safer? Relying upon other people to be perfect is not the
way to travel safely when using any form of road transport. Saying its
someone else's fault does not help when you are dead or seriously
injured.

I always try to anticipate, but it's not always possible to anticipate
car doors suddenly opening. If you cycled, you'd know what I mean.


If you cannot anticipate that the driver's door is likely to open soon
after a car has pulled up, then perhaps you should not be using the roads.

A safe speed and machine coupled with a suitable distance from the car
would mean that cyclist would likely still be alive.

On 20/05/2015 10:44, Bod wrote:

On 20/05/2015 09:47, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:08, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:02, Mrcheerful wrote:
Recumbent rider failed to notice the likelihood of a car door opening,
failed to pass sufficiently wide and due to his type of machine and its
condition, fell off and died. Viable transport?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...e-died-9290908

Hmm! The lady said "Mrs Jackson said: “I consider myself to be a
careful and competent driver. I feel very sorry that the cyclist died
but don’t think there’s anything I could have done different to avoid
this accident.”

How about looking before opening her door?
She *obviously* caused the accident by her
carelessness.

Recumbents are very low to the ground and would be easy to miss with a
quick glance in a mirror.
The cyclist was also careless, he would have seen the vehicle stop and
would know that the likelihood is that a door will open soon after, he
failed to allow enough room or stopping distance to avoid the
possibility, his machine was of such a type and in such poor condition
that he left it all too late to slow, stop or otherwise avoid the
obvious obstacle.

"a quick glance"!?
Unlike you, I look *very* carefully before opening my car doors.
She was to blame, unless you strangely consider that the accident
would've happened even if she hadn't opened the door?
She opened her door carelessly, resulting in his death.
How you can side with her is beyond me.

The report is of an inquest hearing.

Has there been a magistrates' or Crown court hearing brought by the police?

On 20/05/2015 15:32, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 15:18, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 20/05/2015 13:25, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 13:08, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 20/05/2015 10:44, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:47, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:08, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:02, Mrcheerful wrote:
Recumbent rider failed to notice the likelihood of a car door
opening,
failed to pass sufficiently wide and due to his type of machine and
its
condition, fell off and died. Viable transport?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...e-died-9290908








Hmm! The lady said "Mrs Jackson said: “I consider myself to be a
careful and competent driver. I feel very sorry that the cyclist
died
but don’t think there’s anything I could have done different to
avoid
this accident.”

How about looking before opening her door?
She *obviously* caused the accident by her
carelessness.

Recumbents are very low to the ground and would be easy to miss
with a
quick glance in a mirror.
The cyclist was also careless, he would have seen the vehicle stop
and
would know that the likelihood is that a door will open soon
after, he
failed to allow enough room or stopping distance to avoid the
possibility, his machine was of such a type and in such poor
condition
that he left it all too late to slow, stop or otherwise avoid the
obvious obstacle.

"a quick glance"!?
Unlike you, I look *very* carefully before opening my car doors.
She was to blame, unless you strangely consider that the accident
would've happened even if she hadn't opened the door?
She opened her door carelessly, resulting in his death.
How you can side with her is beyond me.

I do not side with her. She failed to look enough, however the cyclist
could also have avoided the incident by being more observant. As the
most vulnerable one he needed to take the most care, yet he clearly did
not.

How on earth can a cyclist avoid a car door suddenly being opened when
you're a few feet away from the door and travelling at around 15mph?
I've had several close calls like that when I've been cycling.
Car drivers are notorious for not seeing cyclists and not just door
openings, but many don't look properly at junctions. I've had many just
pull out dangerously because they haven't seen me. They only seem to be
looking out for cars etc. Too much of a hurry and not enough care.


It is called anticipation and is a part of defensive driving/riding. The
cyclist is the vulnerable one and will usually be hurt in any collision,
why on earth would the cyclist not do everything in his power to make
his journey safer? Relying upon other people to be perfect is not the
way to travel safely when using any form of road transport. Saying its
someone else's fault does not help when you are dead or seriously
injured.

I always try to anticipate, but it's not always possible to anticipate
car doors suddenly opening. If you cycled, you'd know what I mean.

Everyone knows what you mean, but not everyone necessarily accepts what
you say.

Have you any answer to the observation that no-one has ever opened a
car-door directly in my path so close that I could not slow or stop,
even when (say) driving *very* close to a line of stationary (parked)
vehicles in a closely-packed terraced street?

Do you insist that this is nothing to do with *my* speed restraint,
caution and constant observation and anticipation in such circumstances
(shared by many other drivers)?




OK

On 20/05/2015 15:39, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 15:23, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 20/05/2015 15:01, RJH wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:02, Mrcheerful wrote:
Recumbent rider failed to notice the likelihood of a car door opening,
failed to pass sufficiently wide and due to his type of machine and its
condition, fell off and died. Viable transport?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...e-died-9290908





The school run is a bad time for cyclists, and I suspect anybody on or
near roads. I give cars a very wide berth at those times.

Just out of interest, how would you 'notice the likelihood of a car door
opening'? It's one of these things I cycle in anticipation of, and it
happens once or twice a year. Never hit yet, but I've come close.

I met a bloke who got caught - left him severely epileptic. Better than
the poor sod in your link though.


As the woman had only just pulled up it is very likely that an observant
road user would have seen her do so, and given a wide berth for the very
likely possibility of a door opening. Using a recumbent on the road
increases the difficulties of vision both by the cyclist and of the
cyclist, therefore the cyclist should have been taking even greater care
than a 'normal' cyclist to maintain safe speed and position while going
past a recently stopped car.

You're STILL siding with the driver...

....is there some reason why he mustn't do that?

She admitted that she had already clipped a bin with her wing mirror
before she got out. The woman is obviously a careless driver.

Being human, all drivers are fallible and so careless now and then. Even
you. Does that mean that every future driving action will be done
carelessly?

There's no other way to look at it, the accident *wouldn't* have
happened if she'd looked properly.
She was found guilty, end of story.

QUOTE:
Mum-of-one Nnnnnn Nnnnnnnn, of Zzzzzz Street, subsequently admitted a
charge of opening a car door so as to injure or endanger a person and
was banned from driving for six months and fined £305.
ENDQUOTE

The reporter manages to make it sound like a deliberate action.

Any thoughts on why it wasn't a CDBDD or CDBCD?

On 20/05/2015 16:43, JNugent wrote:
On 20/05/2015 10:44, Bod wrote:

On 20/05/2015 09:47, Mrcheerful wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:08, Bod wrote:
On 20/05/2015 09:02, Mrcheerful wrote:
Recumbent rider failed to notice the likelihood of a car door opening,
failed to pass sufficiently wide and due to his type of machine and
its
condition, fell off and died. Viable transport?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...e-died-9290908


Hmm! The lady said "Mrs Jackson said: “I consider myself to be a
careful and competent driver. I feel very sorry that the cyclist died
but don’t think there’s anything I could have done different to avoid
this accident.”

How about looking before opening her door?
She *obviously* caused the accident by her
carelessness.

Recumbents are very low to the ground and would be easy to miss with a
quick glance in a mirror.
The cyclist was also careless, he would have seen the vehicle stop and
would know that the likelihood is that a door will open soon after, he
failed to allow enough room or stopping distance to avoid the
possibility, his machine was of such a type and in such poor condition
that he left it all too late to slow, stop or otherwise avoid the
obvious obstacle.

"a quick glance"!?
Unlike you, I look *very* carefully before opening my car doors.
She was to blame, unless you strangely consider that the accident
would've happened even if she hadn't opened the door?
She opened her door carelessly, resulting in his death.
How you can side with her is beyond me.

The report is of an inquest hearing.

Has there been a magistrates' or Crown court hearing brought by the police?

Hold the replies. I have now seen that paragraph.