Bike Brand In The News

On Mar 4, 9:12*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:


We love to snicker about this stuff, but if a trademark owner does not
police its mark -- it's gone. For some brands, that's where all the
value lies because the product itself is not patentable, e.g. Bandaid,
Kleenex, etc. *Trek is in a tough spot.

Trek put themselves in that tight spot by their choice of their
name.

I know the ex-owner of a large bike company. When he was still in
charge and I was visiting along with some friends, he explained that
he was going to have to change the company name. That was despite the
fact that it was rapidly growing and the ten-year-old name was well
recognized. He said his lawyers explained the old name was
indefensible as a trademark.

So Bike Warehouse became Bike Nashbar. AFAIK, they never had to sue
any wineries or furniture manufacturers.

- Frank Krygowski

On Mar 4, 7:05*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Mar 4, 9:12*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:



We love to snicker about this stuff, but if a trademark owner does not
police its mark -- it's gone. For some brands, that's where all the
value lies because the product itself is not patentable, e.g. Bandaid,
Kleenex, etc. *Trek is in a tough spot.

Trek put themselves in that tight spot by their choice of their
name.

I know the ex-owner of a large bike company. *When he was still in
charge and I was visiting along with some friends, he explained that
he was going to have to change the company name. *That was despite the
fact that it was rapidly growing and the ten-year-old name was well
recognized. *He said his lawyers explained the old name was
indefensible as a trademark.

So Bike Warehouse became Bike Nashbar. *AFAIK, they never had to sue
any wineries or furniture manufacturers.

What if it were Schwinn wine or Cervelo Wine or Orbea Wine -- or
Trader Joe's bikes? One could easily conclude the respective products
have the sponsorship of Schwinn, Cervelo, Orbea and Trader Joe's. I
mean really, it's not as simple as you make it sound. Cross-branding
is a huge money maker -- Eddie Bauer Ford Expedition, LL Bean Subaru
Forester, etc. People pay to use the tradenames of high-cachet
manufactuers on their own products.-- Jay Beattie.

Jay Beattie wrote:
On Mar 4, 7:05 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Mar 4, 9:12 pm, Jay Beattie wrote:



We love to snicker about this stuff, but if a trademark owner does not
police its mark -- it's gone. For some brands, that's where all the
value lies because the product itself is not patentable, e.g. Bandaid,
Kleenex, etc. Trek is in a tough spot.
Trek put themselves in that tight spot by their choice of their
name.

I know the ex-owner of a large bike company. When he was still in
charge and I was visiting along with some friends, he explained that
he was going to have to change the company name. That was despite the
fact that it was rapidly growing and the ten-year-old name was well
recognized. He said his lawyers explained the old name was
indefensible as a trademark.

So Bike Warehouse became Bike Nashbar. AFAIK, they never had to sue
any wineries or furniture manufacturers.

What if it were Schwinn wine or Cervelo Wine or Orbea Wine -- or
Trader Joe's bikes? One could easily conclude the respective products
have the sponsorship of Schwinn, Cervelo, Orbea and Trader Joe's. I
mean really, it's not as simple as you make it sound. Cross-branding
is a huge money maker -- Eddie Bauer Ford Expedition, LL Bean Subaru
Forester, etc. People pay to use the tradenames of high-cachet
manufactuers on their own products.-- Jay Beattie.

What of the excellent wine, Masi:
http://www.masi.it/


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Jay Beattie wrote:

What if it were Schwinn wine or Cervelo Wine or Orbea Wine -- or
Trader Joe's bikes? One could easily conclude the respective products
have the sponsorship of Schwinn, Cervelo, Orbea and Trader Joe's.

But those names are not also English words used in the company name or
in product names.

There used to be Trek skis, a company that existed long before Trek
bicycle, and they didn't sue Trek bicycle even though it might be
reasonable to assume that the two were related. It's better to make up a
name for your company and your products that is so unique that no one
could copy it without it being clear that they were stealing your trademark.

I remember talking to Arnie Nashbar at a trade show back when he was
changing the name of Bike Warehouse to Bike Nashbar. I told him the name
sounded ridiculous, but he was concerned about other companies using
"warehouse" in their name, and even though he could prevail if they
copied the name (or used "bicycle" instead of "bike), if they used
something like Velocipede Warehouse he'd be out of luck.

Trek just had some over-zealous lawyers that foolishly went after a
company that they expected would capitulate out of fear.

On 5 Mar, 06:27, AMuzi wrote:
What of the excellent wine, Masi:http://www.masi.it/

Hold it!
That's the producer of the finest Amarone, one of my favorite wines.
As everyone would agree, biking and drinking are complementary.
Hand in hand.
No conflict possible.

Sergio
Pisa

In article ,
SMS wrote:

Tom Sherman °_° wrote:
SMS aka Steven M. Scharf wrote:
[...]
Reminds me of a friend I had that worked for Computerland.
Computerland sued Businessland, claiming they had rights to the word
"land". The judge throwing out the lawsuit asked the lawyers, "who are
you going to sue next, Disneyland?"

Or the State of Maryland.


Or Launderland.

Or Woody Guthrie.

On Mar 4, 9:36*pm, SMS wrote:
Jay Beattie wrote:
What if it were Schwinn wine or Cervelo Wine or Orbea Wine -- or
Trader Joe's bikes? One could easily conclude the respective products
have the sponsorship of Schwinn, Cervelo, Orbea and Trader Joe's.

But those names are not also English words used in the company name or
in product names.

There used to be Trek skis, a company that existed long before Trek
bicycle, and they didn't sue Trek bicycle even though it might be
reasonable to assume that the two were related. It's better to make up a
name for your company and your products that is so unique that no one
could copy it without it being clear that they were stealing your trademark.


Trak skis. I owned a pair -- first fish scale bottoms and a modest
improvement over snow shoes. Karhu bought the name.

I remember talking to Arnie Nashbar at a trade show back when he was
changing the name of Bike Warehouse to Bike Nashbar. I told him the name
sounded ridiculous, but he was concerned about other companies using
"warehouse" in their name, and even though he could prevail if they
copied the name (or used "bicycle" instead of "bike), if they used
something like Velocipede Warehouse he'd be out of luck.

Trek just had some over-zealous lawyers that foolishly went after a
company that they expected would capitulate out of fear.

I'm sure they are entirely evil, and that you know more about
intellectual property than they do. -- Jay Beattie.

Jay Beattie wrote:

I'm sure they are entirely evil, and that you know more about
intellectual property than they do. -- Jay Beattie.

Since the lawsuit was thrown out, apparently I do. Their lawyers didn't
even know where to file the lawsuit!

I doubt if they'll re-file. They've gotten enough bad publicity from
this. They need to move on and find someone else to sue about something
else. I heard that they've narrowed it down to two choices:

1. The town of Madone in Italy.
2. Madonna, because Madonna is Madone in French.

On Mar 5, 8:21*am, SMS wrote:
Jay Beattie wrote:
I'm sure they are entirely evil, and that you know more about
intellectual property than they do. -- Jay Beattie.

Since the lawsuit was thrown out, apparently I do. Their lawyers didn't
even know where to file the lawsuit!

Have you ever had to chose jurisdiction or venue? Do you know
anything about federal jurisdiction or patent law? Do you know
anything about Trek Winery's forum contacts with Wisconsin? The court
issue a thoughtful, fifteen page opinion outlining the jurisdictional
issues. Have you read that? Since when can you say that the lawyers
"didn't even know where to file the lawsuit!"

This is the problem with sound-bites and Usenet experts: everything
gets reduced to some simplistic assumed "truth" and the actual truth
is never known, because it is not sexy or humerous or even understood.
-- Jay Beattie.

PS -- the order of dismissal without prejudice was signed 3/2. It's a
little early to predict whether Trek will refile.

On Mar 4, 10:33*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Mar 4, 7:05*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:


... his lawyers explained the old name was
indefensible as a trademark.

So Bike Warehouse became Bike Nashbar. *AFAIK, they never had to sue
any wineries or furniture manufacturers.

What if it were Schwinn wine or Cervelo Wine or Orbea Wine -- or
Trader Joe's bikes? One could easily conclude the respective products
have the sponsorship of Schwinn, Cervelo, Orbea and Trader Joe's.

The difference is, Schwinn and Cervelo and Orbea and "Trader Joe" are
not already words in common use.

People were going on bicycle treks long before there was a bicycle
named Trek. Trek's choice of name was as smart as, say, naming a wine
company "Grape."

- Frank Krygowski