which torque wrench?

"Mike Causer" wrote in message
newsan.2006.08.29.21.56.45.611536@firstnamelastn ame.com.invalid...
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:56:05 +0100, Tony Raven wrote:


I think the phrase coined by Brandt Richards of On-One Cycles for that
level of torque says it perfectly - "******* tight"

I think I'd reserve that for things like the Mini clutch, 150lbs-ft
IIRCWLIU

Front hub bearings on some cars make that look puny...

cheers,
clive

mb wrote:

People still use taper cranks? How quaint. Hollowtech II is the way to
go.

Dura-Ace track stuff is /way/ too expensive for my liking...

--
Dave Larrington
http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk
Among the calamities of war may be jointly numbered the
diminution of the love of truth, by the falsehoods which
interest dictates and credulity encourages.

in message , mb
') wrote:

Steve Watkin wrote:

The one that normally fools me is the 14mm crank bolts because they
are pulling on to a taper it always feels like the bolt is just about
to shear!! How do you judge that?

People still use taper cranks? How quaint. Hollowtech II is the way to
go.

What's quaint about it? If it ain't broke don't fix it. People
who /don't/ use taper fit cranks have gone through half-a-dozen systems
in the last half dozen years, mainly because these 'new, improved'
systems all turn out not to work very well in one more or less serious
way or another.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

to err is human, to lisp divine
;; attributed to Kim Philby, oddly enough.

Simon Brooke wrote:
What's quaint about it? If it ain't broke don't fix it. People
who /don't/ use taper fit cranks have gone through half-a-dozen systems
in the last half dozen years, mainly because these 'new, improved'
systems all turn out not to work very well in one more or less serious
way or another.

My Hollowtech-2 cranksets (XT on the MTB and Ultegra on the fixie) are
lasting better than any square taper cranksets I ever had. Square taper
cranksets are the *only* part of any bicycle I've consistently had
problems with. They always ended up creaking and eventually coming
loose, and I've not been shy about torquing them to '*******-tight' either.

I'm sure plenty of people can point out that they haven't had problems
with square taper in how-ever-many-years, and that I must have been
doing something wrong, but why should any interface require perfect
torque / be sensitive to the amount of grease / need prayers to the
crank gods to work?

Also note that the Hollowtech-2 system has actually been around for
years (in the form of Bullseye cranks), and the only reason they've only
just become popular is the Bullseye patent has recently expired.

Anthony

wrote:
Geraint Jones wrote:

Mike Causer wrote:
[snip]

I would say that for a particularly uncalibrated adult with
expensive bike bits that a torque wrench was the way to go.

One key thing is to use the right size spanner - no not that
end you fool the other end:-) If it is light and delicate
use a light and delicate spanner/tool. Not a 1/2 drive ratchet
handle with two adaptors down to 1/4 drive and then a 2mm
allen key in the end.
Buying something cheap to play with, even just some nuts

Agreed. BTW, Screwfix do a reasonable 1/4" drive wrench with the right
sort of range for bike work.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...56832&id=29953

Peter


--
www.amey.org.uk

In article
mb wrote:
Snip
It is broke and now it's been fixed. I've had loads of problems with
taper cranks; mainly coming loose when it was supposed to be tight, or
not coming loose when I wanted the stupid things off. And mine wanted a
15mm socket for the bolts, strange size.

Yes, I have a full range of torque wrenches, copaslip, big hammers etc.

The Copaslip and hammers might explain your problems.

The whole BB concept has been improved with Hollowtech, by placing the
bearings *much* wider apart and therefore able to take a much bigger
load.

It's not about bearing strength, it's about rigidity.

No more need for miunte bearing tweaks either.

People have been using cartridge bearing BBs for at least 25 years ...

Campy users must be jealous :P

That they can easily service and adjust their bottom brackets?

In article
Anthony Jones wrote:
snip
I'm sure plenty of people can point out that they haven't had problems
with square taper in how-ever-many-years,

Hello :-)

and that I must have been doing something wrong,

Sounds like it.

but why should any interface require perfect torque

Not perfect, just well tight.

be sensitive to the amount of grease

Just wipe with a clean rag before asssembly.

need prayers to the crank gods to work?

At one time I tried invoking the deity of the bottom bracket thread, but
after a few failed attempts I found Araldite was more effective.

mb wrote:

It is broke and now it's been fixed. I've had loads of problems with
taper cranks; mainly coming loose when it was supposed to be tight, or
not coming loose when I wanted the stupid things off. And mine wanted
a 15mm socket for the bolts, strange size.

Yes, I have a full range of torque wrenches, copaslip, big hammers
etc.

The whole BB concept has been improved with Hollowtech, by placing the
bearings *much* wider apart and therefore able to take a much bigger
load. No more need for miunte bearing tweaks either.

Campy users must be jealous :P

Check out what Campy users will have next year!!:

http://www.campyonly.com/images/shorts/2006/wpe2.jpg

http://www.campyonly.com/images/rumors/2006/wpe6.jpg

http://www.campyonly.com/rumors.html

....Well, Campag double chainset users. Triples will still be old-style.
But that's alright with me really as mine work very well and do not come
loose at all or creak at all, and come off when I want them to.

~PB

Rob Morley wrote:
I'm sure plenty of people can point out that they haven't had problems
with square taper in how-ever-many-years,

Hello :-)

I knew there would be one...

but why should any interface require perfect torque

Not perfect, just well tight.

I snapped a crank bolt once (this was on initial installation too, not
messing around after the interface was mangled), so despite my weedy
arms I think I was getting them quite tight!

If people find square taper works for them, that's great -- but I'm glad
to see the back of them. Ideally I'd like to see larger diameter BB
shells rather than outboard bearings, but I'm sure that would elicit
even more moaning from the retro-grouches.

Anthony

In article
Anthony Jones wrote:
snip
I snapped a crank bolt once (this was on initial installation too, not
messing around after the interface was mangled), so despite my weedy
arms I think I was getting them quite tight!

Sounds like a manufacturing fault to me.

If people find square taper works for them, that's great -- but I'm glad
to see the back of them. Ideally I'd like to see larger diameter BB
shells rather than outboard bearings, but I'm sure that would elicit
even more moaning from the retro-grouches.

I don't have a problem with new stuff as long as I can still get bits to
fit my old-but-serviceable stuff. But I still don't see why Mavic had
to discontinue the MA2/MA40 and I don't know why anyone would want more
than 21 gears. :-)