Man needs life; instead vandalizes bike trail

Still Robert asks

Terrorism....wow...that's a pretty heavy word for digging a hole in
the ground, don't you think.

...one word for digging a hole in the ground is excavate...booby
trapping a public right of way is terrorism...

...hopefully you or nobody you care about, ever suffers a serious injury
or death at the hands of one of these sociopaths you're so willing to
defend as vandals...

Best Regards Always - Mike Baldwin

Luke wrote: Evidently Leo doesn't consider those scoundrels his friends.

Sorni wrote: Indeed (and good), but that in no way means that some people
don't do such
things.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Indeed I don't. Obviously, some people do do such things--else we wouldn't
be having this conversation. My point was not well expressed, I guess. I
was trying to say that it is not right to attribute the actions of a few to
an entire group. Michael Johnson said it much better.

Uh, what news are you reading that says anything about
'environmentalists' burning down entire developments?

=v= There was a kid who did that. He left "E.L.F." graffiti
behind. Turns out he was the disgruntled son of the local
sheriff and had no connection with any environmental groups
aside from reading about them on the Internet.

=v= There has been sabotage of dirtbike races, but there is
no evidence that it has anything to do with any environmental
group or movement. That line was peddled by a group called
the Sahara Club, which purports to be a grassroots group of
angry dirtbikers but is actually an anti-enviro group funded
by foundation money from corporations and Rev. Moon. Look up
the phrase "wise use" sometime for details.
_Jym_

"Tom Keats" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Michael Baldwin) writes:
Tom reminds me

If nobody was actually physically injured as a consequence of
Warren John Wilson's actions, it'll be much more difficult to
impugn him for assault, let alone any kind of intent.
That's just how The System works.

..you are correct...that is how The System works, but that doesn't mean
The System can't be improved...cops have taught me, most DA's only want
one thing, victory....that's how they keep their jobs...I understand the
reality of the situation...we need laws that insure Mr. Wilson's actions
and others like him are treated as acts of domestic terrorism...example,
if a bomb goes off in a trash can next to a trail head parking lot and
nobody is serious hurt by the blast, is it "just" vandalism?....

Warren John Wilson didn't do any bombing.

He's more of an Ernest T. Bass than a Timothy McVeigh.

It is unjust to demand an eye for a tooth.
A tooth will be sufficient. The punishment
/must/ be proportional to the offense. And
it must be well-considered, and not a knee-jerk
reaction.

There's a danger (or two or three) in playing the
"terrorism" card so off-handedly.

And vandalism isn't "just" vandalism. It's a
serious charge.

Agreed, but it seems too bad that he's only getting one count. I realize it
may be difficult, or impossible, for them to win a conviction for 50
offenses, esp when they caught him red-handed with apparently only one.

brink

Tom Keats wrote:
In article ,
(Michael Baldwin) writes:
Tom says

Up here, Warren John Wilson's ass would be grass.
..our three pillars of democracy are crumbling...the forementioned
person should be charged with assault with intent to maim or kill...

The "forementioned person's" name is Warren John Wilson
and will be forever known as such....

Are you sure it is not an alias for He Who Must Not Be Named?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people." A. Derleth

On Jan 6, 9:38 pm, (Michael Baldwin) wrote:
Still Robert asks

Terrorism....wow...that's a pretty heavy word for digging a hole in
the ground, don't you think.

..one word for digging a hole in the ground is excavate...booby
trapping a public right of way is terrorism...

..hopefully you or nobody you care about, ever suffers a serious injury
or death at the hands of one of these sociopaths you're so willing to
defend as vandals...

I am not defending this criminal. I was the one who pointed out that
intent to injure large numbers of cyclists is not vandalism. It is a
violent act. There is undoubtedly a more serious charge than vandalism
that this guy could be charged with. Vandalism is spray painting a
shop window. However, I understand the reality of the situation is
someone like this will probably make some sort of deal with the DA and
plead to a lesser charge if nobody gets hurt. If you call this guy a
'terrorist,' who's next? Why do you trust your government that much to
give them that sort of power over you and everybody.

Robert

Robert asks

If you call this guy a 'terrorist,' who's next?

Well, here's the FBI's definition;

Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or
property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population,
or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social
objectives.*

...and Robert continues

Why do you trust your government that much to give
them that sort of power over you and everybody.

...Robert, this may sound idealistic and naive but I believe that "we
the people", is a government founded in the faith and trust of my fellow
man...and I'm a Libertarian who also believes that the reward of freedom
is responsibility...the three pillars of our democracy are only as
strong as the people whom they serve...that's why I'm suggesting Mr.
Potholer should be charge by the DA with committing an act of
terrorism...(ref. FBI def.)

Robert, you're an accomplished debater and I Thank You for broadening my
horizons, take care and best regards always.

Sincerely - Mike Baldwin

"Michael Baldwin" wrote: (clip) that's why I'm suggesting Mr.
Potholer should be charge by the DA with committing an act of
terrorism...(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Words like "terrorism" and "genocide" had original meanings that stemmed
from horrible practices for which there were no adequate terms. Things like
suicide bombing and mass poisoning. If you start to apply the term to
things like disruption of trail use, you dilute the language, and lessen our
ability to communicate.

Michael Baldwin wrote:

Well, here's the FBI's definition;

Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or
property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population,
or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social
objectives.

So, since you are willing to take that definition at face value--

Would you call it terrorism for a vigilante to beat up a drug dealer,
for the purpose of sending a message to the other local drug dealers?
Because this definition you have provided does that. And I think it's
overreaching.

We already have terms and definitions like "assault", "reckless
endangerment", "attempted homicide", "criminal mischief", "arson",
etc. And these things are already punishable by law. We don't need
to call them "terrorism" which is an intrinsically difficult thing to
define legally-- and misapplied in such cases anyway.

Chalo

ZBicyclist wrote:
: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nation...ml?source=mypi

: FULLERTON, Calif. -- Police said they arrested a man who acknowledged
: digging holes on a park bike trail as payback for nearly being run down by a
: cyclist.

: Warren John Wilson, 52, faces a single felony count of vandalism, police
: Sgt. Linda King said Friday.

: King said nearly 50 holes measuring about 1 foot by 2 feet have been found
: since June along a trail at Laguna Lake Park, and in some cases attempts had
: been made to hide them from cyclists. She said some riders went over their
: handlebars after hitting the holes, but none reported major injuries.

Hmmm, who would have thought... we did a map of the dirt trails at Busse
Woods a decade or more ago and marked what we thought were crossruts.. that
is ruts running across the trail, often covered by grass, that were wide
enough to swallow our front tire... we hit the turf many times there...

http://www.chicagopaddling.org/busse.gif

--
John Nelson
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