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about f'ing time (bike rule enforcement)



 
 
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  #151  
Old August 28th 08, 05:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,511
Default about f'ing time (bike rule enforcement)

On Aug 28, 1:22*am, Brent P
wrote:
On 2008-08-28, Frank Krygowski wrote:


I think my friends who are writing teachers would be splashing red ink
all over your page!


If it were might fault you wouldn't be doing this sort of thing
repeatedly with multiple people who aren't 100% in agreement with you.


:-) Did you _purposely_ write that sentence in response to my
"writing teachers" remark? If so, thank you!

AFAIK, there is nothing in the U.S. Constitution enumerating driving
as a right.


Damn you are ignorant and the training has boxed your thinking in.
People are told that rights are all enumerated in the constitution, that
if it is not there, it is not a right. The big problem with that is it
is absolutely FALSE. People believe it because they are too lazy to
actually READ the USC and understand the history behind it. It is absurd
to thing that the constitution enumerates all our rights.


:-) You're having a problem with binary thinking. Specifically,
you're unable to perform it when it's required.

Q: Is there anything in the U.S. Constitution enumerating driving as
a right?

A: No.

Q: Does the Constitution's mention of other, non-enumerated rights
prove that driving is a right?

A: No.

Q: Do any countries, states or territories legally consider driving a
right?

A: No. At least, none that I know of.

Those three facts leave your arguments ragged and blowing in the
wind. Drop the idea that driving is a right. It's the kind of thing
a spoiled teenager would say.

Failure to pay child support is not merely a private debt, nor a civil
matter. *It's violation of the law, in every state I know about. *That
makes it a criminal matter.


Maybe you really are stupid. I just may be giving you too much credit.
Debts from one person to another are civil matters and should be civil
matters. The fact that government decides to make it criminal matter in
the case of child support is simply wrong.


Your attitude would astonishes me, except that it's consistent.

Irresponsible young men (boys, really) frequently think their supposed
"right to drive" is sacred, no matter what they do.

Irresponsible young men (boys, really) also frequently think their
recreational rolls in the hay should have no consequences. And
irresponsible older men who abandon families and avoid supporting
their own children are worse, far worse.

Our society and our laws consider child support evasion to be a
crime. Your defense of these scumbags, and your attempt to paint this
as nothing more than a little private matter, is reprehensible.

Driving is a privilege.


Then we don't live in a free country.


Not according to the anarchist fringe, we don't.

Sorry you're so troubled by the rule of law in a democracy. Can I
make a suggestion?

There are plenty of places in the world where anarchy is in effect.
You've got your pick of third world hot spots, where governments are
so weak that they can't keep control. Take your pick and move to one
for a while. But you'll need to take some friends with you.

You'll probably find that an official driver's license isn't needed at
all. Permission from a local warlord, perhaps, but no license. And
disrespecting the local boss will have no consequences, provided you
and your buddies are numerous enough and armed well enough to put
together some serious intimidation. IOW, don't take just a pea
shooter.

Me, I prefer civilization. And I prefer to shun foolish anarchy fans
who haven't progressed beyond high school machismo social attitudes.

So goodbye, Brent.

- Frank Krygowski
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  #152  
Old August 28th 08, 06:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Brent P
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 622
Default about f'ing time (bike rule enforcement)

On 2008-08-28, Frank Krygowski wrote:

:-) Did you _purposely_ write that sentence in response to my
"writing teachers" remark? If so, thank you!


You make it quite obvious what your purpose on usenet is.

AFAIK, there is nothing in the U.S. Constitution enumerating driving
as a right.


Damn you are ignorant and the training has boxed your thinking in.
People are told that rights are all enumerated in the constitution, that
if it is not there, it is not a right. The big problem with that is it
is absolutely FALSE. People believe it because they are too lazy to
actually READ the USC and understand the history behind it. It is absurd
to thing that the constitution enumerates all our rights.


:-) You're having a problem with binary thinking. Specifically,
you're unable to perform it when it's required.


Q: Is there anything in the U.S. Constitution enumerating driving as
a right?

A: No.

Q: Does the Constitution's mention of other, non-enumerated rights
prove that driving is a right?

A: No.

Q: Do any countries, states or territories legally consider driving a
right?

A: No. At least, none that I know of.

Those three facts leave your arguments ragged and blowing in the
wind. Drop the idea that driving is a right. It's the kind of thing
a spoiled teenager would say.


More dishonesty (well maybe idiotcy) from Frank. Again, my argument is
that government in the USA is not to be a grantor of privilege because
it undermines the principles upon which this nation was founded. What
you post above does nothing to counter that argument.

Failure to pay child support is not merely a private debt, nor a civil
matter. *It's violation of the law, in every state I know about. *That
makes it a criminal matter.


Maybe you really are stupid. I just may be giving you too much credit.
Debts from one person to another are civil matters and should be civil
matters. The fact that government decides to make it criminal matter in
the case of child support is simply wrong.


Your attitude would astonishes me, except that it's consistent.


My attitude? You mean not bending over and kissing your ass when you
insult me?

Irresponsible young men (boys, really) frequently think their supposed
"right to drive" is sacred, no matter what they do.


Again, I have not argued a "right to drive". I've argued against
government granted privilege. Are you dishonest or just stupid Frank?

Irresponsible young men (boys, really) also frequently think their
recreational rolls in the hay should have no consequences. And
irresponsible older men who abandon families and avoid supporting
their own children are worse, far worse.


Who said anything about removing responsibility? Not I. In fact I've
stated quite the opposite.

Our society and our laws consider child support evasion to be a
crime. Your defense of these scumbags, and your attempt to paint this
as nothing more than a little private matter, is reprehensible.


More dishonesty from Frank. Cannot you not put forth a rational argument
for government to be a grantor of privilege? Why must you go this
dishonest route of accusing me of defending 'scumbags'? When you give
government power such as being the grantor of privilege and expect it to
forever only use that power on 'bad people' you are a fool. Government
will expand this power by various means including increasing its
definition of who are 'bad people'. It will also use the existance of
'bad people' to insert itself into the lives of 'good people'.

Driving is a privilege.


Then we don't live in a free country.


Not according to the anarchist fringe, we don't.


Not according to anyone with the ability to think.

Sorry you're so troubled by the rule of law in a democracy. Can I
make a suggestion?


This is not a democracy. Maybe you really are stupid.

There are plenty of places in the world where anarchy is in effect.


There are none. There plenty of places where tyrants rule. Places where
governments a tryannies. I know of no nation where there is not some
form of government causing problems. You are probably confusing anarchy
with chaos. For instance, once interfering government bodies pulled out
of somilia, things began to get better without government. That came to
an end when government was again imposed with the barrel of a gun. Now
it's back to various factions fighting it out for control.

You've got your pick of third world hot spots, where governments are
so weak that they can't keep control. Take your pick and move to one
for a while. But you'll need to take some friends with you.


Why do you want to bring their form of government here? Where government
licensed thugs run amuck, where government interferes with every aspect
of life to the point where nobody can do anything without being granted
privileges by the government? Where criminals have infested government
because the government is criminal? The result of governments being in
such control that they grant privileges for just about everything is
poverty, criminality, death. Why do you want to go down that road?

If I want to live in a third world country all I need to do is sit here
and wait, do nothing. Never say a word.

You'll probably find that an official driver's license isn't needed at
all. Permission from a local warlord, perhaps, but no license. And
disrespecting the local boss will have no consequences, provided you
and your buddies are numerous enough and armed well enough to put
together some serious intimidation. IOW, don't take just a pea
shooter.


Disrespecting the local boss. That's right here in the US Frank. Let me
tell you my last run in with a local government thug. I was biking on a
residential street. Speed limit was 25mph. The speedo on my bike read
25mph. I had taken the lane, slightly right of center. I was approaching
a stop sign. To my left a double yellow line. I was going to make a left
turn. A car comes up from behind me accelerating. Passes within two feet
of me (IL law requires 3ft) over the double yellow, at about 30mph. I
sound my horn. The driver cuts in front of me and stops short. I begin
to go around. The passenger side door opens into my path, I dodge. I
stop at the stop sign. Man gets out with a badge. Tells me I have to
ride in the gutter and yield to cars, because I'm on a bicycle. I tell
him to read the vehicle code. He goes on. He threatens me. I tell him to
read the vehicle code. He goes back to the car. He calls me an asshole
and they drive off.

These are the sort of people you want to empower Frank. How do you think
the third world got the way it is? It's because the government is
criminal and filled with thugs who excerise power as they wish. Do you
really want government to have that sort of power and then have some
bicycle hating thug rise to the top?


Me, I prefer civilization.


I am the one that prefers civilization, you prefer government force that
agrees with you. You want to impose your will on others by coercision of
the state. That is not civilized, it's savage. That's what the third
world is, where people such as yourself got total control.

And I prefer to shun foolish anarchy fans
who haven't progressed beyond high school machismo social attitudes.

So goodbye, Brent.


Another promise you'll break.
  #153  
Old August 28th 08, 06:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Chicago Paddling-Fishing
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default about f'ing time (bike rule enforcement)

In chi.general Frank Krygowski wrote:
snipHmm. I guess I misunderstood. When you referred to "a natural right
to travel by whatever means they wish," I thought you meant "a natural
right to travel by whatever means they wish."


There was constitutional licensing restrictions on the original colonists as
far as if they chose to travel by horse, canoe or other form of transportation.

Improvements over time to those basic forms of transportation have given
way to the car and the motorboat. The horse gave way to the horseless carriage,
and that to the modern automobile...

But you are saying travel by car should be treated as a natural right,
aren't you? Despite the fact that no society I know of has proclaimed
that to be a right.


In the U.S., merchandise shipped for interstate commerce is treated that way
but the methods of transportation, as of yet are not...

--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)
  #154  
Old August 28th 08, 08:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Brent P
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 622
Default about f'ing time (bike rule enforcement)

On 2008-08-28, Phil W Lee phil wrote:
Brent P considered Thu, 28 Aug
2008 00:22:06 -0500 the perfect time to write:

Some people like being a slave or at least forever a child and doesn't
like it when someone challenges the limited thinking that allows them
to be happy as such.


And some people are detached from reality.


An amusing come back. However I'd much prefer a reasoned argument.

I've yet to hear a reasoned argument in this thread for government being
a grantor of privilege. Try it. You'll notice the arguments sound a good
deal like those for a king or a dictator or some other form of
government that in its published ideals is one that leads and takes care
of the people.



  #155  
Old August 28th 08, 10:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Chicago Paddling-Fishing
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default about f'ing time (bike rule enforcement)

In chi.general Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:
On 2008-08-26, Cydrome Leader wrote:
In chi.general Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:
On 2008-08-25, Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:

What I might need is that flashlight they were selling at Costco a while
back, sort of looked like the search becon off a tug boat... while it
might be blinding for many, they probably wouldn't pull out in front of me
fearing I was a semi... (I'm not planning on getting it... one has to
pay attention when riding at night, just because you're on a main street
doesn't mean cars on side streets will respect your right-of-way...)

Or just buy a real light from Busch & M?ller. They're pricey, but mine makes
me look like a motorcycle, and doesn't blind oncoming traffic in the process.


and looking like a motorcycle does?


Keeps motorists from underestimating my speed and pulling out (or turning) in
front of me. Especially useful for those 30 mph descents into the Fox Valley,
but I've noticed an almost total elimination of this behavior on virtually
every road I ride.


Hey, what's your top speed?

Crossing the state near Spring Valley I hit 34.6 in a 30 zone (down a hill
between Peru and Spring Valley. At that speed I could no longer pedal fast
enough to engage the wheel.

--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)
  #156  
Old August 28th 08, 10:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Chicago Paddling-Fishing
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default about f'ing time (bike rule enforcement)

In chi.general Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:
On 2008-08-26, Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:

A illuminated wide surface area is whats needed so that drivers can separate
the real lights from the reflections off automobile and other surfaces that
the overhead lights reflect off...


This is exactly what I get from my B&M light; you don't need a huge light,
you need proper optics that put out a lot of light, in the right locations.
And you need to be prepared to pay for quality.


Send me a url... maybe it's time to retire my planetbike blinkies but i'm not
convinced it'll actually seem bright in the city... riding down forest avenue
in oak park i'm about as bright as anything else on the road, but on Kedzie
or Pulaski I'm close to invisible due to the overhead lighting...


--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)
  #157  
Old August 28th 08, 11:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Brent P
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 622
Default about f'ing time (bike rule enforcement)

On 2008-08-28, Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:
In chi.general Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:
On 2008-08-26, Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:

A illuminated wide surface area is whats needed so that drivers can separate
the real lights from the reflections off automobile and other surfaces that
the overhead lights reflect off...


This is exactly what I get from my B&M light; you don't need a huge light,
you need proper optics that put out a lot of light, in the right locations.
And you need to be prepared to pay for quality.


Send me a url... maybe it's time to retire my planetbike blinkies but i'm not
convinced it'll actually seem bright in the city... riding down forest avenue
in oak park i'm about as bright as anything else on the road, but on Kedzie
or Pulaski I'm close to invisible due to the overhead lighting...


This is what I use:
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...tegory_ID=4320

There is another version made for other retailers that is brighter and
costs more. The sale price is pretty much the always price. The one
annoyance is that it doesn't have a smart charger, so I have to use a
timer for it. Even cheap re-chargable flashlights from target (made in
china) have smart chargers these days.




  #158  
Old August 28th 08, 11:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Geoff Gass
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default about f'ing time (bike rule enforcement)

Brent P wrote:
On 2008-08-28, Phil W Lee phil wrote:
Brent P considered Thu, 28 Aug
2008 00:22:06 -0500 the perfect time to write:

Some people like being a slave or at least forever a child and doesn't
like it when someone challenges the limited thinking that allows them
to be happy as such.


And some people are detached from reality.


An amusing come back. However I'd much prefer a reasoned argument.


why? you're not capable of one, why should anyone give you one?
  #159  
Old August 29th 08, 12:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Kristian M Zoerhoff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 472
Default about f'ing time (bike rule enforcement)

On 2008-08-28, Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:
In chi.general Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:
On 2008-08-26, Cydrome Leader wrote:
In chi.general Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:
On 2008-08-25, Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:

What I might need is that flashlight they were selling at Costco a while
back, sort of looked like the search becon off a tug boat... while it
might be blinding for many, they probably wouldn't pull out in front of me
fearing I was a semi... (I'm not planning on getting it... one has to
pay attention when riding at night, just because you're on a main street
doesn't mean cars on side streets will respect your right-of-way...)

Or just buy a real light from Busch & M?ller. They're pricey, but mine makes
me look like a motorcycle, and doesn't blind oncoming traffic in the process.

and looking like a motorcycle does?


Keeps motorists from underestimating my speed and pulling out (or turning) in
front of me. Especially useful for those 30 mph descents into the Fox Valley,
but I've noticed an almost total elimination of this behavior on virtually
every road I ride.


Hey, what's your top speed?


Close to 40, if you count downhills. On flats, a touch over 30. My normal cruising
speed is close to 20 mph, if I'm not fighting headwinds.

Crossing the state near Spring Valley I hit 34.6 in a 30 zone (down a hill
between Peru and Spring Valley. At that speed I could no longer pedal fast
enough to engage the wheel.


You're top gear's not big enough :-) I have a 52x12 that should be good to 45+
down a long enough hill.


--

Kristian Zoerhoff

  #160  
Old August 29th 08, 12:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Kristian M Zoerhoff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 472
Default about f'ing time (bike rule enforcement)

On 2008-08-28, Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:
In chi.general Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:
On 2008-08-26, Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:

A illuminated wide surface area is whats needed so that drivers can separate
the real lights from the reflections off automobile and other surfaces that
the overhead lights reflect off...


This is exactly what I get from my B&M light; you don't need a huge light,
you need proper optics that put out a lot of light, in the right locations.
And you need to be prepared to pay for quality.


Send me a url... maybe it's time to retire my planetbike blinkies but i'm not
convinced it'll actually seem bright in the city... riding down forest avenue
in oak park i'm about as bright as anything else on the road, but on Kedzie
or Pulaski I'm close to invisible due to the overhead lighting...


http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/headlights.asp

There are other B&M dealers in the states, but I got mine from Peter. Scroll
down that page to the Ixon IQ Speed to get an idea of the beam pattern.
I've ridden through Greektown, up Elston, and on Pulaski with mine and not felt
washed out.

For my taillight, I still use a PlanetBike SuperFlash, and I have a pair of
auxiliary Blinky3's as backup, and for foggy/rainy conditions.


--

Kristian Zoerhoff

 




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