about focking time (bike rule enforcement)

In chi.general Brent P wrote:
snip
A guy could get three forms of ID, photocopy them for his records and
still go to prison.

I bought a car from a guy who insisted on photocopying my DL (I think I was
18 or 19 at the time) saying he had sold a van to a kid who turned out to
be underage. Apparently the kid trashed the van and then the parent forced him
to take the van back because he shouldn't have sold it to an underage kid
in the first place and they wouldn't pay for repairs to the van...

--
John Nelson
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On 2008-09-05, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sep 5, 12:41*am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Brent P wrote:

I read a news story (via fark.com) where this girl 14-15 years old was
going around saying she was 19 (complete with myspace page) and having
sex with guys in their early 20s. Picture in the article didn't show
what looked like a 15 year old girl, but at the very least a 19 year old
by appearance. She's put two guys in prison already.
...

A guy could get three forms of ID, photocopy them for his records and
still go to prison.

But hey, that is all right with the fundies, since they would make any
sex besides that solely for procreation between married couples illegal.

Funny thing, but those aren't the kind of incidents I read about in
our newspapers. Instead, our newspaper reporters have written
articles about a 30 year old live in boyfriend who molested his
girlfriend's daughter. Or an 18 year old kid who molested two little
cousins. Or 40+ year old guys meeting 16 year old girls online and
luring them to motels. Or a local law enforcement officer's sting
operation, in which he pretends to be a young girl online, and has
caught three different middle-aged men who thought they were going to
have sex with a 14 year old.

Because the mainstream media always gives us an unbiased and accurate
picture... *snort*

BTW, 16 years old is the age of consent in much of the nation and world.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...of_Consent.png

Damned fundamentalists! Imagine depriving little kids of all that
fun, eh?

Dishonest as ever I see.

What was being discussed was the use of the power of the state, as in
the government. People use examples like shown on dateline NBC 'to catch
a predator' in order to justify government power and to use the violence
of the state as a tool to control others. Look at what elections are in
this country now... it's the choice between controllers instead of
public servants.

The state doesn't care about protecting little girls, the state uses
your desire to protect little girls to expand its power over everyone
and put more people under it's fist. Hell, many of those people who are
a threat to the little boys and girls work in service of the state. Sure
they'll charge and convict a few real criminals that were chargable
under the existing law, but with their new get-tough policies and tool
laws they can ruin the life of the perfectly normal neighbor boy who had
sex with HS sweetheart or destroy the life of a 22yr old who thought he
was dating a 20 year old. And that's the real power, that's what the
state wants. The more behavior that becomes criminal the more its power
expands. It also has a chilling effect between people. People don't get
together as much, don't talk to each other as much. You never know who
will tattle on you to the government's police. Under these conditions
both the criminals and the state (I may be redundant here) thrive.

Just ask those guys at Duke and their coach about how government is all
fair and out to protect the little girls... lol. Or maybe you missed how
that one turned out in the end when the truth actually came out? Makes
one wonder how many times the truth never comes out, doesn't it?

On Sep 5, 11:26*am, Brent P
wrote:
On 2008-09-05, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Sep 5, 12:41*am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
But hey, that is all right with the fundies, since they would make any
sex besides that solely for procreation between married couples illegal.

Funny thing, but those aren't the kind of incidents I read about in
our newspapers. *Instead, our newspaper reporters have written
articles about a 30 year old live in boyfriend who molested his
girlfriend's daughter. *Or an 18 year old kid who molested two little
cousins. *Or 40+ year old guys meeting 16 year old girls online and
luring them to motels. *Or a local law enforcement officer's sting
operation, in which he pretends to be a young girl online, and has
caught three different middle-aged men who thought they were going to
have sex with a 14 year old.

Damned fundamentalists! *Imagine depriving little kids of all that
fun, eh?

What was being discussed was the use of the power of the state, as in
the government...

That's what was being discussed by a boy known for whining about any
of his desires or whims being restricted. I was discussing child
abuse... and _hoping_ that's not another of your whims.

The state doesn't care about protecting little girls, the state uses
your desire to protect little girls to expand its power over everyone
and put more people under it's fist.

By that, I judge that you don't have kids.

Just ask those guys at Duke and their coach about how government is all
fair and out to protect the little girls... lol.

If you can't tell the difference between an adult, on-call stripper
and an underage child, you're completely hopeless.

- Frank Krygowski

On 2008-09-05, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sep 5, 11:26*am, Brent P
wrote:
On 2008-09-05, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Sep 5, 12:41*am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
But hey, that is all right with the fundies, since they would make any
sex besides that solely for procreation between married couples illegal.

Funny thing, but those aren't the kind of incidents I read about in
our newspapers. *Instead, our newspaper reporters have written
articles about a 30 year old live in boyfriend who molested his
girlfriend's daughter. *Or an 18 year old kid who molested two little
cousins. *Or 40+ year old guys meeting 16 year old girls online and
luring them to motels. *Or a local law enforcement officer's sting
operation, in which he pretends to be a young girl online, and has
caught three different middle-aged men who thought they were going to
have sex with a 14 year old.

Damned fundamentalists! *Imagine depriving little kids of all that
fun, eh?

What was being discussed was the use of the power of the state, as in
the government...

That's what was being discussed by a boy known for whining about any
of his desires or whims being restricted. I was discussing child
abuse... and _hoping_ that's not another of your whims.

Still the dishonest and insulting Frank. I'm sorry for you and your
inability to either read or be honest. None of which changes the fact
you're consistantly wrong. You have a control freak view of traffic and
roads and my beliefs parallel those of traffic engineers like Hans
Monderman. Too bad for you that Monderman's ideas where tried are safer,
more pleasant, and have less congestion despite greater traffic volumes
than before they were tried. But hey, you stick with those speed bumps,
humps and whatever.

The state doesn't care about protecting little girls, the state uses
your desire to protect little girls to expand its power over everyone
and put more people under it's fist.

By that, I judge that you don't have kids.

That is irrelevant to the fact that government uses those emotions
against people. Nor is it an excuse for falling for it.

Just ask those guys at Duke and their coach about how government is all
fair and out to protect the little girls... lol.

If you can't tell the difference between an adult, on-call stripper
and an underage child, you're completely hopeless.

Let me put your typical dishonest bull**** presentation aside....
You don't get out much do you Frank? Some girls and some women can look
vastly older or younger than they really do. You really should try
getting out in the world. Even without the chemicals of today
women/girls have been doing this for well forever.

On Sep 4, 10:18*pm, Brent P
wrote:
On 2008-09-05, Bob wrote:





On Sep 4, 6:19?pm, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Bob Hunt wrote:
On Sep 3, 8:59 pm, Tom Sherman
wrote:

Is not the "state" always the complainant in criminal cases (at least in
systems based on English Common Law)? How else could we have cases where
the so called victim is compelled to testify?

Not unless the State was the victim. The State is the *prosecutor*.
The victim is always the victim. The sole exception to that is in
homicide cases and that is only because the complainant is unable to
testify. Can a victim- other than a murder victim- be compelled to
testify? Yes, but only as a material witness and that happens so
rarely it doesn't merit discussion.

What about statutory sex crimes? Often the "victim" consented, and was
morally able to make consent (and the act was only illegal due to
fundies making the laws).
Are you referring to statutory sex crimes like when a caretaker
sexually assaults the 9 yr old child in their care? Or when a 35 year
old man engages in sexual conduct with the 13 yr old daughter of his
live-in girlfriend? Or just the 50 year old man that carries on
numerous love affairs with pre-teenaged boys? Those are the types of
so-called statutory sex crimes that I've seen prosecuted, and yes, the
victim is still the victim regardless of whether anyone thinks they
are "morally able to grant consent". Those damned fundamentalists! How
dare they make such acts crimes? The kid *wanted* it. At least that is
what all the offenders I've arrested have told me.
You really should stop trying quite so hard to be contrarian. It can
lead you into- to use one of your favorite adjectives- morally
indefensible positions.

LOL. figured you go that route. He's refering to the 19 year old who has
consentual sex with a 16.9 year old who told him she was 18. It's pretty
obvious if you read the entire paragraph he wrote.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I "went that route" because those types of cases represent the
overwhelming majority of statutory sex crimes that are prosecuted.
Each example I used was an actual case I or one of my partners
investigated. Do either you or Tom Sherman have any direct knowledge
of any 19 yr old boys in any State who were arrested for having
consentual sex with girls under the age of 17 or can you site
verifiable news/court records of same? I say any State because
unless:

a) there was force used or
b) the 19 yr old held a position of trust over that 16.9 yr old or
c) they were members of the same immediate family

under Illinois law no crime was committed. You can look it up if you
like. I'll even make it easy for you. The statutes you'd be looking
for are ILCS 720 5/12-13, ILCS 720 5/12-14, ILCS 720 5/12-14.1, ILCS
720 5/12-15, and ILCS 720 5/12-16.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

On Sep 5, 10:26*am, Brent P
wrote:
On 2008-09-05, Frank Krygowski wrote:





On Sep 5, 12:41*am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Brent P wrote:

I read a news story (via fark.com) where this girl 14-15 years old was
going around saying she was 19 (complete with myspace page) and having
sex with guys in their early 20s. Picture in the article didn't show
what looked like a 15 year old girl, but at the very least a 19 year old
by appearance. She's put two guys in prison already.
...

A guy could get three forms of ID, photocopy them for his records and
still go to prison.

But hey, that is all right with the fundies, since they would make any
sex besides that solely for procreation between married couples illegal.

Funny thing, but those aren't the kind of incidents I read about in
our newspapers. *Instead, our newspaper reporters have written
articles about a 30 year old live in boyfriend who molested his
girlfriend's daughter. *Or an 18 year old kid who molested two little
cousins. *Or 40+ year old guys meeting 16 year old girls online and
luring them to motels. *Or a local law enforcement officer's sting
operation, in which he pretends to be a young girl online, and has
caught three different middle-aged men who thought they were going to
have sex with a 14 year old.

Because the mainstream media always gives us an unbiased and accurate
picture... *snort*

Yeah, Frank. Those were all fiction. None of those things occurred.
Don't you know that the media is a pawn for the government and those
damned fundamentalists? That's why you never read criticism of either.

Bob Hunt

On 2008-09-06, Bob wrote:
investigated. Do either you or Tom Sherman have any direct knowledge
of any 19 yr old boys in any State who were arrested for having
consentual sex with girls under the age of 17 or can you site
verifiable news/court records of same?

You don't read the news much. There was one that I mentioned rather
recently. It was listed on fark.com. Girl lied and said she was 19. Two
guys in prison and labeled sex offenders from her alone.

All the control freak pile on laws do not change a damn thing with what
you want to address. They only define more things as crimes and give
more power to government.

BTW, ever notice the large number of these sexual predators have
government jobs that put them in contact with children?

On 2008-09-06, Bob wrote:
On Sep 5, 10:26*am, Brent P
wrote:
On 2008-09-05, Frank Krygowski wrote:





On Sep 5, 12:41*am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Brent P wrote:

I read a news story (via fark.com) where this girl 14-15 years old was
going around saying she was 19 (complete with myspace page) and having
sex with guys in their early 20s. Picture in the article didn't show
what looked like a 15 year old girl, but at the very least a 19 year old
by appearance. She's put two guys in prison already.
...

A guy could get three forms of ID, photocopy them for his records and
still go to prison.

But hey, that is all right with the fundies, since they would make any
sex besides that solely for procreation between married couples illegal.

Funny thing, but those aren't the kind of incidents I read about in
our newspapers. *Instead, our newspaper reporters have written
articles about a 30 year old live in boyfriend who molested his
girlfriend's daughter. *Or an 18 year old kid who molested two little
cousins. *Or 40+ year old guys meeting 16 year old girls online and
luring them to motels. *Or a local law enforcement officer's sting
operation, in which he pretends to be a young girl online, and has
caught three different middle-aged men who thought they were going to
have sex with a 14 year old.

Because the mainstream media always gives us an unbiased and accurate
picture... *snort*

Yeah, Frank. Those were all fiction. None of those things occurred.

Strawman. And false.

Don't you know that the media is a pawn for the government and those
damned fundamentalists? That's why you never read criticism of either.

I get the feeling you'll still worship the state even after the state
puts you in a camp.

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sep 5, 12:41 am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Brent P wrote:

I read a news story (via fark.com) where this girl 14-15 years old was
going around saying she was 19 (complete with myspace page) and having
sex with guys in their early 20s. Picture in the article didn't show
what looked like a 15 year old girl, but at the very least a 19 year old
by appearance. She's put two guys in prison already.
...
A guy could get three forms of ID, photocopy them for his records and
still go to prison.
But hey, that is all right with the fundies, since they would make any
sex besides that solely for procreation between married couples illegal.

Funny thing, but those aren't the kind of incidents I read about in
our newspapers. Instead, our newspaper reporters have written
articles about a 30 year old live in boyfriend who molested his
girlfriend's daughter. Or an 18 year old kid who molested two little
cousins. Or 40+ year old guys meeting 16 year old girls online and
luring them to motels. Or a local law enforcement officer's sting
operation, in which he pretends to be a young girl online, and has
caught three different middle-aged men who thought they were going to
have sex with a 14 year old.

Damned fundamentalists! Imagine depriving little kids of all that
fun, eh?

No Frank, you missed the point. Most or all of your examples are not
what would be considered CONSENSUAL.

What about the case of the 17 year girl working at the grocery store
wanting to go out and have sex with her 18 or 19 year old cow-orker? [1]
Is that something the state should be prosecuting? Where is the victim
in that scenario?

We are not referring to molestation of pre-pubescent children here. It
used to be that people were expected to be married and earning a living
at 15 or 16 years of age. Treating mid-teens as little children is
insulting to them.

[1] Yes, I have worked in the past in a grocery store, and this is a
very real world situation.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”

Brent P wrote:
On 2008-09-06, Bob wrote:
On Sep 5, 10:26 am, Brent P
wrote:
On 2008-09-05, Frank Krygowski wrote:





On Sep 5, 12:41 am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Brent P wrote:
I read a news story (via fark.com) where this girl 14-15 years old was
going around saying she was 19 (complete with myspace page) and having
sex with guys in their early 20s. Picture in the article didn't show
what looked like a 15 year old girl, but at the very least a 19 year old
by appearance. She's put two guys in prison already.
...
A guy could get three forms of ID, photocopy them for his records and
still go to prison.
But hey, that is all right with the fundies, since they would make any
sex besides that solely for procreation between married couples illegal.
Funny thing, but those aren't the kind of incidents I read about in
our newspapers. Instead, our newspaper reporters have written
articles about a 30 year old live in boyfriend who molested his
girlfriend's daughter. Or an 18 year old kid who molested two little
cousins. Or 40+ year old guys meeting 16 year old girls online and
luring them to motels. Or a local law enforcement officer's sting
operation, in which he pretends to be a young girl online, and has
caught three different middle-aged men who thought they were going to
have sex with a 14 year old.
Because the mainstream media always gives us an unbiased and accurate
picture... *snort*
Yeah, Frank. Those were all fiction. None of those things occurred.

Strawman. And false.

Don't you know that the media is a pawn for the government and those
damned fundamentalists? That's why you never read criticism of either.

I get the feeling you'll still worship the state even after the state
puts you in a camp.

More like people such as Bob will have a choice of putting us in camps,
or losing their jobs (and possibly being put in camps themselves for
disobeying orders).

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”