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about f'ing time (bike rule enforcement)



 
 
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  #201  
Old September 5th 08, 04:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Brent P
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Posts: 622
Default about f'ing time (bike rule enforcement)

On 2008-09-05, Bob wrote:
Theft is theft not because there is some
physical law of nature that defines theft but because society has
agreed to and lawmakers have codified a definition of theft.


The rulers don't get to redefine the meaning in a 1984 sense.

That is how all crimes are defined.


No. The rulers decide what they want to be a crime for a variety of
purposes. Various things are crimes simply to preserve the power of
rulers.

The laws you try to use to support your
argument became law by virtue of the very same authority


I didn't use any laws to support my argument. I used the common
definition of words. Even if I did use some basic common law that
does not undermine my argument in the least because it does not flow
from "authority". Authority isn't needed to figure out that stealing
your neighbor's car is a crime.

that you now
argue is a wrongful usurpation of people's rights, in this case some
imagined "right" to drive.


*sigh* Where did I argue driving was a right? I argued that government
should not be a grantor of privilege. That by making driving a
government granted privilege it gives government a huge amount of power
to do things that undermine our liberty.

In short, your alleged argument is nothing
but a lot of hot air. I'll leave it at that.


In short, your counter argument boils down to declarations like that.
You don't have anything else but 'well that's what we are told, so it
is'. Try thinking things through independently instead of just accepting
what you were told and getting in a huff because someone doesn't accept
it.


Ads
  #202  
Old September 5th 08, 04:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Brent P
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Posts: 622
Default about f'ing time (bike rule enforcement)

On 2008-09-05, Bob wrote:
On Sep 4, 9:21*am, Brent P wrote:

Again, I'll bring up writing a check that is against an account that
does not exist and writing a check that overdraws your account. The
former is theft, the later is a breach of contract. The former is crime,
the later has mere privately imposed penalties (by the merchant and the
bank).
You are mistaken. If it is done intentionally, the latter is also a
crime. That banks don't generally demand prosecution doesn't
decriminalize it.


Um, intent is exactly the difference I highlighted. Duh.


No, actually you didn't highlight any difference in intent. You merely
assumed that any overdrafts would of course be unintentional. Are you
saying then- returning to the context of this sub thread- that
habitual non-payment of child support is always, usually, or even
occasionally unintentional? If so, you live in a dream world. If not,
then why should it *not* be criminalized?


Geebus. No Mr. strawman, 'did you stop beating your wife?' question
asker who pulls things out his imagination.

As to assuming unintentional overdrafts, if one overdraws HIS OWN VALID
ACCOUNT with the intent of THEFT, he's got to be the STUPIDEST CRIMINAL
the world has EVER seen. Because he just gave the people he stole from
his name, address, bank info, and countless other information. That's
got to be like robbing someone's home and INTENTIONALLY leaving one's
wallet with ALL THE USUAL CONTENTS in it on the dining room table.


  #203  
Old September 5th 08, 06:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Chicago Paddling-Fishing
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Posts: 75
Default about focking time (bike rule enforcement)

In chi.general Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:
On 2008-09-03, Tom Sherman wrote:
Brent P wrote:
On 2008-09-03, Tom Keats wrote:

argument rests on the case that driving on publicly financed
roads amounts to a privilege, and in that case, I agree, but
only because there are no pragmatic alternatives.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sure there are. Like bicycling, and public transit.
Or taxicabs. Or having stuff delivered.

I arrange my life to be as bike and walking friendly as possible
short of taking a way lesser paying job in chicago proper but
there is quite a lot I'd have to give up if I were to go 'car free'. And
$20 cab rides are more than my cars cost me to do those things. (but I
have the advantage of paid for cars and doing all my own work)

It is about $60 to take a cab from Aurora to downtown.


It's $5.65 to take Metra from Aurora to downtown. :-)


It's even cheaper to go from Chicago to Schaumburg via the L to pace 600
(even faster if you catch the 606)...

Course it takes a while... but where else can you get hours of entertainment
for that price?

--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)
  #204  
Old September 5th 08, 07:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Chicago Paddling-Fishing
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Posts: 75
Default OT - Overpopulation (about f'ockng time (bike rule enforcement))

In chi.general Brent P wrote:
snip
Not really overpopulation but the conditions they live under due to
economic and government systems. (oddly enough though, those conditions
are what encourages large familes)


I don't think the government encourages a large family... remember the
child tax credit cuts out at 16... 16!!!!

Worse yet is AMT!!!

http://www.themoneyalert.com/AMT.html
"...The problem with the AMT lies not in its tax rate - 28 percent compared
to the 35 percent top bracket of the regular tax system - but in the
deductions it disallows. You can still take mortgage interest and
charitable donations, but the AMT excludes state and local income taxes
and property taxes, unreimbursed business expenses, child tax credits,
tax preparation fees, legal fees and home-equity loan interest.

Without those exemptions, you end up with higher taxable income. Simply
living in a state with high property taxes or having a large family can
trigger the AMT ..."

AMT is the governments child tax cut subterfuge... you start out taking all
these deductions but AMT adds back more than half by the time your done...

--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)
  #205  
Old September 5th 08, 07:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Chicago Paddling-Fishing
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Posts: 75
Default about f'ing time (bike rule enforcement)

In chi.general Tom Sherman wrote:
Bob Hunt wrote:
[...]
It is treated as theft because the Illinois legislature passed laws
making that particular "breach of contract" a criminal offense. That
is, of course, exactly my point. You apparently don't like it that
elected lawmakers can do that or, at least, you don't like the laws
making non-payment of child support a criminal offense. If it is the
former, there's nothing left to say. If the latter, you have three
obvious choices.[...]


I think "elected lawbreakers" is more accurate than "elected lawmakers".


Here's an article you might enjoy;

http://www.chicagoreader.com/features/stories/bells/
"...It's all wink wink, nod nod..."

--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)
  #206  
Old September 5th 08, 08:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Brent P
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 622
Default about f'ing time (bike rule enforcement)

On 2008-09-05, Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:
In chi.general Tom Sherman wrote:
Bob Hunt wrote:
[...]
It is treated as theft because the Illinois legislature passed laws
making that particular "breach of contract" a criminal offense. That
is, of course, exactly my point. You apparently don't like it that
elected lawmakers can do that or, at least, you don't like the laws
making non-payment of child support a criminal offense. If it is the
former, there's nothing left to say. If the latter, you have three
obvious choices.[...]


I think "elected lawbreakers" is more accurate than "elected lawmakers".


Here's an article you might enjoy;

http://www.chicagoreader.com/features/stories/bells/
"...It's all wink wink, nod nod..."


No mention of jesse?


  #207  
Old September 5th 08, 08:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Brent P
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 622
Default OT - Overpopulation (about f'ockng time (bike rule enforcement))

On 2008-09-05, Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:
In chi.general Brent P wrote:
snip
Not really overpopulation but the conditions they live under due to
economic and government systems. (oddly enough though, those conditions
are what encourages large familes)


I don't think the government encourages a large family... remember the
child tax credit cuts out at 16... 16!!!!


*sigh* not the US government, not yet anyway, governments in the third
world.

AMT is the governments child tax cut subterfuge... you start out taking all
these deductions but AMT adds back more than half by the time your done...


The AMT is the game of inflation. Here's the game plan. The government
goes and taxes the rich because well lots of people like such class
warfare. They define the 'rich' as a dollar amount and don't index it to
any sort of inflation. The government through the privately owned
federal reserve inflates. They devalue the money. Time goes by, now the
average person is 'rich' and heavily taxed.

  #208  
Old September 5th 08, 11:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Chicago Paddling-Fishing
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default OT - Overpopulation (about f'ockng time (bike rule enforcement))

In chi.general Brent P wrote:
On 2008-09-05, Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:
In chi.general Brent P wrote:
snip
Not really overpopulation but the conditions they live under due to
economic and government systems. (oddly enough though, those conditions
are what encourages large familes)


I don't think the government encourages a large family... remember the
child tax credit cuts out at 16... 16!!!!


*sigh* not the US government, not yet anyway, governments in the third
world.


I don't think governments in the third world encourage overpopulation, the
people need 10 children to work their farm to survive...

A co-worker of mine from India always said the government would give you a
pail and a brush as payment if you'd allow them to sterilize you...

"India's state of emergency between 1975 and 1977 included an infamous family
planning initiative beginning April 1976, which involved the vasectomy of
thousands of men and tubal ligation of women, either for payment or under
coercive conditions. The son of then-Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, Sanjay
Gandhi, was largely blamed for what turned out to be a failed program.[20] A
strong backlash against any initiative associated with family planning
followed the highly controversial program, which continues into the 21st
century.[21]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_sterilization

AMT is the governments child tax cut subterfuge... you start out taking all
these deductions but AMT adds back more than half by the time your done...


The AMT is the game of inflation. Here's the game plan. The government
goes and taxes the rich because well lots of people like such class
warfare. They define the 'rich' as a dollar amount and don't index it to
any sort of inflation. The government through the privately owned
federal reserve inflates. They devalue the money. Time goes by, now the
average person is 'rich' and heavily taxed.


AMT disallows deductions your employer uses to calculate your withholding...
That sort of messes up any additional credits they give because they only
offset the new tax amount...

--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)
  #209  
Old September 6th 08, 01:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Brent P
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 622
Default OT - Overpopulation (about f'ockng time (bike rule enforcement))

On 2008-09-05, Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:
In chi.general Brent P wrote:
On 2008-09-05, Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:
In chi.general Brent P wrote:
snip
Not really overpopulation but the conditions they live under due to
economic and government systems. (oddly enough though, those conditions
are what encourages large familes)

I don't think the government encourages a large family... remember the
child tax credit cuts out at 16... 16!!!!


*sigh* not the US government, not yet anyway, governments in the third
world.


I don't think governments in the third world encourage overpopulation, the
people need 10 children to work their farm to survive...


Those governments create the conditions where they need ten kids to get
by. Remove the corruption, the centralized power, etc and so forth and
the standard of living would advance and people would lose the need for
larger families. this has been seen everywhere it has been tried.

A co-worker of mine from India always said the government would give you a
pail and a brush as payment if you'd allow them to sterilize you...


Yes, sponsored by eugenists but that's another story.

AMT is the governments child tax cut subterfuge... you start out taking all
these deductions but AMT adds back more than half by the time your done...


The AMT is the game of inflation. Here's the game plan. The government
goes and taxes the rich because well lots of people like such class
warfare. They define the 'rich' as a dollar amount and don't index it to
any sort of inflation. The government through the privately owned
federal reserve inflates. They devalue the money. Time goes by, now the
average person is 'rich' and heavily taxed.


AMT disallows deductions your employer uses to calculate your withholding...
That sort of messes up any additional credits they give because they only
offset the new tax amount...


*sigh* you're too caught up in the details.


  #210  
Old September 6th 08, 04:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,chi.general
Tom Keats
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Posts: 3,193
Default about f'ing time (bike rule enforcement)

In article ,
Brent P writes:
On 2008-09-03, Tom Keats wrote:

argument rests on the case that driving on publicly financed
roads amounts to a privilege, and in that case, I agree, but
only because there are no pragmatic alternatives.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Sure there are. Like bicycling, and public transit.
Or taxicabs. Or having stuff delivered.


I arrange my life to be as bike and walking friendly as possible
short of taking a way lesser paying job in chicago proper but
there is quite a lot I'd have to give up if I were to go 'car free'. And
$20 cab rides are more than my cars cost me to do those things. (but I
have the advantage of paid for cars and doing all my own work)


I'm not saying /everybody/ can go car-free.

But I'm sure a lot of people believe they can't,
when they actually can (and should, if only to
save $$$.) They just haven't their respective
epiphanies about it yet. I leave it to individuals
to make their own educated and thought-out choices.

So I'm not downright ~advocating~ freedom from
POV stewardship; I'm just vocally hoping people
keep open minds, and consider they may have
options of which they've heretofore been unaware,
or have too summarily dismissed.

I observe the trouble with POV stewardship is that
it insidiously entails foot-in-the-door syndrome:
if a POV is required for a certain application,
it becomes too easy to "require" it for less
pressing applications. In many cases there comes
a point where the "need" to own a POV (and all the
stressful baggage that comes with it) becomes phony.
Same as when a junkie or alcoholic or crackhead
"needs" more of their drug of choice: not for any
real purpose, but just to get by and make it through
another day, thereby rationalizing their "need."

I find it so antithetical and irrational to seek freedom
by complicating one's life with phony "needs."

For the record, my current job relies on IC-engine'd
vehicles -- especially semis, yard trucks and
trans-ocean freighters, and I have to drive propane
powered forky lifts, so North American consumers can
buy cheap, cheesy, Made-In-China, dollar store junk.

Sometimes I'd rather be mfg'ing & selling organically
made bike trailers. Jump onto the "green" bandwagon.

The more freedom people have, the more they can
think clearly. Freedom is my goodwill wish for
everybody in the world. (Except for incarcerated
violent people.)


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca



 




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