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chicago bike ordinance(s)
I figured I'd post this before someone else does and rips into Gomberg
as being "anti-cyclist", something he is most definitely not. The cyclist related complaints herein are specifically aimed at those Loop bike messengers that ride like the rules of the road don't apply to them because they are "just trying to make a living in a tough occupation" to which I'd simply reply, "And cabbies aren't?" http://www.suntimes.com/news/politic...030508.article Regards, Bob |
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chicago bike ordinance(s)
On Mar 5, 8:27*pm, Bob wrote:
I figured I'd post this before someone else does and rips into Gomberg as being "anti-cyclist", something he is most definitely not. The cyclist related complaints herein are specifically aimed at those Loop bike messengers that ride like the rules of the road don't apply to them because they are "just trying to make a living in a tough occupation" to which I'd simply reply, "And cabbies aren't?" http://www.suntimes.com/news/politic...030508.article Regards, Bob Punishing bike riders who genuinely threaten harm to fellow riders or to pedestrians is fine, but that should be the standard. When it comes to crossing against a red light when no traffic is in sight, or going up on the sidewalk in selected situations, I have trouble seeing how bikers should be treated any worse than pedestrians. We aren't often a threat to the public safety. That's the trouble with proposing strict enforcement of traffic laws. |
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chicago bike ordinance(s)
On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 18:27:02 -0800 (PST), Bob wrote:
I figured I'd post this before someone else does and rips into Gomberg as being "anti-cyclist", something he is most definitely not. The cyclist related complaints herein are specifically aimed at those Loop bike messengers that ride like the rules of the road don't apply to them because they are "just trying to make a living in a tough occupation" to which I'd simply reply, "And cabbies aren't?" http://www.suntimes.com/news/politic...030508.article Messengers here must pass a written test to obtain their messenger license. They pay an annual fee for the license plate that must be attached to their bikes. They do feel targeted by police because they'll often get tickets for pulling the same stunts as they see other cyclists getting away with. I don't know that taxi drivers are seen as the same easy pickings by a cop meeting a quota. Both Ben Gomberg and his brother, Tooker, now deceased, are well known to be "pro-cycling". Tooker was more of an anarchist, activist and a little too progressive to be Toronto's mayor. Ben still has his passion for cycling. He's no poseur. Chicago is lucky to have him. -- zk |
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Chicago bike ordinance(s)
Bob Hunt wrote:
I figured I'd post this before someone else does and rips into Gomberg as being "anti-cyclist", something he is most definitely not. The cyclist related complaints herein are specifically aimed at those Loop bike messengers that ride like the rules of the road don't apply to them because they are "just trying to make a living in a tough occupation" to which I'd simply reply, "And cabbies aren't?" http://www.suntimes.com/news/politic...030508.article When I saw the thread title, I thought it was going to be about Spike Bike. -- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia The weather is here, wish you were beautiful |
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chicago bike ordinance(s)
On Mar 5, 6:50 pm, Ron Wallenfang wrote:
On Mar 5, 8:27 pm, Bob wrote: I figured I'd post this before someone else does and rips into Gomberg as being "anti-cyclist", something he is most definitely not. The cyclist related complaints herein are specifically aimed at those Loop bike messengers that ride like the rules of the road don't apply to them because they are "just trying to make a living in a tough occupation" to which I'd simply reply, "And cabbies aren't?" http://www.suntimes.com/news/politic...030508.article Regards, Bob Punishing bike riders who genuinely threaten harm to fellow riders or to pedestrians is fine, but that should be the standard. When it comes to crossing against a red light when no traffic is in sight, or going up on the sidewalk in selected situations, I have trouble seeing how bikers should be treated any worse than pedestrians. We aren't often a threat to the public safety. That's the trouble with proposing strict enforcement of traffic laws. Traffic enforcement for biker is a joke in Whitepenis NASCAR nation. All the traffic law and streets are created for mimic NASCAR drivers. In other word, there is no lane for biker in Whitepenis NASCAR nation. It's the nation for mimic NASCAR not for the slow dull bicycle riding. In fact, no street has ever planned for serious bike to compare to Holland's bike culture. My experience in whitepenis culture tells me that biker traffic enforement is a complete joke. It's police harrassment. |
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chicago bike ordinance(s)
On Mar 5, 7:27 pm, Bob wrote:
I figured I'd post this before someone else does and rips into Gomberg as being "anti-cyclist", something he is most definitely not. The cyclist related complaints herein are specifically aimed at those Loop bike messengers that ride like the rules of the road don't apply to them because they are "just trying to make a living in a tough occupation" to which I'd simply reply, "And cabbies aren't?" http://www.suntimes.com/news/politic...030508.article Regards, Bob I don't know how it is in Chicago but in my city the messenger look- alike-contest-winner to actual messenger ratio is about 10-to-1. So it seems likely that many of the people who are observed to be breaking laws and assumed to be messengers by city council members and other residents are not in fact messengers. That said, messengers do break laws consistently and often as it is basically a requirement of the job, it is what is demanded of them. Unlike the cab business, the bike messenger industry is based entirely on the cyclist's ability to move through traffic detached from vehicular laws and movements. They will get yelled at and fired if they don't. If all messengers followed the law, bikes lose their advantage over other modes and the messenger business would cease to exist. It's that simple. Now, do you think the messengers themselves are responsible for the existence of the industry that employs them? Somehow, many people make this bizarre assumption. There is a right way and a wrong way to bust a light and a cyclist asked to do it over and over again all day each day will not last long if they don't do it right. The messengers who have been around a long time have figured a few things out and are probably the safest riders on the road per mile or hour. But there is a lot of turnover in the messenger world and a steady stream of young inexperienced riders coming in who don't do it right and get ambulanced out of the business or ram a pedestrian and get fired before anyone learns their name. With messenger pay so incredibly low, and messengers still performing what the market deems to be a critical service, and still asked to break laws while performing that service, the city of Chicago is getting what it pays for. Robert |
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chicago bike ordinance(s)
On Mar 6, 4:10*am, wrote:
I don't know how it is in Chicago but in my city the messenger look- alike-contest-winner to actual messenger ratio is about 10-to-1. So it seems likely that many of the people who are observed to be breaking laws and assumed to be messengers by city council members and other residents are not in fact messengers. There are a lot of non-messenger riders in your city that ride around your city center for 6 to 10 hours every weekday while hauling a brick of a two way radio and an overstuffed bag on their back? Weird. That said, messengers do break laws consistently and often as it is basically a requirement of the job, it is what is demanded of them. Unlike the cab business, the bike messenger industry is based entirely on the cyclist's ability to move through traffic detached from vehicular laws and movements. They will get yelled at and fired if they don't. If all messengers followed the law, bikes lose their advantage over other modes and the messenger business would cease to exist. It's that simple. Detached from vehicular laws? That's not "simple", its merely simple rationalization. Lots of tasks would be easier for the person performing them if they could disregard the rules with impunity. For instance, my own job would be a lot easier if I wasn't required to allow suspects access to lawyers. Would you defend me if I refused a suspect that right or held them for weeks on end without taking them before a judge? You are confusing necessity and convenience. Now, do you think the messengers themselves are responsible for the existence of the industry that employs them? Somehow, many people make this bizarre assumption. Are messengers responsible for the existence of the industry? No, but are they responsible for the way they ride? Yes. To say otherwise is to say that "I was only following orders" and "Everyone does it" are acceptable excuses for an individual's actions and *that* would be bizarre. Regards, Bob Hunt |
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chicago bike ordinance(s)
On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 02:10:34 -0800, r15757 wrote:
That said, messengers do break laws consistently and often as it is basically a requirement of the job, it is what is demanded of them. Just as a point of reference... About two years ago, a trucker showed up in the "nashville.general" group. He was venting at the Nashville Police - he'd been caught speeding through town at 70mph (55 zone) & got an expensive ticket. He made pretty much the same argument: that the NPD shouldn't be punishing him for speeding - his employer imposes a schedule he can't meet without breaking the law. |
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chicago bike ordinance(s)
On Mar 6, 5:03 am, Bob wrote:
On Mar 6, 4:10 am, wrote: I don't know how it is in Chicago but in my city the messenger look- alike-contest-winner to actual messenger ratio is about 10-to-1. So it seems likely that many of the people who are observed to be breaking laws and assumed to be messengers by city council members and other residents are not in fact messengers. There are a lot of non-messenger riders in your city that ride around your city center for 6 to 10 hours every weekday while hauling a brick of a two way radio and an overstuffed bag on their back? Weird. There are a lot of people wearing messenger bags and dressed in a way that many associate with messengers and riding bikes that many associate with messengers. Far more people out there like this than actual messengers. It's a strange cultural phenomenon that seems to have snuck up on a lot of people, yourself included. There is no doubt that the majority of people assume these riders are messengers when they see them. They do such a good job of looking the part that one would have to be a messenger to know they aren't. BTW, messengers haven't carried bulky radios for about 7-10 years. Nextel phones. And yes, 'posengers' are known to attach their cell phones to the strap of their messenger bag. At last year's VeloSwap I noticed several junior high age kids walking around like that. The modern version of the messenger industry has been around for several decades. It has been sustained because the messengers on the street figured out how to perform their jobs in a reasonably safe fashion. There are now far fewer working messengers on the streets of Chicago or any big city than there were 15 years ago. And yet, the number of people out there who look like messengers has multiplied exponentially in the past 5 years, and complaints against 'messengers' have gone up. Let's connect the dots here please. Detached from vehicular laws? That's not "simple", its merely simple rationalization. Lots of tasks would be easier for the person performing them if they could disregard the rules with impunity. For instance, my own job would be a lot easier if I wasn't required to allow suspects access to lawyers. Would you defend me if I refused a suspect that right or held them for weeks on end without taking them before a judge? You are confusing necessity and convenience. No, you are confusing the two. Would you get fired for performing in a strictly lawful fashion, after being viciously lambasted by company managers and dispatchers? I didn't think so. But that is what messengers have to deal with. The idea that messengers break laws to line their pockets, for the sake of personal convenience is competely ridiculous, although common. Many messengers are working on a fixed hourly or daily rate and would like to do as few runs as possible as slowly as possible. Realize that many messengers' idea of convenience would be to ride ultra- conservative and according to the law. But that is not what they are hired to do. Are messengers responsible for the existence of the industry? No, but are they responsible for the way they ride? Yes. To say otherwise is to say that "I was only following orders" and "Everyone does it" are acceptable excuses for an individual's actions and *that* would be bizarre. There's a disconnect there, Bob. The industry is based on breaking the law. That is not an exaggerration. Any messenger who refused to break the law would not be able to perform his/her required tasks and would be replaced. Now that does not mean the messengers aren't ultimately responsible for their actions. Of course they are. They could choose another job for instance. More importantly, they are responsible for their own safety. Nobody understands that more than a veteran messenger. If they hurt someone while breaking the law, the company will essentially disown them. Nobody will come to their rescue. And if they get hurt because of someone else's mistake, they will probably get blamed anyway. The freedom granted to messengers comes with serious responsibilities and consequences. The messengers understand that very well, but the lookalikes have a lot to learn. Robert |
#10
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chicago bike ordinance(s)
On Mar 6, 7:25*am, Doug Smith W9WI wrote:
On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 02:10:34 -0800, r15757 wrote: That said, messengers do break laws consistently and often as it is basically a requirement of the job, it is what is demanded of them. Just as a point of reference... About two years ago, a trucker showed up in the "nashville.general" group. *He was venting at the Nashville Police - he'd been caught speeding *through town at 70mph (55 zone) & got an expensive ticket. He made pretty much the same argument: that the NPD shouldn't be punishing him for speeding - his employer imposes a schedule he can't meet without breaking the law. * Complaining about cops doing the job they were hired to do is about as useful as complaining about messengers doing the job they were hired to do. Robert |
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