Possible to have brake pads too close to rims?

Okay, you've got very nearly perfectly trued wheels, single pivote calipers brakes and decent quality tires.

Braking isn't that great. Flip open the brake caliper quick relese and braking becomes much more effective.

Is it possible to have brakes so finely adjusted with the pads so close to the rim that braking ability is degraded whereas moving the pads further from the rim actually improves the braking?

Cheers

On 11/19/2014 4:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Okay, you've got very nearly perfectly trued wheels, single pivote calipers brakes and decent quality tires.

Braking isn't that great. Flip open the brake caliper quick relese and braking becomes much more effective.

Is it possible to have brakes so finely adjusted with the pads so close to the rim that braking ability is degraded whereas moving the pads further from the rim actually improves the braking?

Cheers


Some QR designs did indeed change the cable leverage
slightly, although nothing currently made.

More likely you just are able to get a better grasp of the
lever when it's closer to the handlebar.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

AMuzi writes:

On 11/19/2014 4:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Okay, you've got very nearly perfectly trued wheels, single pivote calipers brakes and decent quality tires.

Braking isn't that great. Flip open the brake caliper quick relese and braking becomes much more effective.

Is it possible to have brakes so finely adjusted with the pads so close to the rim that braking ability is degraded whereas moving the pads further from the rim actually improves the braking?

Cheers


Some QR designs did indeed change the cable leverage slightly,
although nothing currently made.

More likely you just are able to get a better grasp of the lever when
it's closer to the handlebar.

Yeah, my wife has small hands and sets her brakes up so they don't
engage until the brake lever is quite close to the bars. Worries me,
since there isn't much room for wear. With them engaging earlier she
cannot apply as much force.

--
Joe Riel

buy new pads and start over. 2 differently worn pad shapes may plague your approach.

maybe. how's the attack angle ? try changing attack, distance from rim, front and rear pad.

when you develop problems whether real or not, measureable or not, you can see where new pads...lika new motor solve, whatever.

a short gap may produce greater effects from all of the above than a wider gap as the attack and coordination times between the 2 pads grows longer, less abrupt possibly more effective.

hows that for bullsheeeet ?

On 11/19/2014 5:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Okay, you've got very nearly perfectly trued wheels, single pivote calipers brakes and decent quality tires.

Braking isn't that great. Flip open the brake caliper quick relese and braking becomes much more effective.

Is it possible to have brakes so finely adjusted with the pads so close to the rim that braking ability is
degraded whereas moving the pads further from the rim actually improves
the braking?


I suppose it's possible, but that's in the same sense that "anything is
possible."

I'm trying to visualize the geometry of different brakes, and wondering
if some resulting change in geometry might increase mechanical
advantage. So - What model of brakes? What model of brake lever? What
type of quick release?

I'm also wondering about other weird factors. Maybe something like a
strand of cable that's broken away, and is restricting motion somehow.
Is it both front and rear brakes? Can we see a photo?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 6:05:29 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/19/2014 4:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Okay, you've got very nearly perfectly trued wheels, single pivote calipers brakes and decent quality tires.

Braking isn't that great. Flip open the brake caliper quick relese and braking becomes much more effective.

Is it possible to have brakes so finely adjusted with the pads so close to the rim that braking ability is degraded whereas moving the pads further from the rim actually improves the braking?

Cheers


Some QR designs did indeed change the cable leverage
slightly, although nothing currently made.

More likely you just are able to get a better grasp of the
lever when it's closer to the handlebar.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Shimano 600 Arabesque brake calipers and matching brake levers. New brake blocks.

Cheers

On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 6:28:41 PM UTC-5, JoeRiel wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 11/19/2014 4:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Okay, you've got very nearly perfectly trued wheels, single pivote calipers brakes and decent quality tires.

Braking isn't that great. Flip open the brake caliper quick relese and braking becomes much more effective.

Is it possible to have brakes so finely adjusted with the pads so close to the rim that braking ability is degraded whereas moving the pads further from the rim actually improves the braking?

Cheers


Some QR designs did indeed change the cable leverage slightly,
although nothing currently made.

More likely you just are able to get a better grasp of the lever when
it's closer to the handlebar.

Yeah, my wife has small hands and sets her brakes up so they don't
engage until the brake lever is quite close to the bars. Worries me,
since there isn't much room for wear. With them engaging earlier she
cannot apply as much force.

--
Joe Riel

Not much difference with the brake lever travel when the brake caliper QR is open just a much more positive feel and effect when the brakes are applied.

Cheers

readjust system, lube and clean cables. squirt grips with CRC

On 20/11/2014 01:34, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 6:28:41 PM UTC-5, JoeRiel wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 11/19/2014 4:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Okay, you've got very nearly perfectly trued wheels, single pivote calipers brakes and decent quality tires.

Braking isn't that great. Flip open the brake caliper quick relese and braking becomes much more effective.

Is it possible to have brakes so finely adjusted with the pads so close to the rim that braking ability is degraded whereas moving the pads further from the rim actually improves the braking?

Cheers


Some QR designs did indeed change the cable leverage slightly,
although nothing currently made.

More likely you just are able to get a better grasp of the lever when
it's closer to the handlebar.

Yeah, my wife has small hands and sets her brakes up so they don't
engage until the brake lever is quite close to the bars. Worries me,
since there isn't much room for wear. With them engaging earlier she
cannot apply as much force.

Not much difference with the brake lever travel when the brake caliper QR is open just a much more positive feel and effect when the brakes are applied.

Presumably the bite point changes? If it doesn't then the QR is pretty
pointless :-)

I'm with Andrew - the bite point will have moved so the lever is closer
to the bars when you hit it, and your hands are stronger at that point
than further out.

Clive George writes:

On 20/11/2014 01:34, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 6:28:41 PM UTC-5, JoeRiel wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 11/19/2014 4:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Okay, you've got very nearly perfectly trued wheels, single pivote calipers brakes and decent quality tires.

Braking isn't that great. Flip open the brake caliper quick relese and braking becomes much more effective.

Is it possible to have brakes so finely adjusted with the pads so close to the rim that braking ability is degraded whereas moving the pads further from the rim actually improves the braking?

Cheers


Some QR designs did indeed change the cable leverage slightly,
although nothing currently made.

More likely you just are able to get a better grasp of the lever when
it's closer to the handlebar.

Yeah, my wife has small hands and sets her brakes up so they don't
engage until the brake lever is quite close to the bars. Worries me,
since there isn't much room for wear. With them engaging earlier she
cannot apply as much force.

Not much difference with the brake lever travel when the brake caliper QR is open just a much more positive feel and effect when the brakes are applied.

Presumably the bite point changes? If it doesn't then the QR is pretty
pointless :-)

Campy Record Ergo levers have the QR in the lever, which doesn't change
the contact point. The Shimano 600 brakes have the QR on the caliper,
so your point is valid, just not universal.

I'm with Andrew - the bite point will have moved so the lever is
closer to the bars when you hit it, and your hands are stronger at
that point than further out.



--
Joe Riel