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#31
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A few months waxing chain
On Monday, December 3, 2018 at 7:39:27 PM UTC-5, John B. slocomb wrote:
Snipped Tom, apparently you don't read well as the three people on this site who have been using wax for some period of time all have said, at one time or another, how clean the sprockets and cassette are. James, for example, just wrote that: "Meanwhile, I installed a new cassette about 1 year ago, and have used 3 chains so far, each one worn to about 0.25% over the past 8000km. I haven't cleaned the cassette once, yet there is no build up of crud to speak of. The spacers appear relatively clean, and there is just a little wax lubricant around each sprocket where the chain runs." Think of it, 8,000 km - about 5,000 miles - and "no build up of crud". Now you come along and say just the opposite... It makes one wonder whether you know what you are talking about fantasy ~ noun ~ Imagination unrestricted by reality. cheers, John B. Or perhaps he's either simply trolling or arguing for the sake of arguing? Cheers |
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#33
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A few months waxing chain
On Monday, December 3, 2018 at 4:39:27 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 10:45:23 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 3:24:38 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote: On Sun, 2 Dec 2018 10:02:23 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Saturday, December 1, 2018 at 3:03:08 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote: On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 10:20:29 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 10:38:18 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote: On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 16:56:00 +1100, James wrote: On 1/12/18 12:28 pm, John B. slocomb wrote: I've been using a mix of paraffin and a light grease containing Molybdenum disulfide. I added a bit of bee's wax thinking it might make the mixture a bit more pliable but I'm not sure that is necessary. As paraffin is soluble in benzene I suppose that one could brew up a liquid batch, with benzene, and squirt it on with an oil can but dunking the chain in an electrical pot full of paraffin seems so much easier :-) The other nice thing is that a pot full lasts for years. One doesn't have to worry about running short and much cheaper then the proprietary blends too :-) I'm beginning to think it is more constructive to point and laugh at people who spend a lot for a little bottle of mostly solvent and a fraction of lubricant. Ah but... they are using the absolute best chain lube available.... just ask them :-) cheers, John B. If you look at a real world test it appears that the cheapest oil possible applied often and the chain cleaned often appears to give the longest chain life. http://biketestreviews.com/the-last-...n-lubrication/ The longest chain life would, indubitable, be a chain that is run in a sealed "chain case" filled with oil. Back in the day when motorcycles had a separate transmission driven by a "Primary Chain" in a sealed "case" with constant oil lubrication it was common to have to change the final drive chain from the transmission to the rear wheel while the Primary Chain lasted practically for ever. In about 1949 I owned an Indian Scout motorcycle that had been built ten years earlier with the original primary chain. However, paraffin waxes give the least friction under use: https://www.scribd.com/document/2620...ficiency-Tests This pretty much explains why a waxed chain is so quiet. It is consuming about half the energy as a chain with White Lightning. Notice my Rock and Roll is second best. So this isn't my opinion as you seem to think. Of course your chain lube is superior to all others. And your wheels are better, and your bicycle is better, and, and, and. Just like everyone else. I do not use paraffin wax because of the great deal of trouble cleaning the chainrings and cogs. I use expensive cassettes and I'd just as soon no have them looking like a pile of dirt, And these expensive cassettes have several cogs attached together that make cleaning them extremely difficult. Not to mention tearing the chain rings off of the crankset to clean them. I really wonder about you. Everyone who has used paraffin for a chain lube has commented about how clean everything is while you say exactly the opposite. cheers, John B. No wonder you're so grouchy all the time - you're a hundred years old.. Not quite yet. But why do you keep changing the subject? You write that "I do not use paraffin wax because of the great deal of trouble cleaning the chainrings and cogs" and I comment that "I really wonder about you. Everyone who has used paraffin for a chain lube has commented about how clean everything is while you say exactly the opposite." Last time you started talking about the U.S. Postal Service, the time before it was India and now it is age. One does begin to suspect that you just don't know what you are talking about and when challenged you are changing the subject in a frantic effort to avoid admitting the fact. cheers, John B. And I have to wonder about you because I've plainly said in several places that the chain stays very clean but the wax/hevy black residue gets all over the chain rings and cogs. Anyone I know that has ever used wax has had exactly the same problem. Tom, apparently you don't read well as the three people on this site who have been using wax for some period of time all have said, at one time or another, how clean the sprockets and cassette are. James, for example, just wrote that: "Meanwhile, I installed a new cassette about 1 year ago, and have used 3 chains so far, each one worn to about 0.25% over the past 8000km. I haven't cleaned the cassette once, yet there is no build up of crud to speak of. The spacers appear relatively clean, and there is just a little wax lubricant around each sprocket where the chain runs." Think of it, 8,000 km - about 5,000 miles - and "no build up of crud". Now you come along and say just the opposite... It makes one wonder whether you know what you are talking about fantasy ~ noun ~ Imagination unrestricted by reality. cheers, John B. You're beginning to sound like the global warming hoaxers - if the facts don't fit, fall back on democratic voting - 97% of all scientists. When they picked 100 scientists out of 10,000 and even then made up the opinions of over half of those as "well, it seemed that's what they were leaving unsaid." |
#34
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A few months waxing chain
On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 3:33:15 AM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, December 3, 2018 at 7:39:27 PM UTC-5, John B. slocomb wrote: Snipped Tom, apparently you don't read well as the three people on this site who have been using wax for some period of time all have said, at one time or another, how clean the sprockets and cassette are. James, for example, just wrote that: "Meanwhile, I installed a new cassette about 1 year ago, and have used 3 chains so far, each one worn to about 0.25% over the past 8000km. I haven't cleaned the cassette once, yet there is no build up of crud to speak of. The spacers appear relatively clean, and there is just a little wax lubricant around each sprocket where the chain runs." Think of it, 8,000 km - about 5,000 miles - and "no build up of crud". Now you come along and say just the opposite... It makes one wonder whether you know what you are talking about fantasy ~ noun ~ Imagination unrestricted by reality. cheers, John B. Or perhaps he's either simply trolling or arguing for the sake of arguing? Cheers Over the years I have spent many hours cleaning that wax residue off cogs and rings. I have disassembled and scrapped and finally used acetone to clean off the remainder until changing to Rock and Roll. Now no residue. But apparently you sat here with me and showed me that there was no such thing. |
#35
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A few months waxing chain
On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 5:37:55 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I've plainly said in several places that the chain stays very clean but the wax/hevy black residue gets all over the chain rings and cogs. Anyone I know that has ever used wax has had exactly the same problem. Not me. After a while, a tiny amount appears on the chainrings. It wipes off easily, if it gets to bother me. And it bothers me only very rarely. Frank - how often do you clean your chain and re-wax? How much off-road riding do you do? I think I re-wax maybe every 500 miles or so. With my method, there is no separate "clean your chain" step. I just add wax/oil mix using a propane torch while the chain is on the bike. The only cleaning is backpedaling the chain through paper towels once the entire chain has gotten it's fresh wax. These days I do only a little off-road riding. Until recently I was on the board of trustees of our local forest preserve. I would ride through the trails once in a while to see if there were problems, and I would cut through on my way to certain destinations. There are a few other gravel roads I would use on occasion, but most of my riding is paved. BTW, I had two hospital stays this year, and associated recovery. It's been a terrible year for cycling. I don't think I've done the chains since February. - Frank Krygowski |
#36
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A few months waxing chain
On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 03:33:13 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: On Monday, December 3, 2018 at 7:39:27 PM UTC-5, John B. slocomb wrote: Snipped Tom, apparently you don't read well as the three people on this site who have been using wax for some period of time all have said, at one time or another, how clean the sprockets and cassette are. James, for example, just wrote that: "Meanwhile, I installed a new cassette about 1 year ago, and have used 3 chains so far, each one worn to about 0.25% over the past 8000km. I haven't cleaned the cassette once, yet there is no build up of crud to speak of. The spacers appear relatively clean, and there is just a little wax lubricant around each sprocket where the chain runs." Think of it, 8,000 km - about 5,000 miles - and "no build up of crud". Now you come along and say just the opposite... It makes one wonder whether you know what you are talking about fantasy ~ noun ~ Imagination unrestricted by reality. cheers, John B. Or perhaps he's either simply trolling or arguing for the sake of arguing? Cheers Or perhaps he just doesn't know what he is talking about :-) cheers, John B. |
#37
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A few months waxing chain
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#38
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A few months waxing chain
On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 14:42:48 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Monday, December 3, 2018 at 4:39:27 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote: On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 10:45:23 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 3:24:38 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote: On Sun, 2 Dec 2018 10:02:23 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Saturday, December 1, 2018 at 3:03:08 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote: On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 10:20:29 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 10:38:18 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote: On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 16:56:00 +1100, James wrote: On 1/12/18 12:28 pm, John B. slocomb wrote: I've been using a mix of paraffin and a light grease containing Molybdenum disulfide. I added a bit of bee's wax thinking it might make the mixture a bit more pliable but I'm not sure that is necessary. As paraffin is soluble in benzene I suppose that one could brew up a liquid batch, with benzene, and squirt it on with an oil can but dunking the chain in an electrical pot full of paraffin seems so much easier :-) The other nice thing is that a pot full lasts for years. One doesn't have to worry about running short and much cheaper then the proprietary blends too :-) I'm beginning to think it is more constructive to point and laugh at people who spend a lot for a little bottle of mostly solvent and a fraction of lubricant. Ah but... they are using the absolute best chain lube available... just ask them :-) cheers, John B. If you look at a real world test it appears that the cheapest oil possible applied often and the chain cleaned often appears to give the longest chain life. http://biketestreviews.com/the-last-...n-lubrication/ The longest chain life would, indubitable, be a chain that is run in a sealed "chain case" filled with oil. Back in the day when motorcycles had a separate transmission driven by a "Primary Chain" in a sealed "case" with constant oil lubrication it was common to have to change the final drive chain from the transmission to the rear wheel while the Primary Chain lasted practically for ever. In about 1949 I owned an Indian Scout motorcycle that had been built ten years earlier with the original primary chain. However, paraffin waxes give the least friction under use: https://www.scribd.com/document/2620...ficiency-Tests This pretty much explains why a waxed chain is so quiet. It is consuming about half the energy as a chain with White Lightning. Notice my Rock and Roll is second best. So this isn't my opinion as you seem to think. Of course your chain lube is superior to all others. And your wheels are better, and your bicycle is better, and, and, and. Just like everyone else. I do not use paraffin wax because of the great deal of trouble cleaning the chainrings and cogs. I use expensive cassettes and I'd just as soon no have them looking like a pile of dirt, And these expensive cassettes have several cogs attached together that make cleaning them extremely difficult. Not to mention tearing the chain rings off of the crankset to clean them. I really wonder about you. Everyone who has used paraffin for a chain lube has commented about how clean everything is while you say exactly the opposite. cheers, John B. No wonder you're so grouchy all the time - you're a hundred years old. Not quite yet. But why do you keep changing the subject? You write that "I do not use paraffin wax because of the great deal of trouble cleaning the chainrings and cogs" and I comment that "I really wonder about you. Everyone who has used paraffin for a chain lube has commented about how clean everything is while you say exactly the opposite." Last time you started talking about the U.S. Postal Service, the time before it was India and now it is age. One does begin to suspect that you just don't know what you are talking about and when challenged you are changing the subject in a frantic effort to avoid admitting the fact. cheers, John B. And I have to wonder about you because I've plainly said in several places that the chain stays very clean but the wax/hevy black residue gets all over the chain rings and cogs. Anyone I know that has ever used wax has had exactly the same problem. Tom, apparently you don't read well as the three people on this site who have been using wax for some period of time all have said, at one time or another, how clean the sprockets and cassette are. James, for example, just wrote that: "Meanwhile, I installed a new cassette about 1 year ago, and have used 3 chains so far, each one worn to about 0.25% over the past 8000km. I haven't cleaned the cassette once, yet there is no build up of crud to speak of. The spacers appear relatively clean, and there is just a little wax lubricant around each sprocket where the chain runs." Think of it, 8,000 km - about 5,000 miles - and "no build up of crud". Now you come along and say just the opposite... It makes one wonder whether you know what you are talking about fantasy ~ noun ~ Imagination unrestricted by reality. cheers, John B. You're beginning to sound like the global warming hoaxers - if the facts don't fit, fall back on democratic voting - 97% of all scientists. When they picked 100 scientists out of 10,000 and even then made up the opinions of over half of those as "well, it seemed that's what they were leaving unsaid." Gee Tom, you are really desperate not to admit that you are wrong, aren't you. After all if every one of the users of hot wax as a chain lube say that they have no problems with dirty chain, cogs or sprocket, one might just suspect that they do know what they are talking about. By the same token if those who don't use the hot wax lube method lay claim to a dirty chain, cassette or front sprocket it does seem to indicate they really don't know what they are talking about... or deliberately lying. Your frantic effort of bringing global warming into the argument is even more proof that you simply don't know what you are talking about. Or should we consider you as just another liar? cheers, John B. |
#39
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A few months waxing chain
On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 19:26:50 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote: On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 5:37:55 PM UTC-5, wrote: I've plainly said in several places that the chain stays very clean but the wax/hevy black residue gets all over the chain rings and cogs. Anyone I know that has ever used wax has had exactly the same problem. Not me. After a while, a tiny amount appears on the chainrings. It wipes off easily, if it gets to bother me. And it bothers me only very rarely. Frank - how often do you clean your chain and re-wax? How much off-road riding do you do? I think I re-wax maybe every 500 miles or so. With my method, there is no separate "clean your chain" step. I just add wax/oil mix using a propane torch while the chain is on the bike. The only cleaning is backpedaling the chain through paper towels once the entire chain has gotten it's fresh wax. These days I do only a little off-road riding. Until recently I was on the board of trustees of our local forest preserve. I would ride through the trails once in a while to see if there were problems, and I would cut through on my way to certain destinations. There are a few other gravel roads I would use on occasion, but most of my riding is paved. BTW, I had two hospital stays this year, and associated recovery. It's been a terrible year for cycling. I don't think I've done the chains since February. - Frank Krygowski Et tu, Brute? I ended up with a pacemaker installed. cheers, John B. |
#40
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A few months waxing chain
On 12/4/2018 9:42 PM, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 14:48:25 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 3:33:15 AM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote: fantasy ~ noun ~ Imagination unrestricted by reality. cheers, John B. Or perhaps he's either simply trolling or arguing for the sake of arguing? Cheers Over the years I have spent many hours cleaning that wax residue off cogs and rings. I have disassembled and scrapped and finally used acetone to clean off the remainder until changing to Rock and Roll. Now no residue. But apparently you sat here with me and showed me that there was no such thing. Tom, I have to believe that you either don't know what you are talking about or simply a liar. I believe Tom. No reason to doubt his description. I've seen waxed chain systems as Frank describes, shiny and neat but I've also seen gear trains more encrusted with wax than the floor under The Virgin Mary's niche. Riders use more or less or much more of various waxy things. 'Wax' is not a standard thing at all. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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