New Tactical Cycling Maneuver

On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 12:15:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 9:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 19:58:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 7:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:49:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:


I'm not denying the popularity of the AR style. I'm explaining it, and
how silly it is, and how detrimental to society.

You are explaining it??? Frank, you have demonstrated over and over
that you don't know enough about firearms to explain anything.

I'm explaining that the overall configuration of AR style rifles is
optimized for man-killing duty. It is light weight and compact for rapid
movement during combat. It can accept large magazines, can be quickly
reloaded, uses lighter ammunition so more rounds can be carried and
shot. It has other features (like pistol grip) that allow quick motion
and aiming in cluttered combat situations (as opposed to open field
shooting at a distance).

I'm saying that few of those features are optimum for what most people
claim as their intended use of guns. ARs are not the best gun for
hunting anything from deer to mountain goats to squirrels to ducks to
chipmunks. They are not the best gun for hitting a bullseye at a target
range. They are not the best gun for home defense.

They are popular mostly because they look like badass guns, so Walter
Mitty buys one to feel manly. And a few whackos like them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in schools, churches,
night clubs, concerts...

Instead of saying "You don't know anything," get specific. Don't
sidetrack, don't deflect. Tell me exactly what's wrong in what I wrote.


Well Frank, since you insist.

"They aren't the best hunting rifle..."

Actually the AR-15 weighs about 6.5 lbs and I can assure you that
carrying a 6 lb rifle all day is significantly less tiring then
carrying a 9 lb rifle.

The .223 Remingtonj, or 5.56×45mm NATO if you prefer is considered
adequate for up to deer size creatures - wound cavities age generally
larger then those of the 30-30 Winchester.

"They are not the best gun for hitting a bulls eye at a target
range...."

I've already shown you some pictures but here are even mo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5XPV-8db0Q
https://tinyurl.com/y76xmcfa
Note the predominance of the AR/M-16 type.

Here's what I just read about that event: "the yearly President’s
Hundred match, held at the National Championships, is a very prestigious
Service Rifle (and Service Pistol) event."

John, if it's an event for "service rifles," it's probably going to have
a lot of service rifles in it, no? IOW, rifles that are optimized for
combat duty, not accuracy.

That's not proof that those service

"And a few whackos like them"
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/...uction-is.aspx
The AR-style rifle is the most popular firearm in the country, with
about 16 million Americans owning them.

You truncated my sentence. I said "And a few whackos like them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in schools, churches,
night clubs, concerts..." Unfortunately, that's true, whether or not
others like them for other reasons.

Sure, some others like them because they they can play with and assemble
them with lots of different accessories - kind of like grown up Legos.
But I think most owners like them because owning one makes them feel manly.

BTW, do you own one?

Frank, you have spent the past several days exposing, over and over,
and over again, your complete ignorance of guns and shooting.

As above, you state that service rifles used for target shooting
aren't optimized for accuracy which, once again, exposes your total
ignorance of the subject as to my personal knowledge "service rifles
ranging from the M1903 Springfield all the way up through the AR/M16
type have been optimized for accuracy and your argument that they
aren't is yet further evidence of your lack of knowledge..

Lets just end this discussion. You have demonstrated your almost total
lack of knowledge about firearms and you have explained your apparent
fear of the AR/M16 - it goes pop, pop, pop, as you described it.

By the way, the Glock series of pistol can be fitted with a 30 round
magazine and go pop,pop,pop, too. Why aren't you condemning them?

So Frank, given your lack of knowledge about fire arms - you seem to
know that the AR type was originally made for the army and goes
pop,pop,pop and that is bad, but you don't seem to know that the
plastic Glock pistols were also designed for the army and go
pop,pop,pop, just as many times as the AR type, but apparently they
aren't bad - I'm ending this discussion.

As you have demonstrated, you simply lack sufficient knowledge about
the subject to continue the discussion.

(Or to put it another way, "The dumb ass doesn't know what he is
talking about)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 10/1/2020 7:19 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 12:15:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 9:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 19:58:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 7:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:49:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:


I'm not denying the popularity of the AR style. I'm explaining it, and
how silly it is, and how detrimental to society.

You are explaining it??? Frank, you have demonstrated over and over
that you don't know enough about firearms to explain anything.

I'm explaining that the overall configuration of AR style rifles is
optimized for man-killing duty. It is light weight and compact for rapid
movement during combat. It can accept large magazines, can be quickly
reloaded, uses lighter ammunition so more rounds can be carried and
shot. It has other features (like pistol grip) that allow quick motion
and aiming in cluttered combat situations (as opposed to open field
shooting at a distance).

I'm saying that few of those features are optimum for what most people
claim as their intended use of guns. ARs are not the best gun for
hunting anything from deer to mountain goats to squirrels to ducks to
chipmunks. They are not the best gun for hitting a bullseye at a target
range. They are not the best gun for home defense.

They are popular mostly because they look like badass guns, so Walter
Mitty buys one to feel manly. And a few whackos like them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in schools, churches,
night clubs, concerts...

Instead of saying "You don't know anything," get specific. Don't
sidetrack, don't deflect. Tell me exactly what's wrong in what I wrote.


Well Frank, since you insist.

"They aren't the best hunting rifle..."

Actually the AR-15 weighs about 6.5 lbs and I can assure you that
carrying a 6 lb rifle all day is significantly less tiring then
carrying a 9 lb rifle.

The .223 Remingtonj, or 5.56×45mm NATO if you prefer is considered
adequate for up to deer size creatures - wound cavities age generally
larger then those of the 30-30 Winchester.

"They are not the best gun for hitting a bulls eye at a target
range...."

I've already shown you some pictures but here are even mo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5XPV-8db0Q
https://tinyurl.com/y76xmcfa
Note the predominance of the AR/M-16 type.

Here's what I just read about that event: "the yearly President’s
Hundred match, held at the National Championships, is a very prestigious
Service Rifle (and Service Pistol) event."

John, if it's an event for "service rifles," it's probably going to have
a lot of service rifles in it, no? IOW, rifles that are optimized for
combat duty, not accuracy.

That's not proof that those service

"And a few whackos like them"
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/...uction-is.aspx
The AR-style rifle is the most popular firearm in the country, with
about 16 million Americans owning them.

You truncated my sentence. I said "And a few whackos like them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in schools, churches,
night clubs, concerts..." Unfortunately, that's true, whether or not
others like them for other reasons.

Sure, some others like them because they they can play with and assemble
them with lots of different accessories - kind of like grown up Legos.
But I think most owners like them because owning one makes them feel manly.

BTW, do you own one?

Frank, you have spent the past several days exposing, over and over,
and over again, your complete ignorance of guns and shooting.

As above, you state that service rifles used for target shooting
aren't optimized for accuracy which, once again, exposes your total
ignorance of the subject as to my personal knowledge "service rifles
ranging from the M1903 Springfield all the way up through the AR/M16
type have been optimized for accuracy and your argument that they
aren't is yet further evidence of your lack of knowledge..

Lets just end this discussion. You have demonstrated your almost total
lack of knowledge about firearms and you have explained your apparent
fear of the AR/M16 - it goes pop, pop, pop, as you described it.

By the way, the Glock series of pistol can be fitted with a 30 round
magazine and go pop,pop,pop, too. Why aren't you condemning them?

So Frank, given your lack of knowledge about fire arms - you seem to
know that the AR type was originally made for the army and goes
pop,pop,pop and that is bad, but you don't seem to know that the
plastic Glock pistols were also designed for the army and go
pop,pop,pop, just as many times as the AR type, but apparently they
aren't bad - I'm ending this discussion.

As you have demonstrated, you simply lack sufficient knowledge about
the subject to continue the discussion.

(Or to put it another way, "The dumb ass doesn't know what he is
talking about)

So instead of answering my question, "In the competitions you linked in
videos, how many shots did a typical contestant fire _in one minute_?"
you choose to say "Let's just end this discussion."

OK. We know the answer well enough without you admitting to it.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 10/2/2020 3:08 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/1/2020 7:19 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 12:15:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 9:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 19:58:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 7:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:49:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


I'm not denying the popularity of the AR style. I'm
explaining it, and
how silly it is, and how detrimental to society.

You are explaining it??? Frank, you have demonstrated
over and over
that you don't know enough about firearms to explain
anything.

I'm explaining that the overall configuration of AR
style rifles is
optimized for man-killing duty. It is light weight and
compact for rapid
movement during combat. It can accept large magazines,
can be quickly
reloaded, uses lighter ammunition so more rounds can be
carried and
shot. It has other features (like pistol grip) that
allow quick motion
and aiming in cluttered combat situations (as opposed
to open field
shooting at a distance).

I'm saying that few of those features are optimum for
what most people
claim as their intended use of guns. ARs are not the
best gun for
hunting anything from deer to mountain goats to
squirrels to ducks to
chipmunks. They are not the best gun for hitting a
bullseye at a target
range. They are not the best gun for home defense.

They are popular mostly because they look like badass
guns, so Walter
Mitty buys one to feel manly. And a few whackos like
them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in
schools, churches,
night clubs, concerts...

Instead of saying "You don't know anything," get
specific. Don't
sidetrack, don't deflect. Tell me exactly what's wrong
in what I wrote.


Well Frank, since you insist.

"They aren't the best hunting rifle..."

Actually the AR-15 weighs about 6.5 lbs and I can assure
you that
carrying a 6 lb rifle all day is significantly less
tiring then
carrying a 9 lb rifle.

The .223 Remingtonj, or 5.56×45mm NATO if you prefer is
considered
adequate for up to deer size creatures - wound cavities
age generally
larger then those of the 30-30 Winchester.

"They are not the best gun for hitting a bulls eye at a
target
range...."

I've already shown you some pictures but here are even
mo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5XPV-8db0Q
https://tinyurl.com/y76xmcfa
Note the predominance of the AR/M-16 type.

Here's what I just read about that event: "the yearly
President’s
Hundred match, held at the National Championships, is a
very prestigious
Service Rifle (and Service Pistol) event."

John, if it's an event for "service rifles," it's
probably going to have
a lot of service rifles in it, no? IOW, rifles that are
optimized for
combat duty, not accuracy.

That's not proof that those service

"And a few whackos like them"
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/...uction-is.aspx

The AR-style rifle is the most popular firearm in the
country, with
about 16 million Americans owning them.

You truncated my sentence. I said "And a few whackos like
them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in schools,
churches,
night clubs, concerts..." Unfortunately, that's true,
whether or not
others like them for other reasons.

Sure, some others like them because they they can play
with and assemble
them with lots of different accessories - kind of like
grown up Legos.
But I think most owners like them because owning one
makes them feel manly.

BTW, do you own one?

Frank, you have spent the past several days exposing, over
and over,
and over again, your complete ignorance of guns and shooting.

As above, you state that service rifles used for target
shooting
aren't optimized for accuracy which, once again, exposes
your total
ignorance of the subject as to my personal knowledge
"service rifles
ranging from the M1903 Springfield all the way up through
the AR/M16
type have been optimized for accuracy and your argument
that they
aren't is yet further evidence of your lack of knowledge..

Lets just end this discussion. You have demonstrated your
almost total
lack of knowledge about firearms and you have explained
your apparent
fear of the AR/M16 - it goes pop, pop, pop, as you
described it.

By the way, the Glock series of pistol can be fitted with
a 30 round
magazine and go pop,pop,pop, too. Why aren't you
condemning them?

So Frank, given your lack of knowledge about fire arms -
you seem to
know that the AR type was originally made for the army and
goes
pop,pop,pop and that is bad, but you don't seem to know
that the
plastic Glock pistols were also designed for the army and go
pop,pop,pop, just as many times as the AR type, but
apparently they
aren't bad - I'm ending this discussion.

As you have demonstrated, you simply lack sufficient
knowledge about
the subject to continue the discussion.

(Or to put it another way, "The dumb ass doesn't know what
he is
talking about)

So instead of answering my question, "In the competitions
you linked in videos, how many shots did a typical
contestant fire _in one minute_?" you choose to say "Let's
just end this discussion."

OK. We know the answer well enough without you admitting to it.



Popular competitions use regular rifles, mostly because
people have them:
https://www.nssf.org/shooting/3-gun/

Some situations, very long range targets and specialty
military snipers, use super precision bolt action rifles
(https://barrett.net/products/firearms/model99 for
example). That's a decided outlier among firearms.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 6:02:27 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2020 3:08 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/1/2020 7:19 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 12:15:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 9:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 19:58:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 7:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:49:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


I'm not denying the popularity of the AR style. I'm
explaining it, and
how silly it is, and how detrimental to society.

You are explaining it??? Frank, you have demonstrated
over and over
that you don't know enough about firearms to explain
anything.

I'm explaining that the overall configuration of AR
style rifles is
optimized for man-killing duty. It is light weight and
compact for rapid
movement during combat. It can accept large magazines,
can be quickly
reloaded, uses lighter ammunition so more rounds can be
carried and
shot. It has other features (like pistol grip) that
allow quick motion
and aiming in cluttered combat situations (as opposed
to open field
shooting at a distance).

I'm saying that few of those features are optimum for
what most people
claim as their intended use of guns. ARs are not the
best gun for
hunting anything from deer to mountain goats to
squirrels to ducks to
chipmunks. They are not the best gun for hitting a
bullseye at a target
range. They are not the best gun for home defense.

They are popular mostly because they look like badass
guns, so Walter
Mitty buys one to feel manly. And a few whackos like
them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in
schools, churches,
night clubs, concerts...

Instead of saying "You don't know anything," get
specific. Don't
sidetrack, don't deflect. Tell me exactly what's wrong
in what I wrote.


Well Frank, since you insist.

"They aren't the best hunting rifle..."

Actually the AR-15 weighs about 6.5 lbs and I can assure
you that
carrying a 6 lb rifle all day is significantly less
tiring then
carrying a 9 lb rifle.

The .223 Remingtonj, or 5.56×45mm NATO if you prefer is
considered
adequate for up to deer size creatures - wound cavities
age generally
larger then those of the 30-30 Winchester.

"They are not the best gun for hitting a bulls eye at a
target
range...."

I've already shown you some pictures but here are even
mo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5XPV-8db0Q
https://tinyurl.com/y76xmcfa
Note the predominance of the AR/M-16 type.

Here's what I just read about that event: "the yearly
President’s
Hundred match, held at the National Championships, is a
very prestigious
Service Rifle (and Service Pistol) event."

John, if it's an event for "service rifles," it's
probably going to have
a lot of service rifles in it, no? IOW, rifles that are
optimized for
combat duty, not accuracy.

That's not proof that those service

"And a few whackos like them"
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/...uction-is.aspx

The AR-style rifle is the most popular firearm in the
country, with
about 16 million Americans owning them.

You truncated my sentence. I said "And a few whackos like
them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in schools,
churches,
night clubs, concerts..." Unfortunately, that's true,
whether or not
others like them for other reasons.

Sure, some others like them because they they can play
with and assemble
them with lots of different accessories - kind of like
grown up Legos.
But I think most owners like them because owning one
makes them feel manly.

BTW, do you own one?

Frank, you have spent the past several days exposing, over
and over,
and over again, your complete ignorance of guns and shooting.

As above, you state that service rifles used for target
shooting
aren't optimized for accuracy which, once again, exposes
your total
ignorance of the subject as to my personal knowledge
"service rifles
ranging from the M1903 Springfield all the way up through
the AR/M16
type have been optimized for accuracy and your argument
that they
aren't is yet further evidence of your lack of knowledge..

Lets just end this discussion. You have demonstrated your
almost total
lack of knowledge about firearms and you have explained
your apparent
fear of the AR/M16 - it goes pop, pop, pop, as you
described it.

By the way, the Glock series of pistol can be fitted with
a 30 round
magazine and go pop,pop,pop, too. Why aren't you
condemning them?

So Frank, given your lack of knowledge about fire arms -
you seem to
know that the AR type was originally made for the army and
goes
pop,pop,pop and that is bad, but you don't seem to know
that the
plastic Glock pistols were also designed for the army and go
pop,pop,pop, just as many times as the AR type, but
apparently they
aren't bad - I'm ending this discussion.

As you have demonstrated, you simply lack sufficient
knowledge about
the subject to continue the discussion.

(Or to put it another way, "The dumb ass doesn't know what
he is
talking about)

So instead of answering my question, "In the competitions
you linked in videos, how many shots did a typical
contestant fire _in one minute_?" you choose to say "Let's
just end this discussion."

OK. We know the answer well enough without you admitting to it.



Popular competitions use regular rifles, mostly because
people have them:
https://www.nssf.org/shooting/3-gun/

Some situations, very long range targets and specialty
military snipers, use super precision bolt action rifles
(https://barrett.net/products/firearms/model99 for
example). That's a decided outlier among firearms.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

That Barrett Mod 99 rifle is built for one thing: "to get the job done." What is the job? Why not get this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZHF...arrettFirearms The Mod 99 is relatively cheap at $4,600-ish, but I could see the discussion with the wife, "I need that rifle to get the job done, honey. C'mon. How'm I supposed to get the job done if I don't have that rifle?" I could see getting it for home defense, but not my home -- some home ten blocks away.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 7:43:44 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 6:02:27 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2020 3:08 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/1/2020 7:19 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 12:15:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 9:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 19:58:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 7:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:49:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


I'm not denying the popularity of the AR style. I'm
explaining it, and
how silly it is, and how detrimental to society.

You are explaining it??? Frank, you have demonstrated
over and over
that you don't know enough about firearms to explain
anything.

I'm explaining that the overall configuration of AR
style rifles is
optimized for man-killing duty. It is light weight and
compact for rapid
movement during combat. It can accept large magazines,
can be quickly
reloaded, uses lighter ammunition so more rounds can be
carried and
shot. It has other features (like pistol grip) that
allow quick motion
and aiming in cluttered combat situations (as opposed
to open field
shooting at a distance).

I'm saying that few of those features are optimum for
what most people
claim as their intended use of guns. ARs are not the
best gun for
hunting anything from deer to mountain goats to
squirrels to ducks to
chipmunks. They are not the best gun for hitting a
bullseye at a target
range. They are not the best gun for home defense.

They are popular mostly because they look like badass
guns, so Walter
Mitty buys one to feel manly. And a few whackos like
them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in
schools, churches,
night clubs, concerts...

Instead of saying "You don't know anything," get
specific. Don't
sidetrack, don't deflect. Tell me exactly what's wrong
in what I wrote.


Well Frank, since you insist.

"They aren't the best hunting rifle..."

Actually the AR-15 weighs about 6.5 lbs and I can assure
you that
carrying a 6 lb rifle all day is significantly less
tiring then
carrying a 9 lb rifle.

The .223 Remingtonj, or 5.56×45mm NATO if you prefer is
considered
adequate for up to deer size creatures - wound cavities
age generally
larger then those of the 30-30 Winchester.

"They are not the best gun for hitting a bulls eye at a
target
range...."

I've already shown you some pictures but here are even
mo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5XPV-8db0Q
https://tinyurl.com/y76xmcfa
Note the predominance of the AR/M-16 type.

Here's what I just read about that event: "the yearly
President’s
Hundred match, held at the National Championships, is a
very prestigious
Service Rifle (and Service Pistol) event."

John, if it's an event for "service rifles," it's
probably going to have
a lot of service rifles in it, no? IOW, rifles that are
optimized for
combat duty, not accuracy.

That's not proof that those service

"And a few whackos like them"
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/...uction-is.aspx

The AR-style rifle is the most popular firearm in the
country, with
about 16 million Americans owning them.

You truncated my sentence. I said "And a few whackos like
them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in schools,
churches,
night clubs, concerts..." Unfortunately, that's true,
whether or not
others like them for other reasons.

Sure, some others like them because they they can play
with and assemble
them with lots of different accessories - kind of like
grown up Legos.
But I think most owners like them because owning one
makes them feel manly.

BTW, do you own one?

Frank, you have spent the past several days exposing, over
and over,
and over again, your complete ignorance of guns and shooting.

As above, you state that service rifles used for target
shooting
aren't optimized for accuracy which, once again, exposes
your total
ignorance of the subject as to my personal knowledge
"service rifles
ranging from the M1903 Springfield all the way up through
the AR/M16
type have been optimized for accuracy and your argument
that they
aren't is yet further evidence of your lack of knowledge..

Lets just end this discussion. You have demonstrated your
almost total
lack of knowledge about firearms and you have explained
your apparent
fear of the AR/M16 - it goes pop, pop, pop, as you
described it.

By the way, the Glock series of pistol can be fitted with
a 30 round
magazine and go pop,pop,pop, too. Why aren't you
condemning them?

So Frank, given your lack of knowledge about fire arms -
you seem to
know that the AR type was originally made for the army and
goes
pop,pop,pop and that is bad, but you don't seem to know
that the
plastic Glock pistols were also designed for the army and go
pop,pop,pop, just as many times as the AR type, but
apparently they
aren't bad - I'm ending this discussion.

As you have demonstrated, you simply lack sufficient
knowledge about
the subject to continue the discussion.

(Or to put it another way, "The dumb ass doesn't know what
he is
talking about)

So instead of answering my question, "In the competitions
you linked in videos, how many shots did a typical
contestant fire _in one minute_?" you choose to say "Let's
just end this discussion."

OK. We know the answer well enough without you admitting to it.



Popular competitions use regular rifles, mostly because
people have them:
https://www.nssf.org/shooting/3-gun/

Some situations, very long range targets and specialty
military snipers, use super precision bolt action rifles
(https://barrett.net/products/firearms/model99 for
example). That's a decided outlier among firearms.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
That Barrett Mod 99 rifle is built for one thing: "to get the job done." What is the job? Why not get this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZHF...arrettFirearms The Mod 99 is relatively cheap at $4,600-ish, but I could see the discussion with the wife, "I need that rifle to get the job done, honey. C'mon. How'm I supposed to get the job done if I don't have that rifle?" I could see getting it for home defense, but not my home -- some home ten blocks away.

-- Jay Beattie.
You and Frank sure seem to have a problem with the 2nd Amendment. Could that be because it represents you having your life ended if you try to take over the government? Not you personally of course but your elected officials.

jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 6:02:27 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2020 3:08 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/1/2020 7:19 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 12:15:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 9:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 19:58:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 7:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:49:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


I'm not denying the popularity of the AR style. I'm
explaining it, and
how silly it is, and how detrimental to society.

You are explaining it??? Frank, you have demonstrated
over and over
that you don't know enough about firearms to explain
anything.

I'm explaining that the overall configuration of AR
style rifles is
optimized for man-killing duty. It is light weight and
compact for rapid
movement during combat. It can accept large magazines,
can be quickly
reloaded, uses lighter ammunition so more rounds can be
carried and
shot. It has other features (like pistol grip) that
allow quick motion
and aiming in cluttered combat situations (as opposed
to open field
shooting at a distance).

I'm saying that few of those features are optimum for
what most people
claim as their intended use of guns. ARs are not the
best gun for
hunting anything from deer to mountain goats to
squirrels to ducks to
chipmunks. They are not the best gun for hitting a
bullseye at a target
range. They are not the best gun for home defense.

They are popular mostly because they look like badass
guns, so Walter
Mitty buys one to feel manly. And a few whackos like
them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in
schools, churches,
night clubs, concerts...

Instead of saying "You don't know anything," get
specific. Don't
sidetrack, don't deflect. Tell me exactly what's wrong
in what I wrote.


Well Frank, since you insist.

"They aren't the best hunting rifle..."

Actually the AR-15 weighs about 6.5 lbs and I can assure
you that
carrying a 6 lb rifle all day is significantly less
tiring then
carrying a 9 lb rifle.

The .223 Remingtonj, or 5.56×45mm NATO if you prefer is
considered
adequate for up to deer size creatures - wound cavities
age generally
larger then those of the 30-30 Winchester.

"They are not the best gun for hitting a bulls eye at a
target
range...."

I've already shown you some pictures but here are even
mo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5XPV-8db0Q
https://tinyurl.com/y76xmcfa
Note the predominance of the AR/M-16 type.

Here's what I just read about that event: "the yearly
President’s
Hundred match, held at the National Championships, is a
very prestigious
Service Rifle (and Service Pistol) event."

John, if it's an event for "service rifles," it's
probably going to have
a lot of service rifles in it, no? IOW, rifles that are
optimized for
combat duty, not accuracy.

That's not proof that those service

"And a few whackos like them"
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/...uction-is.aspx

The AR-style rifle is the most popular firearm in the
country, with
about 16 million Americans owning them.

You truncated my sentence. I said "And a few whackos like
them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in schools,
churches,
night clubs, concerts..." Unfortunately, that's true,
whether or not
others like them for other reasons.

Sure, some others like them because they they can play
with and assemble
them with lots of different accessories - kind of like
grown up Legos.
But I think most owners like them because owning one
makes them feel manly.

BTW, do you own one?

Frank, you have spent the past several days exposing, over
and over,
and over again, your complete ignorance of guns and shooting.

As above, you state that service rifles used for target
shooting
aren't optimized for accuracy which, once again, exposes
your total
ignorance of the subject as to my personal knowledge
"service rifles
ranging from the M1903 Springfield all the way up through
the AR/M16
type have been optimized for accuracy and your argument
that they
aren't is yet further evidence of your lack of knowledge..

Lets just end this discussion. You have demonstrated your
almost total
lack of knowledge about firearms and you have explained
your apparent
fear of the AR/M16 - it goes pop, pop, pop, as you
described it.

By the way, the Glock series of pistol can be fitted with
a 30 round
magazine and go pop,pop,pop, too. Why aren't you
condemning them?

So Frank, given your lack of knowledge about fire arms -
you seem to
know that the AR type was originally made for the army and
goes
pop,pop,pop and that is bad, but you don't seem to know
that the
plastic Glock pistols were also designed for the army and go
pop,pop,pop, just as many times as the AR type, but
apparently they
aren't bad - I'm ending this discussion.

As you have demonstrated, you simply lack sufficient
knowledge about
the subject to continue the discussion.

(Or to put it another way, "The dumb ass doesn't know what
he is
talking about)

So instead of answering my question, "In the competitions
you linked in videos, how many shots did a typical
contestant fire _in one minute_?" you choose to say "Let's
just end this discussion."

OK. We know the answer well enough without you admitting to it.



Popular competitions use regular rifles, mostly because
people have them:
https://www.nssf.org/shooting/3-gun/

Some situations, very long range targets and specialty
military snipers, use super precision bolt action rifles
(https://barrett.net/products/firearms/model99 for
example). That's a decided outlier among firearms.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

That Barrett Mod 99 rifle is built for one thing: "to get the job done."
What is the job? Why not get this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZHF...arrettFirearms
The Mod 99 is relatively cheap at $4,600-ish, but I could see the
discussion with the wife, "I need that rifle to get the job done, honey.
C'mon. How'm I supposed to get the job done if I don't have that rifle?"
I could see getting it for home defense, but not my home -- some home ten blocks away.

-- Jay Beattie.

All in all, I’d rather buy a bicycle, and I’d rather that other people
bought a bicycle instead as well.

On 10/2/2020 9:43 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 6:02:27 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2020 3:08 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/1/2020 7:19 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 12:15:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 9:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 19:58:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 7:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:49:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


I'm not denying the popularity of the AR style. I'm
explaining it, and
how silly it is, and how detrimental to society.

You are explaining it??? Frank, you have demonstrated
over and over
that you don't know enough about firearms to explain
anything.

I'm explaining that the overall configuration of AR
style rifles is
optimized for man-killing duty. It is light weight and
compact for rapid
movement during combat. It can accept large magazines,
can be quickly
reloaded, uses lighter ammunition so more rounds can be
carried and
shot. It has other features (like pistol grip) that
allow quick motion
and aiming in cluttered combat situations (as opposed
to open field
shooting at a distance).

I'm saying that few of those features are optimum for
what most people
claim as their intended use of guns. ARs are not the
best gun for
hunting anything from deer to mountain goats to
squirrels to ducks to
chipmunks. They are not the best gun for hitting a
bullseye at a target
range. They are not the best gun for home defense.

They are popular mostly because they look like badass
guns, so Walter
Mitty buys one to feel manly. And a few whackos like
them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in
schools, churches,
night clubs, concerts...

Instead of saying "You don't know anything," get
specific. Don't
sidetrack, don't deflect. Tell me exactly what's wrong
in what I wrote.


Well Frank, since you insist.

"They aren't the best hunting rifle..."

Actually the AR-15 weighs about 6.5 lbs and I can assure
you that
carrying a 6 lb rifle all day is significantly less
tiring then
carrying a 9 lb rifle.

The .223 Remingtonj, or 5.56×45mm NATO if you prefer is
considered
adequate for up to deer size creatures - wound cavities
age generally
larger then those of the 30-30 Winchester.

"They are not the best gun for hitting a bulls eye at a
target
range...."

I've already shown you some pictures but here are even
mo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5XPV-8db0Q
https://tinyurl.com/y76xmcfa
Note the predominance of the AR/M-16 type.

Here's what I just read about that event: "the yearly
President’s
Hundred match, held at the National Championships, is a
very prestigious
Service Rifle (and Service Pistol) event."

John, if it's an event for "service rifles," it's
probably going to have
a lot of service rifles in it, no? IOW, rifles that are
optimized for
combat duty, not accuracy.

That's not proof that those service

"And a few whackos like them"
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/...uction-is.aspx

The AR-style rifle is the most popular firearm in the
country, with
about 16 million Americans owning them.

You truncated my sentence. I said "And a few whackos like
them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in schools,
churches,
night clubs, concerts..." Unfortunately, that's true,
whether or not
others like them for other reasons.

Sure, some others like them because they they can play
with and assemble
them with lots of different accessories - kind of like
grown up Legos.
But I think most owners like them because owning one
makes them feel manly.

BTW, do you own one?

Frank, you have spent the past several days exposing, over
and over,
and over again, your complete ignorance of guns and shooting.

As above, you state that service rifles used for target
shooting
aren't optimized for accuracy which, once again, exposes
your total
ignorance of the subject as to my personal knowledge
"service rifles
ranging from the M1903 Springfield all the way up through
the AR/M16
type have been optimized for accuracy and your argument
that they
aren't is yet further evidence of your lack of knowledge..

Lets just end this discussion. You have demonstrated your
almost total
lack of knowledge about firearms and you have explained
your apparent
fear of the AR/M16 - it goes pop, pop, pop, as you
described it.

By the way, the Glock series of pistol can be fitted with
a 30 round
magazine and go pop,pop,pop, too. Why aren't you
condemning them?

So Frank, given your lack of knowledge about fire arms -
you seem to
know that the AR type was originally made for the army and
goes
pop,pop,pop and that is bad, but you don't seem to know
that the
plastic Glock pistols were also designed for the army and go
pop,pop,pop, just as many times as the AR type, but
apparently they
aren't bad - I'm ending this discussion.

As you have demonstrated, you simply lack sufficient
knowledge about
the subject to continue the discussion.

(Or to put it another way, "The dumb ass doesn't know what
he is
talking about)

So instead of answering my question, "In the competitions
you linked in videos, how many shots did a typical
contestant fire _in one minute_?" you choose to say "Let's
just end this discussion."

OK. We know the answer well enough without you admitting to it.



Popular competitions use regular rifles, mostly because
people have them:
https://www.nssf.org/shooting/3-gun/

Some situations, very long range targets and specialty
military snipers, use super precision bolt action rifles
(https://barrett.net/products/firearms/model99 for
example). That's a decided outlier among firearms.


That Barrett Mod 99 rifle is built for one thing: "to get the job done." What is the job? Why not get this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZHF...arrettFirearms The Mod 99 is relatively cheap at $4,600-ish, but I could see the discussion with the wife, "I need that rifle to get the job done, honey. C'mon. How'm I supposed to get the job done if I don't have that rifle?" I could see getting it for home defense, but not my home -- some home ten blocks away.

-- Jay Beattie.

I paraphrase the arguments to he

2x12 derailleur bicycles are way too complex. Nobody needs
all those gear selections. Who do you think you are, a Pro?

OK then. Here's my fixie. Light, simple, low maintenance,
fun and nobody borrows a fixed gear!

You must be some kind of fanatic on that offbeat machine.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 8:44:57 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2020 9:43 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 6:02:27 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2020 3:08 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/1/2020 7:19 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 12:15:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 9:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 19:58:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 7:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:49:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


I'm not denying the popularity of the AR style. I'm
explaining it, and
how silly it is, and how detrimental to society.

You are explaining it??? Frank, you have demonstrated
over and over
that you don't know enough about firearms to explain
anything.

I'm explaining that the overall configuration of AR
style rifles is
optimized for man-killing duty. It is light weight and
compact for rapid
movement during combat. It can accept large magazines,
can be quickly
reloaded, uses lighter ammunition so more rounds can be
carried and
shot. It has other features (like pistol grip) that
allow quick motion
and aiming in cluttered combat situations (as opposed
to open field
shooting at a distance).

I'm saying that few of those features are optimum for
what most people
claim as their intended use of guns. ARs are not the
best gun for
hunting anything from deer to mountain goats to
squirrels to ducks to
chipmunks. They are not the best gun for hitting a
bullseye at a target
range. They are not the best gun for home defense.

They are popular mostly because they look like badass
guns, so Walter
Mitty buys one to feel manly. And a few whackos like
them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in
schools, churches,
night clubs, concerts...

Instead of saying "You don't know anything," get
specific. Don't
sidetrack, don't deflect. Tell me exactly what's wrong
in what I wrote.


Well Frank, since you insist.

"They aren't the best hunting rifle..."

Actually the AR-15 weighs about 6.5 lbs and I can assure
you that
carrying a 6 lb rifle all day is significantly less
tiring then
carrying a 9 lb rifle.

The .223 Remingtonj, or 5.56�45mm NATO if you prefer is
considered
adequate for up to deer size creatures - wound cavities
age generally
larger then those of the 30-30 Winchester.

"They are not the best gun for hitting a bulls eye at a
target
range...."

I've already shown you some pictures but here are even
mo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5XPV-8db0Q
https://tinyurl.com/y76xmcfa
Note the predominance of the AR/M-16 type.

Here's what I just read about that event: "the yearly
President’s
Hundred match, held at the National Championships, is a
very prestigious
Service Rifle (and Service Pistol) event."

John, if it's an event for "service rifles," it's
probably going to have
a lot of service rifles in it, no? IOW, rifles that are
optimized for
combat duty, not accuracy.

That's not proof that those service

"And a few whackos like them"
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/...uction-is.aspx

The AR-style rifle is the most popular firearm in the
country, with
about 16 million Americans owning them.

You truncated my sentence. I said "And a few whackos like
them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in schools,
churches,
night clubs, concerts..." Unfortunately, that's true,
whether or not
others like them for other reasons.

Sure, some others like them because they they can play
with and assemble
them with lots of different accessories - kind of like
grown up Legos.
But I think most owners like them because owning one
makes them feel manly.

BTW, do you own one?

Frank, you have spent the past several days exposing, over
and over,
and over again, your complete ignorance of guns and shooting.

As above, you state that service rifles used for target
shooting
aren't optimized for accuracy which, once again, exposes
your total
ignorance of the subject as to my personal knowledge
"service rifles
ranging from the M1903 Springfield all the way up through
the AR/M16
type have been optimized for accuracy and your argument
that they
aren't is yet further evidence of your lack of knowledge..

Lets just end this discussion. You have demonstrated your
almost total
lack of knowledge about firearms and you have explained
your apparent
fear of the AR/M16 - it goes pop, pop, pop, as you
described it.

By the way, the Glock series of pistol can be fitted with
a 30 round
magazine and go pop,pop,pop, too. Why aren't you
condemning them?

So Frank, given your lack of knowledge about fire arms -
you seem to
know that the AR type was originally made for the army and
goes
pop,pop,pop and that is bad, but you don't seem to know
that the
plastic Glock pistols were also designed for the army and go
pop,pop,pop, just as many times as the AR type, but
apparently they
aren't bad - I'm ending this discussion.

As you have demonstrated, you simply lack sufficient
knowledge about
the subject to continue the discussion.

(Or to put it another way, "The dumb ass doesn't know what
he is
talking about)

So instead of answering my question, "In the competitions
you linked in videos, how many shots did a typical
contestant fire _in one minute_?" you choose to say "Let's
just end this discussion."

OK. We know the answer well enough without you admitting to it.



Popular competitions use regular rifles, mostly because
people have them:
https://www.nssf.org/shooting/3-gun/

Some situations, very long range targets and specialty
military snipers, use super precision bolt action rifles
(https://barrett.net/products/firearms/model99 for
example). That's a decided outlier among firearms.


That Barrett Mod 99 rifle is built for one thing: "to get the job done.." What is the job? Why not get this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZHF...arrettFirearms The Mod 99 is relatively cheap at $4,600-ish, but I could see the discussion with the wife, "I need that rifle to get the job done, honey. C'mon. How'm I supposed to get the job done if I don't have that rifle?" I could see getting it for home defense, but not my home -- some home ten blocks away.

-- Jay Beattie.

I paraphrase the arguments to he

2x12 derailleur bicycles are way too complex. Nobody needs
all those gear selections. Who do you think you are, a Pro?

OK then. Here's my fixie. Light, simple, low maintenance,
fun and nobody borrows a fixed gear!

You must be some kind of fanatic on that offbeat machine.

I don't think there is any comparison between a fixie and a 50 cal sniper rifle, really. It's not like you can use a 50 cal sniper rifle to get to work. It doesn't "get the job done" unless your job is being a sniper or imagining that you're a sniper. I have better things to do -- like basically anything. If the time comes that I need to shoot invaders at 1,000 yards, I'll move to the desert. But wait! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcsL...l=CryTremorFan

-- Jay Beattie.

On Friday, 2 October 2020 12:08:39 UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 8:44:57 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2020 9:43 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 6:02:27 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2020 3:08 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/1/2020 7:19 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 12:15:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 9:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 19:58:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 7:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:49:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


I'm not denying the popularity of the AR style. I'm
explaining it, and
how silly it is, and how detrimental to society.

You are explaining it??? Frank, you have demonstrated
over and over
that you don't know enough about firearms to explain
anything.

I'm explaining that the overall configuration of AR
style rifles is
optimized for man-killing duty. It is light weight and
compact for rapid
movement during combat. It can accept large magazines,
can be quickly
reloaded, uses lighter ammunition so more rounds can be
carried and
shot. It has other features (like pistol grip) that
allow quick motion
and aiming in cluttered combat situations (as opposed
to open field
shooting at a distance).

I'm saying that few of those features are optimum for
what most people
claim as their intended use of guns. ARs are not the
best gun for
hunting anything from deer to mountain goats to
squirrels to ducks to
chipmunks. They are not the best gun for hitting a
bullseye at a target
range. They are not the best gun for home defense.

They are popular mostly because they look like badass
guns, so Walter
Mitty buys one to feel manly. And a few whackos like
them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in
schools, churches,
night clubs, concerts...

Instead of saying "You don't know anything," get
specific. Don't
sidetrack, don't deflect. Tell me exactly what's wrong
in what I wrote.


Well Frank, since you insist.

"They aren't the best hunting rifle..."

Actually the AR-15 weighs about 6.5 lbs and I can assure
you that
carrying a 6 lb rifle all day is significantly less
tiring then
carrying a 9 lb rifle.

The .223 Remingtonj, or 5.56�45mm NATO if you prefer is
considered
adequate for up to deer size creatures - wound cavities
age generally
larger then those of the 30-30 Winchester.

"They are not the best gun for hitting a bulls eye at a
target
range...."

I've already shown you some pictures but here are even
mo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5XPV-8db0Q
https://tinyurl.com/y76xmcfa
Note the predominance of the AR/M-16 type.

Here's what I just read about that event: "the yearly
President’s
Hundred match, held at the National Championships, is a
very prestigious
Service Rifle (and Service Pistol) event."

John, if it's an event for "service rifles," it's
probably going to have
a lot of service rifles in it, no? IOW, rifles that are
optimized for
combat duty, not accuracy.

That's not proof that those service

"And a few whackos like them"
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/...uction-is.aspx

The AR-style rifle is the most popular firearm in the
country, with
about 16 million Americans owning them.

You truncated my sentence. I said "And a few whackos like
them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in schools,
churches,
night clubs, concerts..." Unfortunately, that's true,
whether or not
others like them for other reasons.

Sure, some others like them because they they can play
with and assemble
them with lots of different accessories - kind of like
grown up Legos.
But I think most owners like them because owning one
makes them feel manly.

BTW, do you own one?

Frank, you have spent the past several days exposing, over
and over,
and over again, your complete ignorance of guns and shooting.

As above, you state that service rifles used for target
shooting
aren't optimized for accuracy which, once again, exposes
your total
ignorance of the subject as to my personal knowledge
"service rifles
ranging from the M1903 Springfield all the way up through
the AR/M16
type have been optimized for accuracy and your argument
that they
aren't is yet further evidence of your lack of knowledge..

Lets just end this discussion. You have demonstrated your
almost total
lack of knowledge about firearms and you have explained
your apparent
fear of the AR/M16 - it goes pop, pop, pop, as you
described it.

By the way, the Glock series of pistol can be fitted with
a 30 round
magazine and go pop,pop,pop, too. Why aren't you
condemning them?

So Frank, given your lack of knowledge about fire arms -
you seem to
know that the AR type was originally made for the army and
goes
pop,pop,pop and that is bad, but you don't seem to know
that the
plastic Glock pistols were also designed for the army and go
pop,pop,pop, just as many times as the AR type, but
apparently they
aren't bad - I'm ending this discussion.

As you have demonstrated, you simply lack sufficient
knowledge about
the subject to continue the discussion.

(Or to put it another way, "The dumb ass doesn't know what
he is
talking about)

So instead of answering my question, "In the competitions
you linked in videos, how many shots did a typical
contestant fire _in one minute_?" you choose to say "Let's
just end this discussion."

OK. We know the answer well enough without you admitting to it.



Popular competitions use regular rifles, mostly because
people have them:
https://www.nssf.org/shooting/3-gun/

Some situations, very long range targets and specialty
military snipers, use super precision bolt action rifles
(https://barrett.net/products/firearms/model99 for
example). That's a decided outlier among firearms.


That Barrett Mod 99 rifle is built for one thing: "to get the job done." What is the job? Why not get this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZHF...arrettFirearms The Mod 99 is relatively cheap at $4,600-ish, but I could see the discussion with the wife, "I need that rifle to get the job done, honey. C'mon. How'm I supposed to get the job done if I don't have that rifle?" I could see getting it for home defense, but not my home -- some home ten blocks away.

-- Jay Beattie.

I paraphrase the arguments to he

2x12 derailleur bicycles are way too complex. Nobody needs
all those gear selections. Who do you think you are, a Pro?

OK then. Here's my fixie. Light, simple, low maintenance,
fun and nobody borrows a fixed gear!

You must be some kind of fanatic on that offbeat machine.

I don't think there is any comparison between a fixie and a 50 cal sniper rifle, really. It's not like you can use a 50 cal sniper rifle to get to work. It doesn't "get the job done" unless your job is being a sniper or imagining that you're a sniper. I have better things to do -- like basically anything. If the time comes that I need to shoot invaders at 1,000 yards, I'll move to the desert. But wait! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcsL...l=CryTremorFan

-- Jay Beattie.

A LOT of people buy certain firearms because those people ENJOY firing them.. Those people don't pretend to be snipers or soldiers; they just enjoy the experience of using their rifle.

Similar to people who buy the high end bicycle with high-end components and then all the bicycling clothing. Those people may not intend to ever race their bicycle but they enjoy their bicycle and their kit. That doesn't make them a nut.

Cheers

On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 11:02:10 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 2 October 2020 12:08:39 UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 8:44:57 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2020 9:43 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 6:02:27 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/2/2020 3:08 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/1/2020 7:19 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 12:15:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 9:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 19:58:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/30/2020 7:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:49:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


I'm not denying the popularity of the AR style. I'm
explaining it, and
how silly it is, and how detrimental to society.

You are explaining it??? Frank, you have demonstrated
over and over
that you don't know enough about firearms to explain
anything.

I'm explaining that the overall configuration of AR
style rifles is
optimized for man-killing duty. It is light weight and
compact for rapid
movement during combat. It can accept large magazines,
can be quickly
reloaded, uses lighter ammunition so more rounds can be
carried and
shot. It has other features (like pistol grip) that
allow quick motion
and aiming in cluttered combat situations (as opposed
to open field
shooting at a distance).

I'm saying that few of those features are optimum for
what most people
claim as their intended use of guns. ARs are not the
best gun for
hunting anything from deer to mountain goats to
squirrels to ducks to
chipmunks. They are not the best gun for hitting a
bullseye at a target
range. They are not the best gun for home defense.

They are popular mostly because they look like badass
guns, so Walter
Mitty buys one to feel manly. And a few whackos like
them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in
schools, churches,
night clubs, concerts...

Instead of saying "You don't know anything," get
specific. Don't
sidetrack, don't deflect. Tell me exactly what's wrong
in what I wrote.


Well Frank, since you insist.

"They aren't the best hunting rifle..."

Actually the AR-15 weighs about 6.5 lbs and I can assure
you that
carrying a 6 lb rifle all day is significantly less
tiring then
carrying a 9 lb rifle.

The .223 Remingtonj, or 5.56�45mm NATO if you prefer is
considered
adequate for up to deer size creatures - wound cavities
age generally
larger then those of the 30-30 Winchester.

"They are not the best gun for hitting a bulls eye at a
target
range...."

I've already shown you some pictures but here are even
mo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5XPV-8db0Q
https://tinyurl.com/y76xmcfa
Note the predominance of the AR/M-16 type.

Here's what I just read about that event: "the yearly
President’s
Hundred match, held at the National Championships, is a
very prestigious
Service Rifle (and Service Pistol) event."

John, if it's an event for "service rifles," it's
probably going to have
a lot of service rifles in it, no? IOW, rifles that are
optimized for
combat duty, not accuracy.

That's not proof that those service

"And a few whackos like them"
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/...uction-is.aspx

The AR-style rifle is the most popular firearm in the
country, with
about 16 million Americans owning them.

You truncated my sentence. I said "And a few whackos like
them because
they're really good at killing lots of people in schools,
churches,
night clubs, concerts..." Unfortunately, that's true,
whether or not
others like them for other reasons.

Sure, some others like them because they they can play
with and assemble
them with lots of different accessories - kind of like
grown up Legos.
But I think most owners like them because owning one
makes them feel manly.

BTW, do you own one?

Frank, you have spent the past several days exposing, over
and over,
and over again, your complete ignorance of guns and shooting.

As above, you state that service rifles used for target
shooting
aren't optimized for accuracy which, once again, exposes
your total
ignorance of the subject as to my personal knowledge
"service rifles
ranging from the M1903 Springfield all the way up through
the AR/M16
type have been optimized for accuracy and your argument
that they
aren't is yet further evidence of your lack of knowledge..

Lets just end this discussion. You have demonstrated your
almost total
lack of knowledge about firearms and you have explained
your apparent
fear of the AR/M16 - it goes pop, pop, pop, as you
described it.

By the way, the Glock series of pistol can be fitted with
a 30 round
magazine and go pop,pop,pop, too. Why aren't you
condemning them?

So Frank, given your lack of knowledge about fire arms -
you seem to
know that the AR type was originally made for the army and
goes
pop,pop,pop and that is bad, but you don't seem to know
that the
plastic Glock pistols were also designed for the army and go
pop,pop,pop, just as many times as the AR type, but
apparently they
aren't bad - I'm ending this discussion.

As you have demonstrated, you simply lack sufficient
knowledge about
the subject to continue the discussion.

(Or to put it another way, "The dumb ass doesn't know what
he is
talking about)

So instead of answering my question, "In the competitions
you linked in videos, how many shots did a typical
contestant fire _in one minute_?" you choose to say "Let's
just end this discussion."

OK. We know the answer well enough without you admitting to it.



Popular competitions use regular rifles, mostly because
people have them:
https://www.nssf.org/shooting/3-gun/

Some situations, very long range targets and specialty
military snipers, use super precision bolt action rifles
(https://barrett.net/products/firearms/model99 for
example). That's a decided outlier among firearms.


That Barrett Mod 99 rifle is built for one thing: "to get the job done." What is the job? Why not get this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZHF...arrettFirearms The Mod 99 is relatively cheap at $4,600-ish, but I could see the discussion with the wife, "I need that rifle to get the job done, honey. C'mon. How'm I supposed to get the job done if I don't have that rifle?" I could see getting it for home defense, but not my home -- some home ten blocks away.

-- Jay Beattie.

I paraphrase the arguments to he

2x12 derailleur bicycles are way too complex. Nobody needs
all those gear selections. Who do you think you are, a Pro?

OK then. Here's my fixie. Light, simple, low maintenance,
fun and nobody borrows a fixed gear!

You must be some kind of fanatic on that offbeat machine.

I don't think there is any comparison between a fixie and a 50 cal sniper rifle, really. It's not like you can use a 50 cal sniper rifle to get to work. It doesn't "get the job done" unless your job is being a sniper or imagining that you're a sniper. I have better things to do -- like basically anything. If the time comes that I need to shoot invaders at 1,000 yards, I'll move to the desert. But wait! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcsL...l=CryTremorFan

-- Jay Beattie.

A LOT of people buy certain firearms because those people ENJOY firing them. Those people don't pretend to be snipers or soldiers; they just enjoy the experience of using their rifle.

Similar to people who buy the high end bicycle with high-end components and then all the bicycling clothing. Those people may not intend to ever race their bicycle but they enjoy their bicycle and their kit. That doesn't make them a nut.

Sure, I get it. I've shot a lot of military weapons because I had a friend who was a SWAT officer and one who was just a gun nut with a MAC-10, auto shotguns, etc., etc. I even own an M-1 carbine, which I inherited. In fact, I inherited a bunch of handguns and rifles. I understand the desire to go plinking with an AR15 variant.

Nonetheless, there is no comparison between owning a fixie or wearing a polka-dot jersey or being fat and owning an S-Works and owning a 50 cal sniper rifle. "Hey, I'm just an ordinary guy with a 50 cal sniper rifle." You don't just buy that. And I got to tell you, my friends with big shoot-em-up guns definitely trended towards survivalist. That is far too much paranoia for me. There is a point at which there is no neutral reason for owning serious military hardware.

-- Jay Beattie.