Groupsets

wrote:
On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 4:41:17 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/4/2020 12:57 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 6:43:57 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/4/2020 10:48 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020 at 7:12:54 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Adjusting pads is sort of a side issue, since I was talking only about
force on the controls. Although to me, not needing to adjust hydraulic
disc pads is kind of balanced by needing to prissily clean things with
cotton swabs when replacing pads.

I don't clean my disc calipers with cotton swabs. I just drop in a set of pads.

Admittedly, I haven't done it because I don't use those brakes. But
these guys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQXFFgRButo seem to say it's
important to get the Q-tips out. See about 2:20 and about 3:20 onward.

Is that only for super grungy brakes?

--
- Frank Krygowski

You never pry the metal parts out of the brake pads because they are
grinding away the rims? That is more time consuming than running a swap
along the pistons when changing the brake pads, which is also quicker
than changing the brake pads of rim brakes.

I've done that picking exercise on rim brake shoes, but not very often,
and not for years now. As I recall, it was necessary only rarely, and
after a rain ride. These days I can usually avoid riding in the rain. In
any case, it never took more than a minute or so.

I don't doubt that changing disc pads is faster than changing caliper
brake shoes. OTOH, from what I hear, disc pads need changed more
frequently. I'd bet the overall time difference (i.e. total time spent
per year) is minimal.

Disks at least Hydraulic are to be honest much less, they self adjust pad
wear, pads are easy to change, for commuting the fact that they have no
cable to get gummed up, you do need to replace the oil, but it’s easy to
feel when that is, the brakes start to have a wooden feel, every few years
or so.

They really are very easy to live with, they dislike oil so don’t spray any
thing remotely near them, don’t fiddle they generally dislike cleaning
products ie disk cleaning sprays and like. Hose off the dirt and leave be,
and they are happy!

I'll repeat what I was told by one bicycle tourist that we hosted: Never
do a really long ride without packing a spare set of pads. His pads wore
to nothing and he found himself effectively without brakes until he
could locate a bike shop in hilly, remote northern Pennsylvania.


Unless your down hill MTB in mid winter, pads even on wet gritty roads will
last a long time, mine normally last 1500 ish miles on the commute bike and
gravel which I ride on similar surfaces.

In short pads are not exactly heavy or big, or hard to fit if your touring
it would seem like a sensible thing to pack, it does remind me of stories
of early road disks, folks deliberately or simply ham fisted, dragging the
brakes down long descents at which point you get brake fade.

Personally since I like MTB/Gravel disks last longer, rim brake pads on
pratically wet gritty rides I could wear though in only 2/3 rides.

Roger Merriman

Most cars don't leak oil anymore but a lot of Trucks still do so riding
in the wet CAN cover your disks in oil. Aluminum rims and caliper brakes
seem less sensitive to this. I can't tell you how pleased I am to get
back on aluminum rims.

Part of my commute has a lot of industrial, and thus do get oily bits, thus
far I’ve yet to have a issue with oil on the brakes due to surface, bar the
occasional groan.

Roger Merriman

On Friday, June 5, 2020 at 10:42:45 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, June 5, 2020 at 7:26:31 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 5, 2020 at 10:16:26 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, June 5, 2020 at 9:41:47 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, June 5, 2020 at 5:54:54 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/4/2020 9:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 5:38:21 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/4/2020 6:19 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

DT shifters and five speed are fashion -- conspicuous contrarianism.

Really? At what point in time did my good friend, who has ridden her
Trek since the 1980s, transition from "I just love this bike" to "I'm
only doing this to be contrarian"?

I use all my 11 cassette cogs. I could give one up, but why? My little lunch ride today was our standard loop of 16 miles and 1600 feet of climbing, full speed trying to keep up with my buddy. Except for the roll into town (to see the post-riot damage), everything was some degree of up or down. I shifted my way nicely up and down the cassette, enjoying each and every cog.

I'm glad you love those cute little things, but: What did you have
before the 11? Was it a 10? Was there really a time you said "Damn, I
just hate that there are only ten cogs back there! When, oh when, will
they invent an 11?"

I doubt it. You probably told your ten cogs "You are all individuals,
but I love each of you equally!"

Seriously, I _never_ heard a cyclist complain about having the maximum
number of cogs then on the market. But every time the industry did the
N+1 move, there was quiet pride by the new owners who showed off their
N+1 and slight envy by the guys who had only N.

That was GM's 1960s tactic: "Wouldn't you rather have THIS year's model?"


You have all these imagined scenarios. I don't know anyone who went out and bought 11sp simply because it became available. I was riding 10sp until my wife drove my Supersix under a low overhang when it was up on a roof rack. I also had 10sp on my CAAD 9, but that went off to Utah with my son. I know I had some eight speed shifters, and I think I put those on my sons old beater Windsor. My first STI bike was eight speed.

I had 9 speed on my commuter, but I wanted to shift to hydraulic discs, so I went to 11sp. That was probably a mistake, and I should have found some 9speed hydraulic levers. Shimano does make them. So I have some redundant 9sp Tiagra levers sitting in a box downstairs.

I had 7 speed on my old touring bike, which I did upgrade to eight speed STI because the bike was spec'd with bar-ends, which I hate. I gave that bike away. My tandem had seven or eight speed ERGO. I sold that. I have one-speed on my track bike.

Anyway, the difference between 10 and 11 is, of course, one. I was riding 10sp 12-25/26 cassette, so I got a 28 on the 11sp. I like that 28 a lot these days. And I get to keep all my close range gears. What's not to like?

Jay, I'm not saying masses of people threw away 10 speed bikes when 11s
came out.

But I am saying that if someone drove into a garage and wrecked an 8
speed they never complained about, they would buy a 9 speed to replace
it. Repeat for 10, 11 and now perhaps 12.

The important point is this: They were not unhappy with N gears until
N+1 came out. But by golly, when the opportunity arose, they would find
some way to justify N+1.

They just went with the flow. It is easier today to get 11 speed stuff then 7 speed. Don't over analyze this.

Lou

I had to go with 11 speeds because getting 10 speed stuff was more expensive. Shimano isn't rebuildable so the 10 speed stuff is throw-away and the Campy parts to rebuild the levers was getting scarce.

The one weakness of the Shimano Dura Ace 11 appears to be that it doesn't have a cable adjuster for the front derailleur and it is a real bear to get exactly the right cable tension.

I don't get that. You can always put in an in-line barrel adjuster, no? Is there something about Dura Ace that prevents that?

-- Jay Beattie.

No, build up a bike for a friend a couple of weeks ago wit DA. The inline adjuster was included in the goupset.


Lou, had a haircut today.

I'm glad that your friend could buy a groupset for 3-4 times as much as I paid for the individual new parts.

I wish that I had a haircut.

On Friday, June 5, 2020 at 12:49:35 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/5/2020 11:49 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 4:01:48 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/4/2020 5:29 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 12:30:27 AM UTC-7, Dennis Davis wrote:
In article ,
jbeattie wrote:

...

I think that the curmudgeon handbook, chapter six, has a lengthy
discussion of the benefits of DT friction shifters. IIRC,
they a (1) slow and imprecise shifting, (2) missed shifts,
(3) conspicuous contrarianism, (4) longevity like an incurable
skin condition, (5) inconvenient location, and (6) conspicuous
contrarianism. Clearly superior to any STI/Ergo like system.

A double dose of "conspicuous contrarianism" ("3" and "6"). Isn't
that overkill?

Perhaps (6) is better replaced by:

(6) Requires levels of skill not present in modern cyclists.


...I'm planning to put some Simplex Retrofriction downtube levers on
my next bike...
--
Dennis Davis

I think more accurate would be "requires total lack of skills that modern cyclists have." Anyone that rides downtube shifters or centerpull brakes in this day and age is either penniless or stupid or both.


harumph.
I have a Zeus Alfa centerpull on the front of my three speed
to replace the Universal 61 destroyed when a rental truck
ran me down. It's been no trouble at all since installed,
1998 or so.



And you have wrists like Hercules trying to get a bike to stop. Even the change from the 2015 Campy brakes to the Skeleton brakes made a huge difference in hand pressure.

There is a descent I did yesterday where the road comes around a turn and comes to a stop sign with about a 16% grade. Just the carbon rim pads make it almost impossible to stop at the stop sign until I changed over to Campy Carbon pads. It made such a huge difference in hand pressure I wonder what it is going to do to brake surface life.

The aluminum rims I'm now using on the Madone are like a return to heaven.

The cantilever Brakes I was using on my cyclocross bikes make stopping under difficult conditions scary until I changed to V-brakes. The very fact that so many people have changed to disk brakes is proof that people did NOT like not having effective brakes. Not having to worry about how effective your brakes are makes a huge difference in the way people ride.

You would be wrong about that. One or two fingers are enough
for most riding and it will lock up with moderate hand
pressure (unlike the very cute but crappy performance
Sturmey drum rear).

Then again my front rim's a Red Label. On chinese carbon
wonder wheels, all bets are off.

On the gravel/cyclocross bikes I had with cantilever brakes and Campy aluminum rims you have to pull with all of your might to stop the bike returning on that particular downgrade stop sign. I would prey no cars were coming for that I could roll it.

Installing V-brakes made all of the difference in the world.

On Friday, June 5, 2020 at 1:36:39 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 5 June 2020 15:55:32 UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 6:33:04 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 12:30:27 AM UTC-7, Dennis Davis wrote:
In article ,
jbeattie wrote:

...

I think that the curmudgeon handbook, chapter six, has a lengthy
discussion of the benefits of DT friction shifters. IIRC,
they a (1) slow and imprecise shifting, (2) missed shifts,
(3) conspicuous contrarianism, (4) longevity like an incurable
skin condition, (5) inconvenient location, and (6) conspicuous
contrarianism. Clearly superior to any STI/Ergo like system.

A double dose of "conspicuous contrarianism" ("3" and "6"). Isn't
that overkill?

Perhaps (6) is better replaced by:

(6) Requires levels of skill not present in modern cyclists.


...I'm planning to put some Simplex Retrofriction downtube levers on
my next bike...
--
Dennis Davis

I think more accurate would be "requires total lack of skills that
modern cyclists have." Anyone that rides downtube shifters or
centerpull brakes in this day and age is either penniless or stupid or
both.

Thanks, Tom. I'm not penniless, I must be stupid.

Then explain how you have a downtube shifter bike? Unless you make a
effort to collect classic bikes you can't even find downtube shifters
anymore. I had a hard enough time getting bar ends for my touring
bike. And I've never even used it and it is sitting in the backyard

I bought one in 1978, still ride it. Some parts are new.

I can only guess that Tom either doesn't know about Google or he refuses to accept anything that Google returns that Tom doesn't agree with. Downtube shifters ARE READILY availlable.

https://www.amazon.com/downtube-shif...ntube+shifters

Jensen has downtube shifters and bar-end shifters too.

https://www.jensonusa.com/search?q=downtube+shifters

Lots of downtube shifters on Ebay.

https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from...&_sacat=177824

Lots of bar end shifters on Ebay too.

https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from...ntube+shifters

Tom's usually wrong about just about every subject he posts on.

Cheers

I would particularly like moving up to the 9 speed downtube shifters.

On Friday, June 5, 2020 at 1:44:29 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
wrote:


Most cars don't leak oil anymore but a lot of Trucks still do so riding
in the wet CAN cover your disks in oil. Aluminum rims and caliper brakes
seem less sensitive to this. I can't tell you how pleased I am to get
back on aluminum rims.

Part of my commute has a lot of industrial, and thus do get oily bits, thus
far I’ve yet to have a issue with oil on the brakes due to surface, bar the
occasional groan.

Roger Merriman

The brakes on my Redline groan a lot. I think that has something to do with them being polished from use. They didn't do that bef

On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 09:41:44 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, June 5, 2020 at 5:54:54 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/4/2020 9:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 5:38:21 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/4/2020 6:19 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

DT shifters and five speed are fashion -- conspicuous contrarianism.

Really? At what point in time did my good friend, who has ridden her
Trek since the 1980s, transition from "I just love this bike" to "I'm
only doing this to be contrarian"?

I use all my 11 cassette cogs. I could give one up, but why? My little lunch ride today was our standard loop of 16 miles and 1600 feet of climbing, full speed trying to keep up with my buddy. Except for the roll into town (to see the post-riot damage), everything was some degree of up or down. I shifted my way nicely up and down the cassette, enjoying each and every cog.

I'm glad you love those cute little things, but: What did you have
before the 11? Was it a 10? Was there really a time you said "Damn, I
just hate that there are only ten cogs back there! When, oh when, will
they invent an 11?"

I doubt it. You probably told your ten cogs "You are all individuals,
but I love each of you equally!"

Seriously, I _never_ heard a cyclist complain about having the maximum
number of cogs then on the market. But every time the industry did the
N+1 move, there was quiet pride by the new owners who showed off their
N+1 and slight envy by the guys who had only N.

That was GM's 1960s tactic: "Wouldn't you rather have THIS year's model?"


You have all these imagined scenarios. I don't know anyone who went out and bought 11sp simply because it became available. I was riding 10sp until my wife drove my Supersix under a low overhang when it was up on a roof rack. I also had 10sp on my CAAD 9, but that went off to Utah with my son. I know I had some eight speed shifters, and I think I put those on my sons old beater Windsor. My first STI bike was eight speed.

I had 9 speed on my commuter, but I wanted to shift to hydraulic discs, so I went to 11sp. That was probably a mistake, and I should have found some 9speed hydraulic levers. Shimano does make them. So I have some redundant 9sp Tiagra levers sitting in a box downstairs.

I had 7 speed on my old touring bike, which I did upgrade to eight speed STI because the bike was spec'd with bar-ends, which I hate. I gave that bike away. My tandem had seven or eight speed ERGO. I sold that. I have one-speed on my track bike.

Anyway, the difference between 10 and 11 is, of course, one. I was riding 10sp 12-25/26 cassette, so I got a 28 on the 11sp. I like that 28 a lot these days. And I get to keep all my close range gears. What's not to like?

Jay, I'm not saying masses of people threw away 10 speed bikes when 11s
came out.

But I am saying that if someone drove into a garage and wrecked an 8
speed they never complained about, they would buy a 9 speed to replace
it. Repeat for 10, 11 and now perhaps 12.

The important point is this: They were not unhappy with N gears until
N+1 came out. But by golly, when the opportunity arose, they would find
some way to justify N+1.

They just went with the flow. It is easier today to get 11 speed stuff then 7 speed. Don't over analyze this.

Lou

In fact 9 speed is not stocked at the bike shops I trade at. They
might have some old 9 speed stuff left over from years past but they
certainly aren't ordering any more.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 10:12:03 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 6:33:04 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 12:30:27 AM UTC-7, Dennis Davis wrote:
In article ,
jbeattie wrote:

...

I think that the curmudgeon handbook, chapter six, has a lengthy
discussion of the benefits of DT friction shifters. IIRC,
they a (1) slow and imprecise shifting, (2) missed shifts,
(3) conspicuous contrarianism, (4) longevity like an incurable
skin condition, (5) inconvenient location, and (6) conspicuous
contrarianism. Clearly superior to any STI/Ergo like system.

A double dose of "conspicuous contrarianism" ("3" and "6"). Isn't
that overkill?

Perhaps (6) is better replaced by:

(6) Requires levels of skill not present in modern cyclists.


...I'm planning to put some Simplex Retrofriction downtube levers on
my next bike...
--
Dennis Davis

I think more accurate would be "requires total lack of skills that
modern cyclists have." Anyone that rides downtube shifters or
centerpull brakes in this day and age is either penniless or stupid or
both.

Thanks, Tom. I'm not penniless, I must be stupid.

Then explain how you have a downtube shifter bike? Unless you make a effort to collect classic bikes you can't even find downtube shifters anymore. I had a

You didn't look
https://tinyurl.com/y9boh2gh

hard enough time getting bar ends for my touring bike. And I've never
even used it and it is sitting in the backyard
--
cheers,

John B.

Am Wed, 3 Jun 2020 16:28:48 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
:

On 6/3/2020 3:33 PM, wrote:

The end result would be a shifting/braking system that has extremely light touch without ever having to recharge a battery. What do you gain by electronic shifting other than automatic compensation for front chain-line?

I'm puzzled by the high value some people place on a "light touch,"
whether braking or shifting. ISTM light acting controls are a benefit
only up to a point.

Of course. But light acting doesn't come for free with mechanical
devices.

I own and ride a road bike equipped with a an Ultegra 3x10 group from
2010 (6703, AFAIR) and I'm quite happy with it. Changing gears ist
easy, fast and works like a charm. Except when it it doesn't. Problem
is, the construction is a mechanical nightmare. I bought it specifically
because both cables (bowden cable?), both those for braking and those
for changing gears are routed along the handle bar, so that there is
enough space between the handles to moutn a large Ortlieb handlebar bag.
Have look at
https://pluspora.com/posts/296e60b0625701384a38005056264835, fifth
picture or
https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20200416/DSC01809.jpg

Changing the inner cable is difficult, when one of the wires is already
broken. Somehow I damaged an tiny spring while removing the old cable.
In consequence, the whole expensive grip had to be replaced.
Unfortunately, this happended a few days before heading to the south of
france for an already booked holiday resort. Problem: Shimano doesn't
sell that part, anymore, none of our local shops had one in stock, the
national distributor didn't, either, there aren't any compatible parts,
neither cheaper nor more expensive ones (neither 105 nor tiagra are
compatible). After some frantic phone calls, in the very last minute,
I got a shop who had the part and could be talked into installing it
(with more time, I'd preferred to install it myself). Pfffht.

So now I own a bike with a very precious shifter, which works quite well
as long as it lasts.

A year before, during a long vaccation in france, one of my sons visited
for a few days. For two days, he rent a road bike (a worn BMC, if I
remember right) equipped with an old Verision of a Di2 group. I took the
opportunity to ride it too for a while, and was surprised how well and
smoothly it worked.

These parts are certainly expensive, mostly because Shimano is able to
charge that much money for it, not because these are complicated. IMHO,
these are much simpler machines than the purely mechanical 6703 parts.

I'm currently not going to buy a new bike, but when I do, i'll consider
a Di2 group, mostly because it's a much more robust construct. Some
goodies like some automatic shifting are welcome too, though.

But mainly, I'd really like to get rid of all those arkwardly routed
cables, which break much to often.

--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 13:36:36 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, 5 June 2020 15:55:32 UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 6:33:04 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 12:30:27 AM UTC-7, Dennis Davis wrote:
In article ,
jbeattie wrote:

...

I think that the curmudgeon handbook, chapter six, has a lengthy
discussion of the benefits of DT friction shifters. IIRC,
they a (1) slow and imprecise shifting, (2) missed shifts,
(3) conspicuous contrarianism, (4) longevity like an incurable
skin condition, (5) inconvenient location, and (6) conspicuous
contrarianism. Clearly superior to any STI/Ergo like system.

A double dose of "conspicuous contrarianism" ("3" and "6"). Isn't
that overkill?

Perhaps (6) is better replaced by:

(6) Requires levels of skill not present in modern cyclists.


...I'm planning to put some Simplex Retrofriction downtube levers on
my next bike...
--
Dennis Davis

I think more accurate would be "requires total lack of skills that
modern cyclists have." Anyone that rides downtube shifters or
centerpull brakes in this day and age is either penniless or stupid or
both.

Thanks, Tom. I'm not penniless, I must be stupid.

Then explain how you have a downtube shifter bike? Unless you make a
effort to collect classic bikes you can't even find downtube shifters
anymore. I had a hard enough time getting bar ends for my touring
bike. And I've never even used it and it is sitting in the backyard

I bought one in 1978, still ride it. Some parts are new.

I can only guess that Tom either doesn't know about Google or he refuses to accept anything that Google returns that Tom doesn't agree with. Downtube shifters ARE READILY availlable.

https://www.amazon.com/downtube-shif...ntube+shifters

Jensen has downtube shifters and bar-end shifters too.

https://www.jensonusa.com/search?q=downtube+shifters

Lots of downtube shifters on Ebay.

https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from...&_sacat=177824

Lots of bar end shifters on Ebay too.

https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from...ntube+shifters

Tom's usually wrong about just about every subject he posts on.

Cheers

Usually?
--
cheers,

John B.

On Friday, 5 June 2020 19:32:28 UTC-4, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Wed, 3 Jun 2020 16:28:48 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
:

On 6/3/2020 3:33 PM, wrote:

The end result would be a shifting/braking system that has extremely light touch without ever having to recharge a battery. What do you gain by electronic shifting other than automatic compensation for front chain-line?

I'm puzzled by the high value some people place on a "light touch,"
whether braking or shifting. ISTM light acting controls are a benefit
only up to a point.

Of course. But light acting doesn't come for free with mechanical
devices.

I own and ride a road bike equipped with a an Ultegra 3x10 group from
2010 (6703, AFAIR) and I'm quite happy with it. Changing gears ist
easy, fast and works like a charm. Except when it it doesn't. Problem
is, the construction is a mechanical nightmare. I bought it specifically
because both cables (bowden cable?), both those for braking and those
for changing gears are routed along the handle bar, so that there is
enough space between the handles to moutn a large Ortlieb handlebar bag.
Have look at
https://pluspora.com/posts/296e60b0625701384a38005056264835, fifth
picture or
https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20200416/DSC01809.jpg

Changing the inner cable is difficult, when one of the wires is already
broken. Somehow I damaged an tiny spring while removing the old cable.
In consequence, the whole expensive grip had to be replaced.
Unfortunately, this happended a few days before heading to the south of
france for an already booked holiday resort. Problem: Shimano doesn't
sell that part, anymore, none of our local shops had one in stock, the
national distributor didn't, either, there aren't any compatible parts,
neither cheaper nor more expensive ones (neither 105 nor tiagra are
compatible). After some frantic phone calls, in the very last minute,
I got a shop who had the part and could be talked into installing it
(with more time, I'd preferred to install it myself). Pfffht.

So now I own a bike with a very precious shifter, which works quite well
as long as it lasts.

A year before, during a long vaccation in france, one of my sons visited
for a few days. For two days, he rent a road bike (a worn BMC, if I
remember right) equipped with an old Verision of a Di2 group. I took the
opportunity to ride it too for a while, and was surprised how well and
smoothly it worked.

These parts are certainly expensive, mostly because Shimano is able to
charge that much money for it, not because these are complicated. IMHO,
these are much simpler machines than the purely mechanical 6703 parts.

I'm currently not going to buy a new bike, but when I do, i'll consider
a Di2 group, mostly because it's a much more robust construct. Some
goodies like some automatic shifting are welcome too, though.

But mainly, I'd really like to get rid of all those arkwardly routed
cables, which break much to often.

--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

Your problem with a cable, cable routing, and difficulty repairing a Shimano Brifter are the reasons why I bought Campagnolo Ergo levers bask in 2001. Oh, they're also able to be converted to 8-speed or 10-speed. Another BIG plus is that the left had lever is a ratcheting mechanism which means it can be used with nearly any front derailleur.

Cheers