Bicycles and the Cost of Gas

Neil Brooks wrote:

Also, didn't we just recently bomb the pi$$ out of, and occupy, an oil
producing nation? And doesn't it still cost about $5/barrel to
*extract* oil from the ground?? How come we're (well, not me but...)
still paying so much for gas, anyway??

That's the liberal spin on why the US does anything: Oil!

In fact, the cost of gas should illustrate that oil
acquisition wasn't the sole criteria for the action.

I feel like we've (pick one)

- invaded Canada and can't put together a decent hockey team (or)
- invaded France and can't get decent pastry/wine (or)
- invaded Italy and still can't get a decent veal piccata . . . .

I like your analogies. Does seem like something ain't quite
right.


SMH

bbaka wrote:

We have to pay so much for gas because the government is using it up at
the source playing 'Beat up Iraq' and has only managed to totally ****
off all the Muslim countries, which by the way supply most of our oil.

Nope! About 25% from all of the middle east combined.

That works out to be a big "DUH?". The brilliant Texan weed has also
managed to authorize drilling in the Alaskan wildlife refuge. His logic,
"Oil comes first, screw the wildlife.", probably because he has oil
interests. Too bad we the people can't invade D.C. and put an

Can't we have both wildlife and oil?

intelligent cyclist in the white house. BTW it is over $2.50 a gallon in
my neck of the woods and I saw one station advertising NASCAR gas at
$5.69/gallon and it was only 100 Octane. I am looking at a job 25 miles
away and thinking of riding a bike, Huffy or Mongoose, both cheap, but
on a mix of back roads and highway with cars running by at 65MPH+. Even
with an econo box at 25 MPG average it would still be $5.00/day and
spending that much on food and riding a half century commute every day
would be so much better for me, the environment, and all that stuff. My
biggest expense would be bicycle tires with 250 miles every week, plus
the weekend rides.
Anybody remember the price of gas before Bush decided to play war games?

Price of gas has been about the same for 10 years or so
I think when normalized for inflation.

You know there are other factors in the pricing of oil.
Did you know there is only one oil market? Did you know
China accounts for an increasing demand for the stuff?

Remember what happens to price when demand picks up without
a corresponding increase in supply?


SMH

Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:
Stephen Harding a écrit :

Couldn't help but wonder if the commuter bike population increase
is correlated with the cost of gas.


What is the legality in the English-speaking nations about converting
car-engines to alcohol? Here in France it is _illegal_ because the
government wants to collect a fat tax on gas. Pollute, pollute, pollute
so that you can pay taxes. So far, there has been one nerd on the news
who has started running his car on alcohol and he seemed to be
challenging the authorities to come after him and make a case out of it.
But he was so isolated that they just ignored him and laughed.

I think the thing to do, apart from cycling of course, is to convert
your engines, have a moonshine still in your cellar to make your garden
waste into fuel and practice civil disobedience to challenge the law, if
there is one.

EFR

Ethanol only reduces the pollution since it is still a hydrocarbon you
will get the usual water and CO2from the exhaust. C6H12O2 is the generic
hydrocarbon formula, and varies mainly in how many C, H, or O atoms are
in each. In essence the H12O2 component comes out as H2O (water) and the
C component comes out as CO2,so it is not as clean as you might think.
The only really pure combustible fuel is Hydrogen, which when burned
makes pure H2O (water). Making the hydrogen by way means other than
Hydro, Wind, Solar, ocean wave energy harvesting, or the dreaded
nuclear, results in CO2 from even the cleanest coal or oil burning plant
to make the electricity to do the hydrolysis. Hydrogen vehicles are not
the answer yet until we can produce hydrogen without burning stuff to
generate electricity. I think gigantic wind farms and solar farms
(Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, California) could power the whole country
with passive energy generation.

This scenario will be interesting to watch and see if the government
does something right or just drills and screws up the Alaskan refuge.
Bill Baka

Stephen Harding wrote:
catzz66 wrote:

We have been spoiled with low prices for gasoline. I remember someone
mentioning that gasoline was something like $4 a gallon four years ago
in places like Israel. You don't see too many gas guzzlers over there.


It was about $4.50/gal in the Netherlands a couple
years ago when I was there.

I was rather surprised at the larger than expected
number of American gas guzzlers (some pickup trucks,
but mostly SUV types) I saw. Wasn't expecting that
at all.

Then of course, there was the Smart (minicar). Sorta
neat.


SMH

The minicar was indeed a very neat way to get around but I believe the
US government in their infinite wisdom (yeah, right) banned them for
being too small and possibly killing their drivers. One up on that is
the go-go-mobile of the 1960's which was a one passenger only with a sub
1 liter engine and the front of the car swung out to get in or out. gain
I bet it was government interference that killed them.
Bill Baka

Ken wrote:

Yeah I am sure the cashier would take the extra, however 1 person paying
what Europe pays won't do any good. Now if the real price of gasoline was
what the EU nations pay then there would be less people that feel the need
to drive a huge suv half a block to get a slushy from the local quick-mart!

Do Europeans pay "the real" cost of gas?

I thought they simply tax it at a higher rate, or force
supply priorities on the types of fuel produced, that
result in the price consumers pay. Is that "real"?

Here in the US, I think half, or close to half, the price
of a gallon of gas is state/federal tax.

Europe has simply chosen to prioritize fuel in such a way
that its cost is extremely high compared with that in the
US. Nothing wrong with that if voters don't mind.

Wouldn't go over too well here I think.

And that would be an improvement.

Too painful an improvement I think.


SMH

Stephen Harding wrote:
bbaka wrote:

We have to pay so much for gas because the government is using it up
at the source playing 'Beat up Iraq' and has only managed to totally
**** off all the Muslim countries, which by the way supply most of our
oil.


Nope! About 25% from all of the middle east combined.

That works out to be a big "DUH?". The brilliant Texan weed has also
managed to authorize drilling in the Alaskan wildlife refuge. His
logic, "Oil comes first, screw the wildlife.", probably because he has
oil interests. Too bad we the people can't invade D.C. and put an


Can't we have both wildlife and oil?

intelligent cyclist in the white house. BTW it is over $2.50 a gallon
in my neck of the woods and I saw one station advertising NASCAR gas
at $5.69/gallon and it was only 100 Octane. I am looking at a job 25
miles away and thinking of riding a bike, Huffy or Mongoose, both
cheap, but on a mix of back roads and highway with cars running by at
65MPH+. Even with an econo box at 25 MPG average it would still be
$5.00/day and spending that much on food and riding a half century
commute every day would be so much better for me, the environment, and
all that stuff. My biggest expense would be bicycle tires with 250
miles every week, plus the weekend rides.
Anybody remember the price of gas before Bush decided to play war games?


Price of gas has been about the same for 10 years or so
I think when normalized for inflation.

You know there are other factors in the pricing of oil.
Did you know there is only one oil market? Did you know
China accounts for an increasing demand for the stuff?

Did you notice that big refineries are blowing up mysteriously lately?
That makes the supply and demand even worse. Most of the refineries are
antiques with very little safety features and I am wondering if this
rash of 'accidents' is caused by trying to overproduce or management
letting it happen so they can get insurance money and build more modern
plants?? Is it possible that big business really works that way and a
few 'disposable' workers getting killed does not bother their collective
management conscience if they have one at all.

Remember what happens to price when demand picks up without
a corresponding increase in supply?

One word...SUVs.
Maybe also the tendency to way oversize pickup just to run mom to the
grocery store.


SMH

Bill Baka, in favor of electric for anything under 20 miles.

bbaka wrote:

One word...SUVs.
Maybe also the tendency to way oversize pickup just to run mom to the
grocery store.

Today's SUVs, while larger than they need to be, still get the same
sort of gas mileage than the cars moms drove in the 60's and 70's (on
average). That's due to advances in motor technology and materials,
offsetting the shed-like proportions of today's vehicle of choice.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

"Bill Sornson" wrote in message
...
Neil Brooks wrote:
[...]
I'm just curious why it *didn't* get cheap, considering we bombed the
guys who *didn't* have any WMD, rather than the little Korean guy who
*did* have WMD . . . ostensibly because the former had oil, which is
in our strategic interests, and the latter did not.

Partly, a little something called the insurgency which certain stars of the
current admin said could not possibly happen.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...agoncontra.htm

'In his testimony, Mr. Wolfowitz ticked off several reasons why he believed
a much smaller coalition peacekeeping force than General Shinseki envisioned
would be sufficient to police and rebuild postwar Iraq. He said there was no
history of ethnic strife in Iraq, as there was in Bosnia or Kosovo. He said
Iraqi civilians would welcome an American-led liberation force that "stayed
as long as necessary but left as soon as possible," but would oppose a
long-term occupation force. And he said that nations that oppose war with
Iraq would likely sign up to help rebuild it.'

This insurgency causes, on the one hand, greater uncertainty, hence a
greater premium on price, On the other, it causes supply disruptions when
they do attack a pipeline or other facility.


There are other exogenous factors: China and India's rapid
industrialization, The US's love affair with SUV's, a hangover from the low
prices of the 90's which resulted in a decrease in exploration for new
reserves.

Another indirect factor is the twin current account and budgetary deficits
the US is mired in - the latter being partly due to the cost of occupying
Iraq - another impossibilty according to the same admin stars as Iraq would
be able to pay the cost of it's reconstruction from oil reveenues _before_
oil prices spiked.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Paul_Wolfowitz

'There's a lot of money to pay for this. It doesn't have to be U.S. taxpayer
money. We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own
reconstruction, and relatively soon.'

http://www.americanprogress.org/site...RJ8OVF&b=46752

'Coalition Administrator Paul Bremer has said that current and future oil
revenues will be insufficient for rebuilding Iraq, despite the
administration's prewar promises. Plagued by poor infrastructure, outdated
equipment, sabotage, and continuing attacks on pipelines, the Iraq oil
industry has yet to produce at the CPA target goal of 3 billion barrels a
day. According to a recent report by the Congressional Budget Office, "Iraqi
oil revenues are likely to cover only recurring Iraqi government costs, with
little remaining for the capital investment required in the U.N., World Bank
and CPA assessments."'


Some analysts insists the current price of oil is unjustified, driven by
speculation. If oil is in a speculative bubble then the price could crash
hard and fast.

Maybe that's a clue that it had nothing to do with oil.

If that logic held then a bank robber who was unsuccessful at committing
said robbery could argue that his actions had nothing to do with stealing
money.

IOW: To say that an unsuccessful outcome disproves the motive for acting is
fallacy.

I do enjoy cycling past the gas station and seeing gas at $0.90/litre
though. There is still hope people will conserve - not to save the air we
must breathe; but to save their pocketbooks.

--
'I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round,
I really love to watch them roll'
-John Lennon

"Bill Sornson" wrote:

Neil Brooks wrote:
"Bill Sornson" wrote:

Neil Brooks wrote:

I feel like we've (pick one)

- invaded Canada and can't put together a decent hockey team (or)
- invaded France and can't get decent pastry/wine (or)
- invaded Italy and still can't get a decent veal piccata . . . .

So you're suggesting we should just /take/ all the oil instead of
letting the Iraqi people keep it?

Interesting.

Oh, heck no. I'm the guy who thinks we ought to pay what Europe and
Canada pay for gas.

I'm just curious why it *didn't* get cheap, considering we bombed the
guys who *didn't* have any WMD, rather than the little Korean guy who
*did* have WMD . . . ostensibly because the former had oil, which is
in our strategic interests, and the latter did not.

Maybe that's a clue that it had nothing to do with oil.

Blasphemous Bill


Or . . . equally likely . . . an intentional decision to avoid the
appearance of the starkly obvious.

The masses, somehow, are ok with deposing a brutal, and unimaginably
lethal despot . . . even if he's a puppy-dog with a water pistol
hiding in a hole.

They don't like blood for oil. They also b*tch to the high heavens
about the price of gas and expect the gummint to do something about
it.

Just don't tell us what that something was....

"Ken" wrote:


"Cheto" wrote in message
news

"Neil Brooks" wrote in message

Oh, heck no. I'm the guy who thinks we ought to pay what Europe and
Canada pay for gas.

So what's stopping you? The next time you buy gas tell the cashier you
don't feel you're paying enough. I'm pretty sure he'll take as much as
you
want to pay.

Cheto

Yeah I am sure the cashier would take the extra, however 1 person paying
what Europe pays won't do any good. Now if the real price of gasoline was
what the EU nations pay then there would be less people that feel the need
to drive a huge suv half a block to get a slushy from the local quick-mart!
And that would be an improvement.

Thank you, Ken. I always feel like I'm on the phone with Rush
Limbaugh when a comment like Cheto's comes out.

Lots of bluster, but nothing substantive added to the discussion.

Cheto: note the inclusion of the word "we" in my post.