cyclist holding up traffic

On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 21:45:49 +0100, Rob Morley wrote:

On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 21:09:41 +0100 "John Benn"
wrote:

For goodness sake Rob, why don't you just get it delivered or use a car
to do the weekly shop? I go shopping for groceries once a week which
involves driving 7 miles each way to the nearest supermarket. I also
use the journey to get things from other retailers at the same time.
If we run out of fresh items during the week, we walk to the local
grocers which although expensive, is convenient. No way would I bother
going out of my way to use a bicycle to transport anything more than a
Mars bar and a newspaper.. It's simply not convenient or practical
unless you are determined to make your life as difficult and
time-consuming as possible.

Why don't I do it the way that suits you? Because I do it the way that
suits me.

Good answer!

On Sun, 04 Aug 2013 09:06:32 +0100, John Benn wrote:

"Bertie Wooster" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 21:09:41 +0100, "John Benn"
wrote:

Rob Morley" wrote in message
news:20130803152256.5929257b@hyperion...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 14:50:45 +0100 (Roger Merriman)
wrote:

I find it's the bulky items that are awkward so things like big
boxes of washing powder etc.

A couple of bungees on the rear rack. I find stuff like bread is a
problem, because unlike kitchen/loo roll it doesn't like being
squashed - often I just tie a plastic carrier bag to the back of the
saddle, so it can sit loosely on the rack.

weight isn't much of a issue as such you just end up rather slower
off the mark.

You have to be careful with wobble if it's a skinny frame - a big
load on the back can twist the frame if you apply much force to the
handlebar, which can interfere with stability if you let it build up
into an oscillation. So start smoothly in low gear and don't go too
fast, don't hit potholes ...

For goodness sake Rob, why don't you just get it delivered or use a car
to do the weekly shop? I go shopping for groceries once a week which
involves driving 7 miles each way to the nearest supermarket. I also
use the journey to get things from other retailers at the same time.
If we run out of fresh items during the week, we walk to the local
grocers which although expensive, is convenient. No way would I bother
going out of my way to use a bicycle to transport anything more than a
Mars bar and a newspaper.. It's simply not convenient or practical
unless you are determined to make your life as difficult and
time-consuming as possible.

You could consider the 30 minutes each way as an hour spent in the gym.

Gyms are equally-tedious. I get my exercise hiking, caving and
exploring the countryside.

Each to his own ....

On Sun, 4 Aug 2013 09:06:32 +0100, "John Benn"
wrote:

"Bertie Wooster" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 21:09:41 +0100, "John Benn"
wrote:

Rob Morley" wrote in message
news:20130803152256.5929257b@hyperion...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 14:50:45 +0100
(Roger Merriman) wrote:

I find it's the bulky items that are awkward so things like big boxes
of washing powder etc.

A couple of bungees on the rear rack. I find stuff like bread is a
problem, because unlike kitchen/loo roll it doesn't like being squashed
- often I just tie a plastic carrier bag to the back of the saddle, so
it can sit loosely on the rack.

weight isn't much of a issue as such you just
end up rather slower off the mark.

You have to be careful with wobble if it's a skinny frame - a big load
on the back can twist the frame if you apply much force to the
handlebar, which can interfere with stability if you let it build up
into an oscillation. So start smoothly in low gear and don't go too
fast, don't hit potholes ...

For goodness sake Rob, why don't you just get it delivered or use a car to
do the weekly shop? I go shopping for groceries once a week which
involves
driving 7 miles each way to the nearest supermarket. I also use the
journey
to get things from other retailers at the same time. If we run out of
fresh
items during the week, we walk to the local grocers which although
expensive, is convenient. No way would I bother going out of my way to
use
a bicycle to transport anything more than a Mars bar and a newspaper..
It's
simply not convenient or practical unless you are determined to make your
life as difficult and time-consuming as possible.

You could consider the 30 minutes each way as an hour spent in the
gym.

Gyms are equally-tedious. I get my exercise hiking, caving and exploring
the countryside.

Would you consider exploring the countryside by bike as an alternative
to the current method you employ for exploring the countryside?

"Bertie Wooster" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Aug 2013 09:06:32 +0100, "John Benn"
wrote:

"Bertie Wooster" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 21:09:41 +0100, "John Benn"
wrote:

Rob Morley" wrote in message
news:20130803152256.5929257b@hyperion...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 14:50:45 +0100
(Roger Merriman) wrote:

I find it's the bulky items that are awkward so things like big boxes
of washing powder etc.

A couple of bungees on the rear rack. I find stuff like bread is a
problem, because unlike kitchen/loo roll it doesn't like being
squashed
- often I just tie a plastic carrier bag to the back of the saddle, so
it can sit loosely on the rack.

weight isn't much of a issue as such you just
end up rather slower off the mark.

You have to be careful with wobble if it's a skinny frame - a big load
on the back can twist the frame if you apply much force to the
handlebar, which can interfere with stability if you let it build up
into an oscillation. So start smoothly in low gear and don't go too
fast, don't hit potholes ...

For goodness sake Rob, why don't you just get it delivered or use a car
to
do the weekly shop? I go shopping for groceries once a week which
involves
driving 7 miles each way to the nearest supermarket. I also use the
journey
to get things from other retailers at the same time. If we run out of
fresh
items during the week, we walk to the local grocers which although
expensive, is convenient. No way would I bother going out of my way to
use
a bicycle to transport anything more than a Mars bar and a newspaper..
It's
simply not convenient or practical unless you are determined to make
your
life as difficult and time-consuming as possible.

You could consider the 30 minutes each way as an hour spent in the
gym.

Gyms are equally-tedious. I get my exercise hiking, caving and exploring
the countryside.

Would you consider exploring the countryside by bike as an alternative
to the current method you employ for exploring the countryside?

No, it would be totally impractical.

On Sun, 4 Aug 2013 19:01:20 +0100, "John Benn"
wrote:

Gyms are equally-tedious. I get my exercise hiking, caving and exploring
the countryside.

Would you consider exploring the countryside by bike as an alternative
to the current method you employ for exploring the countryside?

No, it would be totally impractical.

I've spent many happy hours exploring the British, and European,
countryside by bicycle. While there are some places I would not take
my bike, Crib Goch, Anoach Eagach and Striding Edge being three
obvious examples on the British mainland, there are also plenty of
places my bike and I have visited: the Wye Valley, Heartside Summit
and the Hoo Peninsular being three other examples.

For the latter examples, I found my bike to be a very practical way of
exploring the British countryside and exercising away from the gym.

"Bertie Wooster" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Aug 2013 19:01:20 +0100, "John Benn"
wrote:

Gyms are equally-tedious. I get my exercise hiking, caving and
exploring
the countryside.

Would you consider exploring the countryside by bike as an alternative
to the current method you employ for exploring the countryside?

No, it would be totally impractical.

I've spent many happy hours exploring the British, and European,
countryside by bicycle. While there are some places I would not take
my bike, Crib Goch, Anoach Eagach and Striding Edge being three
obvious examples on the British mainland, there are also plenty of
places my bike and I have visited: the Wye Valley, Heartside Summit
and the Hoo Peninsular being three other examples.

For the latter examples, I found my bike to be a very practical way of
exploring the British countryside and exercising away from the gym.

Good for you but you don't know the kind of places I go to and for those, a
bicycle would be pretty much useless.

"Thumper" writes:

I often see cars left by the side of the road causing this type of
obstruction. But this morning I thought to myself enough is enough,
I need to do something about this selfishness. So I resolved to
tackle the problem by making this strongly critical post to usenet.

you should post it to a car or driving group.

He has.

We have been telling Mr. Cheerful for years that his posting habits in
URC would make him go blind!

--
Mark

(Roger Merriman) writes:

"realisticly not illegal"?

Have you heard yourself?

so make your case that it's legally a obstruction! this topic has
comes up at least every other month.

where are the cases of folks being done for obstruction?

all the links and what not that folks have dug up over the years
suggest that a moving vehical is hard to prove to be a obstruction.

In the cases I've read about, they don't even get that far. As soon as
the defendant is found to have been [at least occasionally] making
progress, they are acquitted on the highway obstruction charge. The
prosecution is not given a chance to prove their case (in open court),
possibly because there is simply no legal argument which could succeed.
It might even be the first bullet point in the relevant section of
Blackstone's.

--
Mark

"Mark Williams" ] wrote in message
. ..
"Thumper" writes:

I often see cars left by the side of the road causing this type of
obstruction. But this morning I thought to myself enough is enough,
I need to do something about this selfishness. So I resolved to
tackle the problem by making this strongly critical post to usenet.

you should post it to a car or driving group.

He has.

We have been telling Mr. Cheerful for years that his posting habits in
URC would make him go blind!

No, we have not.
Have you always been a liar?

Phil W Lee put finger to keyboard:

Scion considered Fri, 2 Aug 2013 08:15:33 +0000
(UTC) the perfect time to write:

Phil W Lee put finger to keyboard:

Scion considered Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:51:18 +0000
(UTC) the perfect time to write:

Phil W Lee put finger to keyboard:

Scion considered Wed, 31 Jul 2013 13:10:06
+0000 (UTC) the perfect time to write:

Paul Cummins put finger to keyboard:

In article ,
(Mentalguy2k8) wrote:

Using the road in the manner described? Obstruction.

Not in the slightest.

Why not?

Because the cyclist is there by right, where the motorists are
there by permission.

The cyclist and the motorists are both legally allowed to use the
road.

But the motorist can be chucked off if he misbehaves, whereas the
cyclist can't.

We'll assume that most of the obstructed drivers were there legally,
shall we?

And likewise the cyclist, of course (unless you are being a raving
hypocrite).

Of course. Where did I say otherwise?


Although statistically, it's highly probable that if the number of
(temporarily forced to drive within the speed limit) drivers reached
double figures, at least one wasn't there legally.

Sadly true. A much higher probability in some parts of the country.


The motorist can only use it by permission, where the cyclist
doesn't need permission from anyone.

Cyclists can be prevented from using roads as well, even though
there's no specific permission/test/licence requirement.

What mechanism do you believe exists for banning someone from
cycling?*

You know the mechanism - you've written about it at the end of your
post. Sheesh.

Then you also know that it was only on a very small number of specified
roads, and in the context of an ASBO that could supposedly have
restrained him from using those roads at all.
And we have no evidence at all that any attempt was ever made to enforce
it.

Does the cyclist need a permit (aka licence) to operate a bicycle on
the public highway, which can be revoked?
Maybe some offence in law of "cycling whilst disqualified"?

No, but as you acknowledge at the end of your post, the mechanism is
there to ban a person from cycling.

No it isn't.
He was entirely free to cycle on 99.99% of public highways in the UK.

In that specific case. An ASBO could be issued to cover a much wider area,
even countrywide.


Can you maybe give figures for the number of illegal cyclists on our
highways?

No, no more than you can give figures for the number of cyclists who
ride illegally.



Neither has "more right" to be there than the other,

See above.

Ditto.

There is no more or less when there simply is, and is not.

Glad you agree with me on that, at least.

So you accept that the right-of-way exists for the cyclist, but not for
the motorist.

There is a considerable difference between being legally allowed and
having the right.
I could legally allow you into my house, but that in no way gives
you a legally enforceable right to be there,

Your house is not a public place - by default, *anyone* needs your
permission to be there.

Driving on a public highway is not a public right - by default
*anyone* needs government permission to drive there.

Once licenced (taxed/insured/roadworthy vehicle etc.) then that
permission is there, and there's no point pretending it isn't, or it is
somehow a lesser, second-rate right to use the road.

It is not a RIGHT.
It can be withdrawn at any time, and for any reason the government or
it's agents see fit to give. Even if you've never done anything wrong
at all behind the wheel.

Indeed. But *unless and until* such time as it is withdrawn, my point
stands.


particularly if you start making threats (either by language or
behaviour) against those who do have the legal right to be there.
Your permission would be withdrawn rather quickly.

The same is true of your use of a road in a motor vehicle, although
it does seem to take an unreasonable length of time to get
permission revoked even for blatantly dangerous drivers.
and both must
use the
road in accordance with the law.

Quite so, but only one of them uses the road by right.

Which can be withdrawn - see above.

Untrue, see above.

You're simply wrong on this point.

Show me a case where someone has ever been banned from cycling (not just
restricted from cycling on a few roads).
Unless you can, it is you that is wrong.

Here you go:
http://www.treehugger.com/bikes/stud...k-banned-from-
cycling-for-15-years.html
(Germany)

Or from the UK:
http://www.lynnnews.co.uk/news/crime...ad-men-banned-
from-cycling-1-5179603