Are the Dutch are getting lazy?

On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:54:00 +0100, Sepp Ruf
wrote:

jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, February 29, 2020, wrote:
On Saturday, February 29, 2020 at 3:08:33 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 5:09:07 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 15:07:36 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 28 February 2020, wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
From a popular Dutch news site:

Summary: 420000 E bikes sold last year Total sales volume
2019: 1.252 billion euro (2.6% up) of which 70% from E
bikes Market share E bikes 41.7 procent. Average amount
spent on a E bike 2067 euro

For long you were some kind of piteous riding an assisted
bike being disabled or something now it is the otherway
round. You are a loser buying a 'normal' bike. Everybody
older than 45 years I encounter during my rides riding a
normal bike gets a thumbs up from me. I have to do that not
very often. We now have Ebike peletons...

I'm not an eBike person myself. But I can see the appeal of
them. Especially in a society like the Netherlands where the
bicycle is considered a normal mode of transportation.
Unlike in the USA, where the bicycle is only a recreational
object. In the Netherlands you use the bike to go to work,
school, store, etc. So using an eBike to make these required
transportation tasks easier makes a lot of sense. But in the
USA the bicycle is for recreation. Almost no one uses it for
basic transportation. So getting an eBike to make your
recreational riding easier makes no sense. It makes as much
sense as people driving to the gym in the morning to get
their workout. Instead of jogging or cycling to the gym in
the morning. But people do stupid things all the time.

The thing is that leisure rides also increased a lot. So there
were a lot of people that would like to ride for fun but not
want to get (too) tired or sweaty. An E bike solved that.

That's the problem. With ebikes as today's antiperspirant of choice for the
sports-simulating middle classes, the attitude toward sweat caused by real
bicycling, even if odorless, seems to become more Puritan.

I see more and more E-bikes being used around here when the
weather is warm. I wonder if the popularity of E-bikes will lead
to many if any of the unpaved trails and rail-trails getting
paved over? Time will tell.

Googling "how to soup-up your e-bike" gets almost 60,000,000 hits.
I think that you may soon be seeing powerful e-bikes all over the
place :-)

They even make foldable e-bikes for Frank to take on his travels.
and strong too, a load capacity 125 kg (275 lbs). At $1,275 they
are very competitive in price with push-bikes too :-)

Prepare for sticker-shock, John B. https://tinyurl.com/tptmp84

My son talks non-stop about eBikes. They're now Specialized's
bread-and-butter product. He wants me to get one -- probably so he
doesn't have to wait for me when we're riding in Utah. He also wants
one for commuting.

The problem is that even at employee/family prices, the top end
eBikes are really expensive. But if the discount or scratch and dent
stars align, my next bike may be a Specialized eBike.

A S-work E bake, that is funny...

They're apparently shipping a lot of them. I got an advertising e-mail
from a local shop yesterday announcing a sale on Orbea Gains.
https://www.orbea..com/us-en/ebikes/road/gain-all-road Another stealth
eBike. When some guy drops me like a rock, I now look at the BB and/or
hub to determine whether I should be laughing or crying. I will vanquish
them all when I get my super-stealth eBike with the zillion watt motor!

What's Oregon's assist speed, or wattage, limit to keep your vanquEsh bike
from being classified as a motorcycle?

You could as well relax, get a Rohloff Speedhub and a Shimano generator hub
to mislead ignorant ebikers into asking what motors these are. Then inform
them that only strenuous exercise could make them nearly as fast and healthy
as you are, and enjoy watching their jaws drop. In case they still aren't
convinced to also drop their e-toy on the spot, tell them that the ebikes'
share of deadly bicycle accidents in Europe is close to 1/3, and rising
(because the ebikers are mostly old or inexperienced).


As posted above, "Market Share - 41.7%" Your statement "accidents
close to 30%"... sounds reasonable.
To put another way, "push-bikes - 58.3 percent of the market", "70% of
the accidents" :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 1 Mar 2020 00:28:37 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 12:03:21 +0700, John B. wrote:


I wonder. How do you go about replacing an internal battery on one of
those Specialized E-bikes?

Cheers

From watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy4M9hlf2YQ it appears
that the battery just clips in place. And I think that like a laptop
battery it is generally considered as non repairable although it may
well be for someone with the necessary tools and experience.

depending on yor definition of "laptop", they are generall easily
replaced as there are a number of suppliers of replacement laptop
batteries assemblies.

You missed the part where I say "generally considered as non
repairable"?

And yes, splitting the battery case is a rather simple feat but, at
least in the case of my Lenovo ThinkPad, the individual battery cells
are bonded into the plastic case with something that is stronger than
the metal case of the cells themselves.

it is the cracking the "battery" cases to gt acess to the internal cells
to test and replace them that is the trick part.


--
cheers,

John B.

John B. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:54:00 +0100, Sepp Ruf wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, February 29, 2020, wrote:
On Saturday, February 29, 2020 at 3:08:33 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
wrote:
From a popular Dutch news site:

Summary: 420000 E bikes sold last year Total sales volume
2019: 1.252 billion euro (2.6% up) of which 70% from E
bikes Market share E bikes 41.7 procent. Average amount
spent on a E bike 2067 euro

My son talks non-stop about eBikes. They're now Specialized's
bread-and-butter product. He wants me to get one -- probably so he
doesn't have to wait for me when we're riding in Utah. He also wants
one for commuting.

The problem is that even at employee/family prices, the top end
eBikes are really expensive. But if the discount or scratch and dent
stars align, my next bike may be a Specialized eBike.

A S-work E bake, that is funny...

They're apparently shipping a lot of them. I got an advertising e-mail
from a local shop yesterday announcing a sale on Orbea Gains.
https://www.orbea..com/us-en/ebikes/road/gain-all-road Another stealth
eBike. When some guy drops me like a rock, I now look at the BB and/or
hub to determine whether I should be laughing or crying. I will vanquish
them all when I get my super-stealth eBike with the zillion watt motor!

What's Oregon's assist speed, or wattage, limit to keep your vanquEsh bike
from being classified as a motorcycle?

You could as well relax, get a Rohloff Speedhub and a Shimano generator hub
to mislead ignorant ebikers into asking what motors these are. Then inform
them that only strenuous exercise could make them nearly as fast and healthy
as you are, and enjoy watching their jaws drop. In case they still aren't
convinced to also drop their e-toy on the spot, tell them that the ebikes'
share of deadly bicycle accidents in Europe is close to 1/3, and rising
(because the ebikers are mostly old or inexperienced).


As posted above, "Market Share - 41.7%" Your statement "accidents
close to 30%"... sounds reasonable.
To put another way, "push-bikes - 58.3 percent of the market", "70% of
the accidents" :-)

In Europe overall, ebikes' market share (percentage of bikes sold in Y2019)
is probably still higher than their risk exposure (time ridden as part of
the total active bike fleet). But as I only looked up three countries and
most of the 2019 traffic fatality statistics don't seem to be published yet,
the 1/3 ratio is only good enough for quick rhetoric on the road, not for
serious work.

--
https://www.boredpanda.com/creative-ways-people-protect-corona-virus/

On Sun, 1 Mar 2020 09:25:00 +0100, Sepp Ruf
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:54:00 +0100, Sepp Ruf wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, February 29, 2020, wrote:
On Saturday, February 29, 2020 at 3:08:33 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
wrote:
From a popular Dutch news site:

Summary: 420000 E bikes sold last year Total sales volume
2019: 1.252 billion euro (2.6% up) of which 70% from E
bikes Market share E bikes 41.7 procent. Average amount
spent on a E bike 2067 euro

My son talks non-stop about eBikes. They're now Specialized's
bread-and-butter product. He wants me to get one -- probably so he
doesn't have to wait for me when we're riding in Utah. He also wants
one for commuting.

The problem is that even at employee/family prices, the top end
eBikes are really expensive. But if the discount or scratch and dent
stars align, my next bike may be a Specialized eBike.

A S-work E bake, that is funny...

They're apparently shipping a lot of them. I got an advertising e-mail
from a local shop yesterday announcing a sale on Orbea Gains.
https://www.orbea..com/us-en/ebikes/road/gain-all-road Another stealth
eBike. When some guy drops me like a rock, I now look at the BB and/or
hub to determine whether I should be laughing or crying. I will vanquish
them all when I get my super-stealth eBike with the zillion watt motor!

What's Oregon's assist speed, or wattage, limit to keep your vanquEsh bike
from being classified as a motorcycle?

You could as well relax, get a Rohloff Speedhub and a Shimano generator hub
to mislead ignorant ebikers into asking what motors these are. Then inform
them that only strenuous exercise could make them nearly as fast and healthy
as you are, and enjoy watching their jaws drop. In case they still aren't
convinced to also drop their e-toy on the spot, tell them that the ebikes'
share of deadly bicycle accidents in Europe is close to 1/3, and rising
(because the ebikers are mostly old or inexperienced).


As posted above, "Market Share - 41.7%" Your statement "accidents
close to 30%"... sounds reasonable.
To put another way, "push-bikes - 58.3 percent of the market", "70% of
the accidents" :-)

In Europe overall, ebikes' market share (percentage of bikes sold in Y2019)
is probably still higher than their risk exposure (time ridden as part of
the total active bike fleet). But as I only looked up three countries and
most of the 2019 traffic fatality statistics don't seem to be published yet,
the 1/3 ratio is only good enough for quick rhetoric on the road, not for
serious work.

Singapore, which is a very small country, apparently has such a large
number, on a per capita basis, of e-vehicle - bikes, scooters and what
appear to be e-tricycles - that they now require all types to meet
government standards, limit the motor size and speed - 250 watts and
25 km/h - and require the vehicle and rider to be licensed.

Granted, Singapore tends toward strict laws rigidly enforced but
I believe that as e-vehicle accidents increase, as they are bound to
do as the numbers of e-vehicles on the roads increase, that licensing
will probably be instituted in many other countries.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 2/29/2020 1:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/29/2020 12:54 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
In case they still aren't
convinced to also drop their e-toy on the spot, tell them
that the ebikes'
share of deadly bicycle accidents in Europe is close to
1/3, and rising
(because the ebikers are mostly old or inexperienced).

I agree with that. Others have pointed out that up to this
time, if a person was fast on a bike it was usually because
he had put thousands of hours into riding. He probably
learned to stop making most mistakes when he was still slow
and the mistakes had lower consequences. Not so today.

But I wonder if another factor relates to design of
facilities. A segregated facility might be OK at 10 kph but
dangerous at 20 kph, let alone 30 kph.

Also, I imagine speeds are a lot less consistent these days.
People on "acoustic" bikes are still tootling along at, oh,
15 kph, mixing with E-bikers that are probably much faster,
passing unexpectedly, messing with distance judgment, etc.



Slippery slope. 'Assist', then 'E-Moped' then right on to
'Synthetic Reality' goggles, at which point one leads the
pack while plopped on a sofa.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 01 Mar 2020 10:12:12 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 2/29/2020 1:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/29/2020 12:54 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
In case they still aren't
convinced to also drop their e-toy on the spot, tell them
that the ebikes'
share of deadly bicycle accidents in Europe is close to
1/3, and rising
(because the ebikers are mostly old or inexperienced).

I agree with that. Others have pointed out that up to this
time, if a person was fast on a bike it was usually because
he had put thousands of hours into riding. He probably
learned to stop making most mistakes when he was still slow
and the mistakes had lower consequences. Not so today.

But I wonder if another factor relates to design of
facilities. A segregated facility might be OK at 10 kph but
dangerous at 20 kph, let alone 30 kph.

Also, I imagine speeds are a lot less consistent these days.
People on "acoustic" bikes are still tootling along at, oh,
15 kph, mixing with E-bikers that are probably much faster,
passing unexpectedly, messing with distance judgment, etc.



Slippery slope. 'Assist', then 'E-Moped' then right on to
'Synthetic Reality' goggles, at which point one leads the
pack while plopped on a sofa.

And a real reduction in "bicycle accidents" :-)
--
cheers,

John B.