The dream is back

The kids at the high school I taught at all thought my BikeE AT was
"cool" but when they heard the price and realized it was about 1/3 to
the price of the heaps on wheels they were driving they decided it was
too expensive for them. We will not get the young kids riding bents
until someone comes out with a bent for kids in the same price range
as the Schwinns you see at Meijers or Wal-Mart. Remember it isn't the
kids that buy most of the bike that kids ride, it is the parents. The
parents grew up riding DFs and feel that if a DF was good enough for
me a DF is good enough for my kid.

If we want to get the youth into bents we need to find a company that
will make a inexpensive bent that can be mass-marketed in the Meijers
and Wal-Marts of the nation.

Then those "serious" riders in the 20-30 year range are either into
the mountain bike extreme cycling thing or are into speed. Those into
speed believe that the fastest bikes on the roads are the light weight
racing bikes that compete in the great races like the Tour-de-France.
What they don't know is that the Cycling Federations that certify
these races outlawed the first bents in the 1930s for having "an
unfair advantage!" If the bent community wants to attract this group
into the faternity we need to offer parallel bents only races to show
which type bicycles are actually the fastest. It would be interesting
to run a bents only race on the same route one day after the
Tour-de-France, I suspect that the speeds bents would reach would blow
away the speeds of the current Tour-de-France racers reach. If the big
Bent manufacturers around the world would offer substancial prizes for
such a tour the conventual DF bikes would soon be on the way out as
the dangerous machines that they are. DFs should be outlawed simply
for being "unsafe at any speed!" (ah la Nader).

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message ...

The posting habits of some of the regulars are into nothing but stroking one
another. The end for them is to leave the group with a good feeling about
themselves and the group. They are more like women than men that way. Those
type of posters have a difficult time with me because I do not care about
creating good feelings.

After following many of your posts, including the insulting posts you
made on women I amd beginning to understand why some message boards
have moderators or allow members to ban other members for periods of
time when they become intellectual bullies. Don't get me wrong, as a
liberal I believe in free speech and would never tell you that you
should shut up, but you habit of hijacking threads is irritating.

I am here to say what is on my mind and I let the chips fall where they may.

Not really, you seem to just let the frustrations caused by living in
rural Minnisota get to you and you take your frustrations out on the
members of this form. Although, you apparently are a senior citizen,
you act worse than the 8th graders I taught for 37 years! GROW UP! GET
A LIFE!

Since the world is a rotten place, why shouldn't ARBR also be a rotten
place.

Why go out of your way to make ARBR a rotten place? Some Junior High
bullies just never grow up!

BROL is for fantasy;

No it seems often to be for specific discussion of problems with
various bikes and with issues that involve the recumbent community.
You often seem to want to make the ARBR into you personal soapbox,
rather than a communtiy where common intersts can be rationally
discussed.

ARBR is for reality. I want people to be real - not nice.

You certainly do not reflect reality, you seem to just want to have
everyone agree with you opinions and do not want any opinions that do
not agree with you to be posted.

By the way, people who use personal attacks, as you hibitually do, on
people who disagree with them and resort to some of the language I
have seen you post here are clearly demonstrating their own
intellectual weaknesses.

Ken_in_Michgan wrote:

...It would be interesting
to run a bents only race on the same route one day after the
Tour-de-France, I suspect that the speeds bents would reach would blow
away the speeds of the current Tour-de-France racers reach....

And where will the world class recumbent riders come from? Riders who
can put out more than 400 W/hour would be required.

As to whether or not properly designed recumbents would be competitive
in the mountain stages is a question that can not currently be answered
due to lack of data (and anyone who claims otherwise is presenting
supposition as fact).

If the big
Bent manufacturers around the world would offer substancial prizes for
such a tour the conventual DF bikes would soon be on the way out as
the dangerous machines that they are....

What big recumbent manufactures? The combined cash reserves of all the
recumbent manufacturers MIGHT be able to pay for one stage equivalent to
the TdF.

--
Tom Sherman

If we want to get the youth into bents we need to find a company that
will make a inexpensive bent that can be mass-marketed in the Meijers
and Wal-Marts of the nation.

Pardon me, but why would we *want* to get 'youth' into 'bents anyway?

Just curious.


James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/

Pardon me, but why would we *want* to get 'youth' into 'bents anyway?

Just curious.


James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/
To even ask that guestion is blasphmey.Not only should the youth want to
ride recumbents but we should pass laws that reguires them to do so.After
all its for their own good.Well I really don't feel that way,I think we
should let them eat cake.


--
nget

"Ken_in_Michgan" wrote in message
om...
"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

The posting habits of some of the regulars are into nothing but stroking
one
another. The end for them is to leave the group with a good feeling about
themselves and the group. They are more like women than men that way.
Those
type of posters have a difficult time with me because I do not care about
creating good feelings.

After following many of your posts, including the insulting posts you
made on women I amd beginning to understand why some message boards
have moderators or allow members to ban other members for periods of
time when they become intellectual bullies. Don't get me wrong, as a
liberal I believe in free speech and would never tell you that you
should shut up, but you habit of hijacking threads is irritating.

Insult is in the eye of the beholder. I have said many good things about
women as well as some things that are not so good about women. You do not
know how to read things whole. You, like so many others here, only read in
part. Is comparing all women to the Virgin Mary in their essential goodness
an insult? Is comparing all men in their essential badness to Atilla the Hun
an insult? Maybe if you knew how to read you would realize that someone is
saying something that you do not hear everyday on the street.

There is no such thing as an intellectual bully. We all have more or less an
equal command of the language and can oppose one point of view with another
point of view. Try it sometime yourself on the substance of what is being
said. You might surprise yourself.

ARBR is the most anti-intellectual group imaginable. When you do not want to
meet an argument, you cry foul. What a bunch of cry babies!

The only threads I ever hijack are those that deserve to be hijacked because
nothing is being said but a lot of inanities. Please note that I never
hijack a thread otherwise unless the topic (usually off-topic) is right up
my alley.

I am here to say what is on my mind and I let the chips fall where they
may.

Not really, you seem to just let the frustrations caused by living in
rural Minnisota get to you and you take your frustrations out on the
members of this form. Although, you apparently are a senior citizen,
you act worse than the 8th graders I taught for 37 years! GROW UP! GET
A LIFE!

The only frustration I have to living here in rural Minnesota are the g.d.
winters which I think are about on the level of the g.d. winters in Alaska.
Why don't you just admit that you do not like my opinions and/or you do not
like my style and forget that nonsense about not growing up. It has been my
experience that the only adults in this world who never grow up are the
teachers of K through 12. I think it must come from constantly hanging
around kids too much and never having enough contact with adults in the real
world.

Since the world is a rotten place, why shouldn't ARBR also be a rotten
place.

Why go out of your way to make ARBR a rotten place? Some Junior High
bullies just never grow up!

BROL is for fantasy;

No it seems often to be for specific discussion of problems with
various bikes and with issues that involve the recumbent community.
You often seem to want to make the ARBR into you personal soapbox,
rather than a communtiy where common intersts can be rationally
discussed.

I am here to provide some relief from the mundane subject of recumbents and
"issues that involve the recumbent community" (whatever that is). You should
read me after you have read all those other incredibly boring posts about
recumbents. That way, you do not leave the group with nothing to show for
it.

ARBR is for reality. I want people to be real - not nice.

You certainly do not reflect reality, you seem to just want to have
everyone agree with you opinions and do not want any opinions that do
not agree with you to be posted.

You need to attend more closely to things that are going on in the world. Do
you not have a TV and/or do you not read newspapers. I submit the world is
a really rotten place because of the kind of humans we are. Yes, that
includes you too. I do not see why ARBR should be a haven from the
prevailing realities. Too much nice sickens me!

Opposing opinions are always welcomed by me. Hells Bells! I live to argue.
Have I not proven that over and over?

By the way, people who use personal attacks, as you hibitually do, on
people who disagree with them and resort to some of the language I
have seen you post here are clearly demonstrating their own
intellectual weaknesses.

My language is carefully calibrated to what I am reading. If I am reading
foul mouth idiots, then I throw it back at them with interest. One thing I
have learned is that ARBR is not the Oxford Debating Society. Some of the
louts here on ARBR have to hit over the head with a 2 by 4 just to get their
attention.

By the way, with one or two exceptions, I have never yet seen any examples
of intellect on this group.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:47:03 -0500, "Edward Dolan"
wrote in message :

kids of a certain age think recumbents are cool - or at least that
is what they think should be the appropriate comment whenever they see
one.
But they do not ride them nor do they truly want them.

They don't have $2000 to spend on a bike. The new KMX Kart is $500,
much less if you can find a second-hand one, and I am seeing lots of
kids at cycle rallies who own them. Not many "in the wild" but
they've only been out a couple of years. And they are great for doing
tricks, so check that box.

By the time they get old enough
for a proper road bike, they are into cars and are lost to cycling
forever -
until they get old like us and start worrying about their health. So then
they take up recumbent cycling with some seriousness prior to their
deaths.

Maybe in the US, but not here. Cycling is a mainstream form of
transport for teens, and although levels are still well down on where
they were in the 1930s there is a strong and growing culture of
tranportational and enthusiast cycling. There are large road racing,
touring and track cycling clubs in my town, and many of the riders are
young. There is even a kids' track cycling club at the local
velodrome. And this is just an ordinary provincial town.

Some recent reports put cycling as more popular than football in the
UK, in terms of numbers of participants.

I see plenty of kids with really expensive toys that their parents have
gotten for them. It the kids wanted recumbents badly enough, they would have
them regardless of cost.

I notice that many kids here in the US get brand new expensive cars from
their parents upon graduation from high school. This is probably in lieu of
a college education which we all know is the most expensive thing in the
world. The thinking is why waste money on a college education for this kid
of mine since all he wants to do anyway is run around in fancy cars, get
drunk and chase girls. Who wants to end up in the poor house just to finance
your child's education when he doesn't even want it. This is good short term
thinking, but maybe not so good for the long term.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Ken_in_Michgan" wrote in message
om...
[...]
If we want to get the youth into bents we need to find a company that
will make a inexpensive bent that can be mass-marketed in the Meijers
and Wal-Marts of the nation.

I have been saying exactly this same thing for the past 25 years. There is
no reason on this earth why a recumbent can't be just as cheap as any
upright. But the reason they aren't is because the kids don't want them.
There is no mass market for them like there is for uprights. This may be a
chicken or egg type of conundrum as you point out, but I think the kids will
really have to want them before they can ever be made inexpensive like
uprights.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
[...]
As to whether or not properly designed recumbents would be competitive in
the mountain stages is a question that can not currently be answered due
to lack of data (and anyone who claims otherwise is presenting supposition
as fact).

Yes, but our own experiences on our recumbents and just plain common sense
tell us that recumbents are poor hill climbers and could never compete with
an upright in the mountains.

Those who claim to be just as fast climbing hills on their recumbents as
they were on their uprights are living in a fantasy world. They amuse me
greatly and I always have a good laugh at their expense.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"James S. Prine" wrote in message
...
If we want to get the youth into bents we need to find a company that
will make a inexpensive bent that can be mass-marketed in the Meijers
and Wal-Marts of the nation.

Pardon me, but why would we *want* to get 'youth' into 'bents anyway?

Just curious.

I can think of one reason right off the bat. If there were a mass market for
kid's recumbents, then recumbents for us adults would reflect this and they
would not be nearly so expensive as they are presently. How would you like
to pay a few hundred dollars for a good recumbent rather than a few
thousand?

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota