Habanero shows up curved stays

On 03/04/17 14:30, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 18:53:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
Took the bike out today first ride 47 miles 2 hours 45 minutes never
unclipped felt rock solid. No noise in the frame, quietest bike I ever
ride. In the only real small down hill I got up to 34 mph and would
fell confident it descends well. Nothing in these parts that allow
going over 45 in a descent.

The only real one I do at the ski resort in Cadillac Michigan I get
chicken at about 42 mph and start feather brakes. Maybe on this Habby
I could let it go all out.

Great bike for sure weights about 18.4 with pedals in 58.How do those
pros have the guts to tuck and ride above 50?

Ah, go to YouTube and watch Sean Kelly chase Moreno Argentin downthe
Poggio in Milan-San Remo in 1992. There is some descending. Probably
nowhere near 50 mph at ny point due to the twistiness of the road.
Skill and guts.

Back in 2002 I did a tour in the Alps, the TV commentators overstate the
speeds down those roads- most of them are far too narrow and twisty to
hit 60 mph as claimed. Adn the consequences for missing a turn are
sometimes worth taking into consideration! There are a few stretches,
though, that are straight down the fall line without interruption and
the speed you can get up to quite quickly catches one's attention. I am
thinking of the sunny side of Col d'Izoard from about Brunissard to
(IIRC) Le Coin (on our map, anyway, which means "the corner" but I don't
think it was actually the name of anything; I can't recall the name of
the little town there ). Not a long stretch but steep and straight.
Fun!


I touched on 90km/h last week, rolling down a fairly straight hill in a
tuck. That is about 56mph. The only thing that made me nervous was the
wallaby standing by the road side. Had it bounced across the road at me
I think I would have shat myself at that speed ;-)

--
JS

On 2017-04-02 17:06, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 02 Apr 2017 07:54:32 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-04-01 20:49, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 07:59:34 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-03-31 17:45, John B. wrote:


[...]

I had a look at your Bikes Direct site and nowhere could I find a
reference to the specific Titanium alloy that their bikes are made
from. I would comment that after striping off the somewhat hysterical
sales pitch the bikes look surprisingly like those offered on Alibaba
at a noticeably cheaper price.


His Ti hardtail definitely is high class stuff. I have ridden it myself.
It almost feels like it ain't there yet it is very tough. I have also
see my buddy crash it in front of me where I thought "Now this is going
to bend it". It didn't.

What I think is that most of those frames end up coming from the same
huge factory somewhere in Taiwan or China and are largely assembled by
robots. Then some of them go to upscale companies where a huge profit
margin is tacked on, some to mass producers and some to places like
BikesDirect.

He's also got two fat bikes from them though those are aluminum frame.
We have ridden them together and they are also very sturdy. When
comparing the welds they looks identical on both bikes. I don't think
that is possible if done by hand.

But your cast iron (and very cheap) Thai made tires are far heavier
than other tires and you brag about them. Now you are telling us that
"weight is important"?


To most others, not to me. The reason why I'd likely opt for a Ti-frame
if my current road bike ever fails beyond repair is that you can hardly
get steel frames anymore except at collector's prices.

Where do you live? On the Moon? There are more than 30 custom bike
builders in the S.F. Bay area of California alone.


Right. And for motorized transportation I could order a customized
Maserati. Because money grows on trees.


... Or you could buy a
steel frame from any of the places importing them from china and build
your own and even TREK is still selling the 520 model that is steel,

Or, you can but the Ti frame and bask in the sunlight of owning a real
treasure.

By the way, I just had a look at a site which says "The seven best
Titanium Bikes" and their average price is in the $2,500 (frame set
only) range.


At BikesDirect it is around $1700, _with_ everything and not just a bare
frame and fork.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-04-02 11:20, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/2/2017 10:54 AM, Joerg wrote:
The reason why I'd likely opt for a Ti-frame
if my current road bike ever fails beyond repair is that you can hardly
get steel frames anymore except at collector's prices.

There are thousands of them sold every day. Most are not brand new, but
that makes very little difference. In America, almost all used bikes
are very low mileage.

New ones are available too. Just last year, a good friend of mine
bought a new one that Andrew recommended. It cost roughly $1000. She
loves it.


That's a good price. However, when I was in the market for a decent MTB
and browsed around I found that the offerings with Ti-frame were zero,
nothing, nada. Not one, no MTB, no road bike and no cyclocross. Back
then (3 years ago) there also was hardly any MTB in 29" except for cheap
department store bikes but that changed, a little.

Anyhow, if in need I know where to get one. Yesterday I went on a ride
with the owner of that Ti-MTB and during a snack break I took a good
look at the welds and stuff. Top notch.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 4/2/2017 11:33 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 02 Apr 2017 16:37:26 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

You got ripped off. My new Varsity was $66.95
http://schwinncruisers.com/catalogs/1965.html

Using the CPI as the basis for an inflation calculator:
https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
that $67 bicycle would cost $518 today. Ouch.

That explains why I could never afford one as a kid.

Related: In pre-internet days, I wrote a program to convert dollar
costs between different years, using CPI (and similar) data that I dug
out of the library. One friend of mine was very interested in it. He
wanted to see how the original price of his 1880-something Columbia
"ordinary" (high wheeler bike) compared to its present day value - in
other words, to what he'd paid for it when he bought it.

Turns out in constant dollars, the ordinary had not appreciated in value
at all. Despite its rarity, it wasn't really worth any more.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, April 3, 2017 at 7:52:49 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-04-02 17:06, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 02 Apr 2017 07:54:32 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-04-01 20:49, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 07:59:34 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-03-31 17:45, John B. wrote:


[...]

I had a look at your Bikes Direct site and nowhere could I find a
reference to the specific Titanium alloy that their bikes are made
from. I would comment that after striping off the somewhat hysterical
sales pitch the bikes look surprisingly like those offered on Alibaba
at a noticeably cheaper price.


His Ti hardtail definitely is high class stuff. I have ridden it myself.
It almost feels like it ain't there yet it is very tough. I have also
see my buddy crash it in front of me where I thought "Now this is going
to bend it". It didn't.

What I think is that most of those frames end up coming from the same
huge factory somewhere in Taiwan or China and are largely assembled by
robots. Then some of them go to upscale companies where a huge profit
margin is tacked on, some to mass producers and some to places like
BikesDirect.

He's also got two fat bikes from them though those are aluminum frame.
We have ridden them together and they are also very sturdy. When
comparing the welds they looks identical on both bikes. I don't think
that is possible if done by hand.

But your cast iron (and very cheap) Thai made tires are far heavier
than other tires and you brag about them. Now you are telling us that
"weight is important"?


To most others, not to me. The reason why I'd likely opt for a Ti-frame
if my current road bike ever fails beyond repair is that you can hardly
get steel frames anymore except at collector's prices.

Where do you live? On the Moon? There are more than 30 custom bike
builders in the S.F. Bay area of California alone.


Right. And for motorized transportation I could order a customized
Maserati. Because money grows on trees.


... Or you could buy a
steel frame from any of the places importing them from china and build
your own and even TREK is still selling the 520 model that is steel,

Or, you can but the Ti frame and bask in the sunlight of owning a real
treasure.

By the way, I just had a look at a site which says "The seven best
Titanium Bikes" and their average price is in the $2,500 (frame set
only) range.


At BikesDirect it is around $1700, _with_ everything and not just a bare
frame and fork.

Buy it today. Right now -- before Trump cracks-down on the Chinese. But make sure it fits racks capable of carrying 50lbs, fits fat tires, massive headlight batteries, etc. We don't want to hear you griping about how the bike is lacking. You could go with this one, although I prefer a lower BB. http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...comp_ti_xv.htm. Don't get the Phantom-whatever race bike. You'll just be hose-clamping **** all over that thing.

Or, you could go with one of the many steel or aluminum gravel/comfort bikes that would be plenty peppy on the road and that would accommodate racks and fenders. Take the long wagon ride into civilization and go shopping.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 4/3/2017 4:26 AM, James wrote:
On 03/04/17 14:30, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 18:53:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
Took the bike out today first ride 47 miles 2 hours 45 minutes never
unclipped felt rock solid. No noise in the frame, quietest bike I ever
ride. In the only real small down hill I got up to 34 mph and would
fell confident it descends well. Nothing in these parts that allow
going over 45 in a descent.

The only real one I do at the ski resort in Cadillac Michigan I get
chicken at about 42 mph and start feather brakes. Maybe on this Habby
I could let it go all out.

Great bike for sure weights about 18.4 with pedals in 58.How do those
pros have the guts to tuck and ride above 50?

Ah, go to YouTube and watch Sean Kelly chase Moreno Argentin downthe
Poggio in Milan-San Remo in 1992. There is some descending. Probably
nowhere near 50 mph at ny point due to the twistiness of the road.
Skill and guts.

Back in 2002 I did a tour in the Alps, the TV commentators overstate the
speeds down those roads- most of them are far too narrow and twisty to
hit 60 mph as claimed. Adn the consequences for missing a turn are
sometimes worth taking into consideration! There are a few stretches,
though, that are straight down the fall line without interruption and
the speed you can get up to quite quickly catches one's attention. I am
thinking of the sunny side of Col d'Izoard from about Brunissard to
(IIRC) Le Coin (on our map, anyway, which means "the corner" but I don't
think it was actually the name of anything; I can't recall the name of
the little town there ). Not a long stretch but steep and straight.
Fun!


I touched on 90km/h last week, rolling down a fairly straight hill in a
tuck. That is about 56mph. The only thing that made me nervous was the
wallaby standing by the road side. Had it bounced across the road at me
I think I would have shat myself at that speed ;-)

I had that experience with a couple fawns in a forested park, although
it was only at 30 to 35 mph.

But regarding the "steep and straight," I'm now at the age where I
prefer gentler long downhills. I hit 54 mph once, but 25 to 30 mph is a
lot more pleasant for me.

My all time favorite was heading west after crossing the Lolo Pass into
Idaho. After a few miles of 45mph adrenaline rush, it settled down
into over 100 miles of continuous gentle downhill, with a beautiful
rocky river by our side.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, April 3, 2017 at 9:28:58 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/3/2017 4:26 AM, James wrote:
On 03/04/17 14:30, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 18:53:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
Took the bike out today first ride 47 miles 2 hours 45 minutes never
unclipped felt rock solid. No noise in the frame, quietest bike I ever
ride. In the only real small down hill I got up to 34 mph and would
fell confident it descends well. Nothing in these parts that allow
going over 45 in a descent.

The only real one I do at the ski resort in Cadillac Michigan I get
chicken at about 42 mph and start feather brakes. Maybe on this Habby
I could let it go all out.

Great bike for sure weights about 18.4 with pedals in 58.How do those
pros have the guts to tuck and ride above 50?

Ah, go to YouTube and watch Sean Kelly chase Moreno Argentin downthe
Poggio in Milan-San Remo in 1992. There is some descending. Probably
nowhere near 50 mph at ny point due to the twistiness of the road.
Skill and guts.

Back in 2002 I did a tour in the Alps, the TV commentators overstate the
speeds down those roads- most of them are far too narrow and twisty to
hit 60 mph as claimed. Adn the consequences for missing a turn are
sometimes worth taking into consideration! There are a few stretches,
though, that are straight down the fall line without interruption and
the speed you can get up to quite quickly catches one's attention. I am
thinking of the sunny side of Col d'Izoard from about Brunissard to
(IIRC) Le Coin (on our map, anyway, which means "the corner" but I don't
think it was actually the name of anything; I can't recall the name of
the little town there ). Not a long stretch but steep and straight.
Fun!


I touched on 90km/h last week, rolling down a fairly straight hill in a
tuck. That is about 56mph. The only thing that made me nervous was the
wallaby standing by the road side. Had it bounced across the road at me
I think I would have shat myself at that speed ;-)

I had that experience with a couple fawns in a forested park, although
it was only at 30 to 35 mph.

But regarding the "steep and straight," I'm now at the age where I
prefer gentler long downhills. I hit 54 mph once, but 25 to 30 mph is a
lot more pleasant for me.

My all time favorite was heading west after crossing the Lolo Pass into
Idaho. After a few miles of 45mph adrenaline rush, it settled down
into over 100 miles of continuous gentle downhill, with a beautiful
rocky river by our side.

I came up from the other side and just marked off the climb ten miles at a time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUl_gp1435g I like the little graphic at 1:57. It's not bad until you get near the top.

My fastest decent was on Carson Pass in the Sierra -- about 62mph on closed roads (Death Ride). I wouldn't try for terminal velocity on any road with traffic, wallabies, cows, pedestrians, etc. And in fact, I'm probably too sheepish in my old age to even hit terminal velocity. I was riding this weekend and came to the descent where I cart-wheeled over my son. I rode that corner (wet again) at about 5mph. Then I went to my PTSD support group (which, luckily, was just up the road).

-- Jay Beattie.

On 2017-04-03 09:27, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, April 3, 2017 at 7:52:49 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-04-02 17:06, John B. wrote:


[...]

... Or you could buy a steel frame from any of the places
importing them from china and build your own and even TREK is
still selling the 520 model that is steel,

Or, you can but the Ti frame and bask in the sunlight of owning a
real treasure.

By the way, I just had a look at a site which says "The seven
best Titanium Bikes" and their average price is in the $2,500
(frame set only) range.


At BikesDirect it is around $1700, _with_ everything and not just a
bare frame and fork.

Buy it today. Right now -- before Trump cracks-down on the Chinese.
But make sure it fits racks capable of carrying 50lbs, fits fat
tires, massive headlight batteries, etc. We don't want to hear you
griping about how the bike is lacking. You could go with this one,
although I prefer a lower BB.
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...comp_ti_xv.htm.


Please don't make me drool. That is my kind of dream bike (except I want
no more than 10-speed in back) but my wife would make me junk the trusty
old Gazelle if a new bike shows up in the already full garage.

A major advantage of this and most other cyclocross bikes are the disc
brakes.


Don't get the Phantom-whatever race bike. You'll just be
hose-clamping **** all over that thing.


I'd even have to make clamps for this one. Like most other "modern" road
bikes it has no mount for a rack so I'd have to fashion clamps. For me a
bike without a rack is as incomplete as a car without a trunk. It's not
practical enough.

Then the battery has to go somewhere, plus an electronics box and some
other stuff.


Or, you could go with one of the many steel or aluminum
gravel/comfort bikes that would be plenty peppy on the road and that
would accommodate racks and fenders. Take the long wagon ride into
civilization and go shopping.


Right now I've got a road bike with a tough steel frame. I just need to
find a sturdier rear wheel for it and probably a new square-taper BB
before that.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 4/3/2017 1:25 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-04-03 09:27, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, April 3, 2017 at 7:52:49 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-04-02 17:06, John B. wrote:


[...]

... Or you could buy a steel frame from any of the places
importing them from china and build your own and even TREK is
still selling the 520 model that is steel,

Or, you can but the Ti frame and bask in the sunlight of owning a
real treasure.

By the way, I just had a look at a site which says "The seven
best Titanium Bikes" and their average price is in the $2,500
(frame set only) range.


At BikesDirect it is around $1700, _with_ everything and not just a
bare frame and fork.

Buy it today. Right now -- before Trump cracks-down on the Chinese.
But make sure it fits racks capable of carrying 50lbs, fits fat
tires, massive headlight batteries, etc. We don't want to hear you
griping about how the bike is lacking. You could go with this one,
although I prefer a lower BB.
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...comp_ti_xv.htm.



Please don't make me drool. That is my kind of dream bike (except I want
no more than 10-speed in back) but my wife would make me junk the trusty
old Gazelle if a new bike shows up in the already full garage.

A major advantage of this and most other cyclocross bikes are the disc
brakes.

Speaking of discs: The current issue of Buycycling magazine has a flow
chart to help cyclists decide if they want discs. Here's a photo of
that page: https://goo.gl/photos/b3KVfZ3zyzwJHoyZ7

I noticed that most choices lead one way or another to "Rim brakes."

Which is not to say nobody should use discs, of course. But I was
actually a bit surprised that the magazine wasn't pushing discs. ISTM
they tend to push whatever is newest and most expensive.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 3 Apr 2017 12:21:36 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/2/2017 11:33 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 02 Apr 2017 16:37:26 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

You got ripped off. My new Varsity was $66.95
http://schwinncruisers.com/catalogs/1965.html

Using the CPI as the basis for an inflation calculator:
https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
that $67 bicycle would cost $518 today. Ouch.

That explains why I could never afford one as a kid.

In 1965, I believe I had just entered Jr College. I vaguely recall
working in my father's lingerie factory for $0.25/hr. That might
explain why it took me so long to buy anything substantial. (That's
when I was driving $50 junk cars).

Related: In pre-internet days, I wrote a program to convert dollar
costs between different years, using CPI (and similar) data that I dug
out of the library. One friend of mine was very interested in it. He
wanted to see how the original price of his 1880-something Columbia
"ordinary" (high wheeler bike) compared to its present day value - in
other words, to what he'd paid for it when he bought it.

Turns out in constant dollars, the ordinary had not appreciated in value
at all. Despite its rarity, it wasn't really worth any more.

That's rather surprising, but probably due more to the way the CPI was
connected to inflation. During the 19th century, economic
oscillations between boom and bust were the norm. There was little
government interest in stabilizing the economy. Actually, the
government was directly responsible for some of these swings. See the
graph:
http://www.in2013dollars.com/1800-dollars-in-2016
So, picking the right year to calculate the value of an ordinary or
Penny Farthing has a big effect on it's current value.

Here's one from 1886 which sold for $135.
http://amhistory.si.edu/onthemove/collection/object_285.html
Using the above calculator, I get a 2016 value of $3,298.54.
A veritable bargain today:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/frederick-hosts-high-wheel-bike-race/2012/08/19/c295e334-ea2b-11e1-a80b-9f898562d010_story.html
"An original can cost $29,000, a well-made replica $4,000
to $5,000. Cheaper, newer examples can be had for less
than $1,000."

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558