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#101
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Should you wear a bicycle foam hat while riding a recumbent?
On Sat, 7 May 2011 07:15:02 -0700 (PDT), in rec.bicycles.tech Dan O
wrote: Classic Krygowski. So would a wearing helmet be any benefit in any of those activities? No? Would wearing a helmet be worth the cost? Is wearing a helmet worth the cost when bicycling? Is a used bike frame worth $675? To you? To me? I believe he acknowledged that he doesn't expect to convince you of anything. And stopped wearing one... because it costs something, right? And statistics have convinced you that the benefit (if you acknowledge any benefit at all, that is) is not worth this cost. But I - and I imagine many others - do not make this cost/benefit decision based on anything that goes on with other people. I base it on my own experience and perception of *my* own individual risk. Classic. Without trying to be obnoxious about it, I would simply suggest that Frank, like many people in many different forums, is searching for the "silver bullet". By that, I mean the "QED" piece of evidence that, once and for all time, sets the hypothetical matter to rest. There is simply no such thing. That mentality isn't limited to those of us in the United States; however, however, other societies seem to tolerate life's ambiguity better than we do. We (in the US) tend to declare "Mission accomplished", game over... and we're honestly confused when the other side of the matter disagrees. "Why, they're *terrorists*, of course... why can't they see that we won?" Helmets work for the same reason condoms work; they're passive devices. That said, the old "Sheath that dagger before you bag her" campaigns of the '80s were profoundly ineffective at reducing STDs. That doesn't mean condoms don't work, though. I still choose to wear a condom when I cycle. Back to my point... I had one here, someplace, I'm sure. In human behavior, there are no definitive studies, no statistical "silver bullets" ... the intelligent consumer of research looks at the whole body without trying to find that which proves some religous belief or pet theory. Ultimately, the individual has to make an informed decision and accept responsibility for that decision. |
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#102
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Should you wear a bicycle foam hat while riding a recumbent?
On May 6, 3:55 pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote: On 5/6/2011 7:39 AM, Tom Lake falsely quoted due to improper software programming: snip Do you agree that quitting smoking is a healthful lifestyle change that everyone should do? The early deaths will save on retirement costs. The societal cost of so many individuals' unnecessarily poor health is enormous, and the horrible cost of a drawn out miserable end - for the sick individuals and for those who care about them - is incalculable. (That said, quitting can be hard.) |
#103
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Should you wear a helmet while riding a recumbent?
On 5/4/2011 7:26 AM, Opus wrote:
In the event of getting hit with a car helmet use has little to no effect on head injury. Bicycle helmets are designed for a 12.5 MPH impact, in TX the statutory lowest speed limit is 30 MPH for residential streets. You're mistakenly assuming that should your bicycle be struck by a vehicle moving at 30MPH that your head will hit the ground at 30MPH. You're also mistakenly assuming that even if you did hit the ground at 30MPH that there would be no difference in the severity of injuries with or without a helmet. |
#104
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Should you wear a helmet while riding a recumbent?
On 5/4/2011 6:16 PM, Chalo wrote:
snip You ask me to disregard observations I have made directly from innumerable crashes of my own, and from the crashes of people I know. Absolutely. The enormous body of statistical and scientific evidence that clearly shows the beneficial effects of bicycle helmets in head injury crashes trumps your tiny bit of anecdotal data (if that anecdotal data exists at all). |
#105
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Should you wear a helmet while riding a recumbent?
On 5/4/2011 8:45 PM, Tom Lake wrote:
The argument seems to be analogous to: "Prohibition does not reduce alcoholism; therefore, we should not attempt to reduce alcoholism; in fact, alcoholism is a perfectly positive lifestyle choice." Helmet laws haven't exactly worked; To the contrary, every place they have been introduced helmet usage has gone up, head injuries have gone down, and the level of cycling activity, much to the dismay of those opposed to helmets, has not been affected. |
#106
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Should you wear a bicycle foam hat while riding a recumbent?
On Sat, 07 May 2011 15:41:44 +0100, in rec.bicycles.tech Phil W Lee
wrote: Tom Lake considered Fri, 06 May 2011 12:23:31 -0500 the perfect time to write: You said -- A valid argument for what? That studies of this type will tend to be all over the spectrum? Essentially, you take them all and look for a general trend. -- endquote No, you evaluate them to see why there is a difference between them, and decide which is wrong so that you can exclude it. There is no democracy in science. You said -- I'm only concerned with Scuffham in that it demonstrates how, when faced with contradictory findings, people will accept that which they already believed and dismiss the rest as conspiracy. That happens every day. -- endquote But that isn't what many of us have done - my original position was in line with Scuffham's later findings, and it was my studying of the research that led me to realise that it was necessary to exclude the bad science and look only at the good. As a result, I changed my position. I am not unique in that - many of us here have done the same. You said -- Of course, I haven't *read* Scuffham; I read and criticize research for a living. If I ever get through the huge pile of it on my desk, I have a few novels to read... *then* I'll get to it. -- endquote If you haven't read it, you're hardly in a position to comment on it. And if you really do it for a living, your employer should demand that you return whatever you've been paid for it, as the money has clearly been obtained under false pretences. Save the last paragraph's ad hominem, I see nothing here with which I'd have any serious issue. In social science, you will quite frequently see studies that paint quite different shapes of the world. This does not mean that any of them are wrong. What the intelligent observer should avoid is picking a particular side and becoming the champion of that point of view. Survey this thread and consider the strong language. Read your own posting and look for evidence of bias in your own language. (You accuse me of obtaining my salary "under false pretences"???) People clearly have strong feelings here. What is it about *this* topic that causes you (et.al.) to start slavering and snarling like a yard full of rottweilers to a kid dragging a stick across the picket fence? Stop thinking of research as a bag of rocks to throw at the other side of the debate; look at it, instead, as a geoligist would see those same rocks... their relative positions and differences are significant. He doesn't try to win arguments by having more rocks to throw. |
#107
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Should you wear a bicycle foam hat while riding a recumbent?
On Sat, 7 May 2011 07:57:45 -0700 (PDT), in rec.bicycles.tech Dan O
wrote: (That said, quitting can be hard.) It takes lots of practice. |
#108
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Should you wear a helmet while riding a recumbent?
On 5/6/2011 1:58 AM, Harry Brogan wrote:
I can certainly agree that bicycle head injuries are rare. I am a member of the "over-the-handlebars" club and it wasn't a lot of fun smashing my head against the sidewalk. Now, just in case, I do wear a helmet. Simply because I don't want to end up with a more serious injury than what I had then. The problem with Frank is that he first decided that he was against helmets then he went out and looked for data that supported his position. Unable to find any statistically or scientifically sound data to support his views, he decided on the approach of the birthers and the global warming deniers, just make it up! When confronted with the facts, that he actually knows to be true, he retreats to the world of "driving helmets" and such. |
#109
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Should you wear a helmet while riding a recumbent?
On Sat, 07 May 2011 08:35:09 -0700, in rec.bicycles.tech SMS
wrote: Absolutely. The enormous body of statistical and scientific evidence that clearly shows the beneficial effects of bicycle helmets in head injury crashes trumps your tiny bit of anecdotal data (if that anecdotal data exists at all). I'll argue with you for the same reason I'll take issue with Frank when he spouts something like: "The enormous body of statistical and scientific evidence clearly shows the harmful effects of bicycle helmets." Common sense would suggest that an energy dissipating material is a good thing to have between your body and the pavement when you slam into it; however, I have never seen any scientific experimental studies to that effect. They'd have to pay me a *lot* of money before I'd participate in such a study! |
#110
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Should you wear a helmet while riding a recumbent?
On 5/7/2011 8:43 AM, SMS wrote:
On 5/6/2011 1:58 AM, Harry Brogan wrote: I can certainly agree that bicycle head injuries are rare. I am a member of the "over-the-handlebars" club and it wasn't a lot of fun smashing my head against the sidewalk. Now, just in case, I do wear a helmet. Simply because I don't want to end up with a more serious injury than what I had then. The problem with Frank is that he first decided that he was against helmets then he went out and looked for data that supported his position. Unable to find any statistically or scientifically sound data to support his views, he decided on the approach of the birthers and the global warming deniers, just make it up! When confronted with the facts, that he actually knows to be true, he retreats to the world of "driving helmets" and such. Incidentally, if you want data from the authoritative site on helmet myths and facts, just put "helmet myths" into Google and click on "I'm Feeling Lucky." You'll be taken to the #1 site on the web that explores the myths and facts regarding bicycle helmets and it effectively debunks most of what Frank posts regarding helmets. If you have "Google Instant" on, that site will show up at the top when you enter "helmet myths." It's also #1 on Yahoo. Oh wait, I forgot to mention, it's my site! |
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