Bicycle Drift, revisited...

A while back, there was a thread discussing the technique, equipment,
and road conditions required to "peel out" on a bicycle like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzC6yU6DhkY

I won't pretend to know exactly where this footage was shot. But I
wonder if the video below could possibly shed some insight into the road
surface that allows such a feat to be possible:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdZl2BpDAc

Any thoughts?
\\paul

On Jan 6, 4:04*pm, "Paul M. Hobson" wrote:
A while back, there was a thread discussing the technique, equipment,
and road conditions required to "peel out" on a bicycle like this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzC6yU6DhkY

I won't pretend to know exactly where this footage was shot. *But I
wonder if the video below could possibly shed some insight into the road
surface that allows such a feat to be possible:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdZl2BpDAc

Any thoughts?
\\paul

Yeah, I've got a thought.
Arab roads are paved with glass.
Or petroleum jelly.

ABS

Paul M. Hobson writes:

A while back, there was a thread discussing the technique,
equipment, and road conditions required to "peel out" on a bicycle
like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzC6yU6DhkY

I won't pretend to know exactly where this footage was shot. But I
wonder if the video below could possibly shed some insight into the
road surface that allows such a feat to be possible:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdZl2BpDAc

You'll notice the bicyclists are riding in winter with gloves and warm
clothes and if you look even closer, I am sure they are riding on a
street with ice on it. Their skid paths leave white ice granules on
the otherwise uniformly slick surface.

Besides, their traction is so poor that they don't lean in turns and
don't have much propulsion traction either.

Jobst Brandt

In article , Paul M. Hobson
wrote:

A while back, there was a thread discussing the technique, equipment,
and road conditions required to "peel out" on a bicycle like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzC6yU6DhkY

I won't pretend to know exactly where this footage was shot. But I
wonder if the video below could possibly shed some insight into the road
surface that allows such a feat to be possible:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdZl2BpDAc

Any thoughts?
\\paul

I suspect the condition of the road has less to do with the particulars
than the condition of the tire (in video one) and the sandals (in video
2).

In the first video it seems a white residue is present in the wake of
the hotdogger's burn outs. Perhaps the cyclist dipped applied a can of
Pam or lard to his rear tire. ;-)

On 07 Jan 2008 01:31:57 GMT, wrote:

Paul M. Hobson writes:

A while back, there was a thread discussing the technique,
equipment, and road conditions required to "peel out" on a bicycle
like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzC6yU6DhkY

I won't pretend to know exactly where this footage was shot. But I
wonder if the video below could possibly shed some insight into the
road surface that allows such a feat to be possible:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdZl2BpDAc

You'll notice the bicyclists are riding in winter with gloves and warm
clothes and if you look even closer, I am sure they are riding on a
street with ice on it. Their skid paths leave white ice granules on
the otherwise uniformly slick surface.

Besides, their traction is so poor that they don't lean in turns and
don't have much propulsion traction either.

Jobst Brandt

Dear Jobst,

Yes, you just as sure that it was ice the last time that this video
was discussed:


http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...df6 1c4070286

But everyone seemed to disagree with your theory.

Most people ended up thinking about bleach on the rear tire or the
extremely fine sand that's found in some areas.

The gloves aren't exactly an indicator of frost. After all, lots of
people wear gloves when they do bicycle stunts, regardless of the
temperature.

As for the poor traction, the rider's front wheel never seems to slip
as if it was on any icy surface.

Bleach or fine sand might explain both the bicycle video _and_ the car
video, but it's not likely that there was any ice on that Arabian
highway.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

wrote in message
...
On 07 Jan 2008 01:31:57 GMT, wrote:

Paul M. Hobson writes:

A while back, there was a thread discussing the technique,
equipment, and road conditions required to "peel out" on a bicycle
like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzC6yU6DhkY

I won't pretend to know exactly where this footage was shot. But I
wonder if the video below could possibly shed some insight into the
road surface that allows such a feat to be possible:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdZl2BpDAc

You'll notice the bicyclists are riding in winter with gloves and warm
clothes and if you look even closer, I am sure they are riding on a
street with ice on it. Their skid paths leave white ice granules on
the otherwise uniformly slick surface.

Besides, their traction is so poor that they don't lean in turns and
don't have much propulsion traction either.

Jobst Brandt

Dear Jobst,

Yes, you just as sure that it was ice the last time that this video
was discussed:


http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...df6 1c4070286

But everyone seemed to disagree with your theory.

Most people ended up thinking about bleach on the rear tire or the
extremely fine sand that's found in some areas.

The gloves aren't exactly an indicator of frost. After all, lots of
people wear gloves when they do bicycle stunts, regardless of the
temperature.

As for the poor traction, the rider's front wheel never seems to slip
as if it was on any icy surface.

Bleach or fine sand might explain both the bicycle video _and_ the car
video, but it's not likely that there was any ice on that Arabian
highway.

You'll also notice that the rider is leaning very far forward reducing
the weight on the rear wheel. When he sits on the seat traction returns.

Phil H

On Jan 6, 5:04*pm, "Paul M. Hobson" wrote:
A while back, there was a thread discussing the technique, equipment,
and road conditions required to "peel out" on a bicycle like this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzC6yU6DhkY

I won't pretend to know exactly where this footage was shot. *But I
wonder if the video below could possibly shed some insight into the road
surface that allows such a feat to be possible:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdZl2BpDAc

Any thoughts?
\\paul

Yeah, two of them:

1. It's lucky for those guys that lanes on a Riyadh highway are
delineated with paint, not Botts' dots.

2. It's almost surely fine sand in the second video. Ice in Riyadh?
There's a reason they built a place called "Snow World" there. At
about 24 degrees North latitude and 2000 feet elevation, they don't
exactly get a lot of snow and ice. Even if it did happen, those cars
on the highway would not be driving at that speed. Further, if it was
cold enough to sustain a thin layer of ice on a black roadway in the
sun, those men would not be enjoying themselves with exposed skin in
the wind at highway speeds. You can be certain it is not ice. If it
were some sort of slippery substance on the men's shoes, the substance
would be consumed. The distance they travel during the video indicates
that the roadway is almost surely the source of the friction-reducing
material. And since it isn't ice, what else can it be other than fine
sand? And in light of that, it's likely that the phenomenon in the
second video is the same as the one in the first.

Stephen Greenwood

On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 19:41:02 -0800, "Phil Holman"
piholmanc@yourservice wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On 07 Jan 2008 01:31:57 GMT, wrote:

Paul M. Hobson writes:

A while back, there was a thread discussing the technique,
equipment, and road conditions required to "peel out" on a bicycle
like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzC6yU6DhkY

I won't pretend to know exactly where this footage was shot. But I
wonder if the video below could possibly shed some insight into the
road surface that allows such a feat to be possible:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdZl2BpDAc

You'll notice the bicyclists are riding in winter with gloves and warm
clothes and if you look even closer, I am sure they are riding on a
street with ice on it. Their skid paths leave white ice granules on
the otherwise uniformly slick surface.

Besides, their traction is so poor that they don't lean in turns and
don't have much propulsion traction either.

Jobst Brandt

Dear Jobst,

Yes, you just as sure that it was ice the last time that this video
was discussed:


http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...df6 1c4070286

But everyone seemed to disagree with your theory.

Most people ended up thinking about bleach on the rear tire or the
extremely fine sand that's found in some areas.

The gloves aren't exactly an indicator of frost. After all, lots of
people wear gloves when they do bicycle stunts, regardless of the
temperature.

As for the poor traction, the rider's front wheel never seems to slip
as if it was on any icy surface.

Bleach or fine sand might explain both the bicycle video _and_ the car
video, but it's not likely that there was any ice on that Arabian
highway.

You'll also notice that the rider is leaning very far forward reducing
the weight on the rear wheel. When he sits on the seat traction returns.

Phil H

Dear Phil,

True.

However, the sandal-skidders appear to have full weight on their feet
for about a mile of apparently dry asphalt on a busy highway at much
higher speeds.

If it's something on their shoes (like bleach), I'm astonished that it
lasts so long, but a really slippery sole would explain why their feet
aren't smoking.

I like to think that, somewhere out there, happy young Arabs are
having a wonderful time, sliding wildly on bicycles and sandals and
laughing about how clueless and easily astonished certain posters on
RBT are.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 20:20:14 -0800 (PST), Stephen Greenwood
wrote:

On Jan 6, 5:04*pm, "Paul M. Hobson" wrote:
A while back, there was a thread discussing the technique, equipment,
and road conditions required to "peel out" on a bicycle like this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzC6yU6DhkY

I won't pretend to know exactly where this footage was shot. *But I
wonder if the video below could possibly shed some insight into the road
surface that allows such a feat to be possible:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdZl2BpDAc

Any thoughts?
\\paul

Yeah, two of them:

1. It's lucky for those guys that lanes on a Riyadh highway are
delineated with paint, not Botts' dots.

2. It's almost surely fine sand in the second video. Ice in Riyadh?
There's a reason they built a place called "Snow World" there. At
about 24 degrees North latitude and 2000 feet elevation, they don't
exactly get a lot of snow and ice. Even if it did happen, those cars
on the highway would not be driving at that speed. Further, if it was
cold enough to sustain a thin layer of ice on a black roadway in the
sun, those men would not be enjoying themselves with exposed skin in
the wind at highway speeds. You can be certain it is not ice. If it
were some sort of slippery substance on the men's shoes, the substance
would be consumed. The distance they travel during the video indicates
that the roadway is almost surely the source of the friction-reducing
material. And since it isn't ice, what else can it be other than fine
sand? And in light of that, it's likely that the phenomenon in the
second video is the same as the one in the first.

Stephen Greenwood

Dear Stephen,

Fine sand and bleach were the most popular theories with the original
bicycle video.

***

The trouble with bleach is that it seems to last an awfully long time
down that highway, though I suppose that if you soaked the sandals
overnight bleach (or something similar), it might last longer than
expected.

***

The trouble with fine sand is that the sandals show no sign of
smoking, much less being sandpapered off under full body weight for
over a mile at high speed.

Nor does there seem to be any sand blown up by the draft of the
numerous cars. If it's really fine sand, you'd expect to see a least a
little sand storm. The white robes aren't getting dirty, as far as I
can see.

The cars on the busy road show no sign of poor traction, but the
sandals are probably much more lightly loaded per square inch than car
tires.

And maybe ultra-fine free sand doesn't work like sand glued to a belt
sander.

***

I'd love to have the trick explained by someone who actually does it.

I'd like it even more if it turns out to be something none of us have
thought of.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

On Jan 6, 9:50*pm, wrote:
The trouble with bleach is that it seems to last an awfully long time
down that highway, though I suppose that if you soaked the sandals
overnight bleach (or something similar), it might last longer than
expected.

Hi Carl,

Maybe. It would have to be a *lot* longer than I expect. I've heard of
people pouring bleach on the ground to help initiate a burnout with
cars and motorcycles, but never heard of anyone pouring it on the tire
itself.

The trouble with fine sand is that the sandals show no sign of
smoking, much less being sandpapered off under full body weight for
over a mile at high speed.

Nor does there seem to be any sand blown up by the draft of the
numerous cars. If it's really fine sand, you'd expect to see a least a
little sand storm. The white robes aren't getting dirty, as far as I
can see.

I thought of that, but assumed it was simply beyond the camera's
resolution in the second video. There is a little "trail" visible in
the first one.

The cars on the busy road show no sign of poor traction, but the
sandals are probably much more lightly loaded per square inch than car
tires.

My thought also.

And maybe ultra-fine free sand doesn't work like sand glued to a belt
sander.

Yes, I imagine the fine sand acts more like tiny spheres rolling,
rather than translating and abrading the sandals or tires.

I'd love to have the trick explained by someone who actually does it.

Indeed that would be cool. I still vote for the sand, though. Check
this one out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E14GN2_zNE

The spray (for lack of a better word) and the "trail" are clearly
visible. How can any tire, even a bleach-impregnated one, fling up so
much material? A glance at the guy's clothing suggests it isn't ice in
that one, either.

Bettery yet, try this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpl2o2nfxj8

Look at the part at about 0:35. Even with the poor video quality, a
significant amount of spray is visible when the fellow crashes. His
falling body produces a little cloud of dust. That can't come from
bleached tires, but sure is consistent with fine sand. And I can't
help but notice that all four of these videos appear to be from Arab
or Middle Eastern countries.

Stephen Greenwood