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#321
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Why the pros are slowing down.
On Jul 30, 10:58Â*pm, Joe Riel wrote:
DirtRoadie writes: When you read Sheldon's post found (in its entirety) at http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...ae61efd0f766ea where he said •Easiery entry (a BIG plus on a fixed gear.) •Better ground crearance. [Damn, I never knew he was Japanese] [edited] ... for the past Â*several years I've been firmly in the SPD camp. Â*SPDs beat platforms on the Â*first two points hands down. At the risk---nay, certainty---of extending this kerfuffle long past its expiration date, that post of Sheldon's, like the one Frank posted, is not entirely clear. Â*At first it seems to be, but one could argue, given that *fixies* was the topic of the thread and post, that Sheldon was specifically referring to entry into pedals on a *fixie*. I haven't had the pleasure of riding a fixie, but assume that SPDs are indeed easier to engage than Lyotards, on a fixie. Â*Anyone with experience? Â*That doesn't necessarily mean they are easier on a standard bike. Â*If there is a difference [of ease of entry on a standard bike] it is presumably minor. If ease of entry, fixie or otherwise, is the main criterion for pedal selection, then flat pedals are the way to go. Â*The BMX racers seem to do pretty well with them, albeit for short duration. Â*They can pump out some impressive rpms and, presumably, bursts of power. -- Joe Riel Noted. Remarkable that anyone with any technical credential would be trying to parse Sheldon's words to reach an understanding. Please have Frank describe his experience with getting into Mod 23's at 10â—¦ 20â—¦ 30â—¦ 40â—¦ 50â—¦ 60â—¦ 70â—¦ 80â—¦ and 90â—¦ either while the crank is moving (inherent with fixed gear) or while it is stationary. I will respond with the same result as specifically noted today while riding double sided SPD's. But briefly summarized - regardless of crank orientation, you put your foot on the pedal and go. In or out, regardless of crank orientation, crank movement; with little issue of pedal pressure. If you or Frank want to debate the semantics of what Sheldon clearly said, fine, we'll find a medium to channel him. I'm sure Sheldon will get a kick out of it. But if you want to work with real world situations, real riders and real data, I volunteer. But no ****ing way will I do it in Bum-****- Ohio. DR |
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#322
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Why the pros are slowing down.
On Jul 30, 11:04*pm, wrote:
On Monday, July 30, 2012 10:44:26 PM UTC-4, Dan O wrote: On Jul 30, 7:07 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote: Jay Beattie wrote: On Jul 30, 2:25 pm, Duane *wrote: On 7/30/2012 12:35 PM, DirtRoadie wrote: On Jul 30, 9:59 am, Frank wrote: DirtRoadie wrote: On Jul 29, 7:19 pm, Frank * * *wrote: Well, that's what's being implied! Heck, I stated my practical reasons for not preferring SPD, and got hammered. Frank you got hammered for implicitly lying about your [non] experience with SPD's and for expressly lying about Sheldon having agreed with you in an email. Sorry dude you were busted. Don't forget it. I won't. Sheldon Brown: *"Nothing else is as easy to get into as the Lyotards, though." *Posted _after_ he'd already said he prefers SPDs overall. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...615a0597fcc858 -- - Frank Krygowski Yes, Frank we know how your delusions *have you cherry picking words and ignoring/deleting context. That why I previously had to provide another link to clear things up. Rather than relying on trying to force the context into something it isn't, read: * *http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...ae61efd0f766ea Where Sheldon specifically referred to several models of platforms * *including Mod 23's *and wrote : * * "SPDs beat platforms [including mods 23's] *on ...[ease of entry] hands down." Sheldon did make a typo and refer to "Easiery entry" Hey, Frank as long as your are intent upon sharing your delusions, how about *digging up that email that you claim Sheldon sent you: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...4f31bb2ce3a551 Can't find it? Gee, imagine that! How many types of pedals have come out since Sheldon left us? *Do you think he would have tried any of them? *I can't say that I knew him but I've read his stuff for years and I have the impression that he would use what works better even if it was new. The dude liked old French bikes and had a fondness for their quirks, so the fact he dumped Lyotards for SPDs says that he really, really liked them. *I don't think he liked them because they were harder to get in to -- not unless he was a masochist. Hey, he liked old French bikes, so maybe he was a masochist! A couple points: *First, he said he liked SPDs best overall, and that they were better than any platform pedals then available. *That's in the Dec. 30, 2001 post that DirtRoadie keeps bringing up. HOWEVER, in the Dec 4 2004 post that I recalled (the one athttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/fbfd7b6d5b8a35d7) Sheldon said "Nothing else is as easy to get into as the Lyotards, though." *And even if DR is confused on this point, Dec. 4, 2004 was actually AFTER Dec. 30, 2001. See? *You're *still* doing it! Oh, and in the Dec. 30, 2001 post he closed by saying "MY CURRENT ADVICE IS TO USE WHATEVER PEDALS YOU ARE MOST USED TO AND MOST COMFORTABLE WITH. The ability to engage the pedal quickly while it is in motion is the main issue with pedals for fixed gear use." *[Emphasis mine.] *It sounds like he would not call a person a fool for using non-SPD pedals, guys. Did you not suggest that people (sheeple) choose SPD for foolish reasons? Not at all. *I just suggested that non-SPD worked better for me, based on my priorities. - Frank Krygowski Apologies for any blank responses. Frank, you have established a platform to acknowledge the truth that you have denied, kicking and screaming, all along. So. True or false- "Lyotard mod 23 's work well for me based upon my priorities and my experience, although I have never used double sided Shimano SPD's or similar pedals ." That about cover it doesn't it? Thanks, DR |
#323
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Why the pros are slowing down.
On Jul 30, 10:41*pm, "Tom $herman (-_-)" ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote: On 7/30/2012 8:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: Dan O wrote: Rolling Stone, OTOH, usually has worthwhile articles every other week on average (you might want to spend your magazine skimming time more wisely). *The recent Charlie Sheen article was exceptionally insightful for about the first half, but then kind of lost it in the second half (I won't go so far as to say fell apart, though I felt like it sort of did). I think the most I've read on Charlie Sheen was about two column inches at a time, and that was long ago. *That stuff just doesn't interest me. Charlie who? -- Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W Post Free or Die! Ultimately, it's not particularly important. Did you ever read this post? http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...ae61efd0f766ea You like (and use) SPD's, right? DR |
#324
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Why the pros are slowing down.
DirtRoadie writes:
On Jul 30, 10:58Â*pm, Joe Riel wrote: DirtRoadie writes: When you read Sheldon's post found (in its entirety) at http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...ae61efd0f766ea where he said •Easiery entry (a BIG plus on a fixed gear.) •Better ground crearance. [Damn, I never knew he was Japanese] [edited] ... for the past Â*several years I've been firmly in the SPD camp. Â*SPDs beat platforms on the Â*first two points hands down. At the risk---nay, certainty---of extending this kerfuffle long past its expiration date, that post of Sheldon's, like the one Frank posted, is not entirely clear. Â*At first it seems to be, but one could argue, given that *fixies* was the topic of the thread and post, that Sheldon was specifically referring to entry into pedals on a *fixie*. I haven't had the pleasure of riding a fixie, but assume that SPDs are indeed easier to engage than Lyotards, on a fixie. Â*Anyone with experience? Â*That doesn't necessarily mean they are easier on a standard bike. Â*If there is a difference [of ease of entry on a standard bike] it is presumably minor. If ease of entry, fixie or otherwise, is the main criterion for pedal selection, then flat pedals are the way to go. Â*The BMX racers seem to do pretty well with them, albeit for short duration. Â*They can pump out some impressive rpms and, presumably, bursts of power. -- Joe Riel Noted. Remarkable that anyone with any technical credential would be trying to parse Sheldon's words to reach an understanding. I wasn't parsing them so as to determine which is better; I'm happy using SPDs and wouldn't care if Sheldon had stated that they were the work of the devil. Rather I was trying to reconcile the two seemingly disparate quotes. A fruitless exercise, to be sure. With SPDs I always engage the right foot (my first foot) with the pedal at the bottom. Don't recall when the left foot usually fully engages, probably near the bottom of the downstroke. -- Joe Riel |
#325
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Why the pros are slowing down.
On Jul 31, 7:36*am, Joe Riel wrote:
DirtRoadie writes: On Jul 30, 10:58*pm, Joe Riel wrote: DirtRoadie writes: When you read Sheldon's post found (in its entirety) at http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...ae61efd0f766ea where he said •Easiery entry (a BIG plus on a fixed gear.) •Better ground crearance. [Damn, I never knew he was Japanese] [edited] ... for the past *several years I've been firmly in the SPD camp. *SPDs beat platforms on the *first two points hands down. At the risk---nay, certainty---of extending this kerfuffle long past its expiration date, that post of Sheldon's, like the one Frank posted, is not entirely clear. *At first it seems to be, but one could argue, given that *fixies* was the topic of the thread and post, that Sheldon was specifically referring to entry into pedals on a *fixie*. I haven't had the pleasure of riding a fixie, but assume that SPDs are indeed easier to engage than Lyotards, on a fixie. *Anyone with experience? *That doesn't necessarily mean they are easier on a standard bike. *If there is a difference [of ease of entry on a standard bike] it is presumably minor. If ease of entry, fixie or otherwise, is the main criterion for pedal selection, then flat pedals are the way to go. *The BMX racers seem to do pretty well with them, albeit for short duration. *They can pump out some impressive rpms and, presumably, bursts of power. -- Joe Riel Noted. Remarkable that anyone with any technical credential would be trying to parse Sheldon's words to reach an understanding. I wasn't parsing them so as to determine which is better; I'm happy using SPDs and wouldn't care if Sheldon had stated that they were the work of the devil. *Rather I was trying to reconcile the two seemingly disparate quotes. *A fruitless exercise, to be sure. With further experience, his relative appreciation changed. With SPDs I always engage the right foot (my first foot) with the pedal at the bottom. *Don't recall when the left foot usually fully engages, probably near the bottom of the downstroke. -- Joe Riel |
#326
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Why the pros are slowing down.
On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 01:44:12 +0000, Ralph Barone wrote:
Too bad ShelbroCo is out of business. I'm thinking clipless gloves; they keep your hands securely attached to the bars. Easier to enter then straps and grips. Once properly aligned they will hold your arms in the optimal position for maximum power delivery. Available with and without float---the sprinters will prefer the latter. Nah... We need the clipless helmet, to get rid of those silly chin straps. An outstanding idea! Velcro and sideburns. Think of the weight saving. -- davethedave |
#327
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Why the pros are slowing down.
On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 22:57:46 -0500, Tom $herman (-_-) wrote:
Nice spread of torque gives it some grunt when riding: http://www.motorcycle.com/gallery/gallery.php? g2_view=largephotos.Largephotos&g2_itemId=228878. You can ask the little **** driving daddy's BMW M3 who tried to out-drag me and cut me off (2 lanes reducing to 1 lane after an intersection) just how slow the "Dullsville" is. Or the guy in the Lexus IS250 who thought he could jump in front of me at a green light. Quarter-mile runs of ~13.7 seconds / ~100 mph are equal to or better than most 1980's super-cars (e.g. Ferrari Testarossa) could do. I was taken for a ride in a mates shiny new BMW M3 once. I parked my ZX7R at his place. He said I'll take you for a spin and show you what it's got. He proceeded to give it the beans to the redline through 4 gears. I turned to him in all seriousness and said... "Is that it?" He wasn't impressed. However slight digression aside. This is a technical bicycle newsgroup dedicated to the discussion of SPDs vs Leotards or mankinis or whatever. So lets at least try and keep it on topic eh. You can go boast about your penis extending Dullsville and CBR in the motorcycle news groups if you want. No one will be impressed over there though, as you well know. -- davethedave |
#328
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Why the pros are slowing down.
On 7/30/2012 9:24 PM, Dan O wrote:
On Jul 30, 4:08 pm, Jay wrote: On Jul 30, 2:25 pm, Duane wrote: On 7/30/2012 12:35 PM, DirtRoadie wrote: On Jul 30, 9:59 am, Frank wrote: DirtRoadie wrote: On Jul 29, 7:19 pm, Frank wrote: Well, that's what's being implied! Heck, I stated my practical reasons for not preferring SPD, and got hammered. Frank you got hammered for implicitly lying about your [non] experience with SPD's and for expressly lying about Sheldon having agreed with you in an email. Sorry dude you were busted. Don't forget it. I won't. Sheldon Brown: "Nothing else is as easy to get into as the Lyotards, though." Posted _after_ he'd already said he prefers SPDs overall. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...615a0597fcc858 -- - Frank Krygowski Yes, Frank we know how your delusions have you cherry picking words and ignoring/deleting context. That why I previously had to provide another link to clear things up. Rather than relying on trying to force the context into something it isn't, read: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...ae61efd0f766ea Where Sheldon specifically referred to several models of platforms including Mod 23's and wrote : "SPDs beat platforms [including mods 23's] on ...[ease of entry] hands down." Sheldon did make a typo and refer to "Easiery entry" Hey, Frank as long as your are intent upon sharing your delusions, how about digging up that email that you claim Sheldon sent you: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...4f31bb2ce3a551 Can't find it? Gee, imagine that! How many types of pedals have come out since Sheldon left us? Do you think he would have tried any of them? I can't say that I knew him but I've read his stuff for years and I have the impression that he would use what works better even if it was new. The dude liked old French bikes and had a fondness for their quirks, so the fact he dumped Lyotards for SPDs says that he really, really liked them. I don't think he liked them because they were harder to get in to -- not unless he was a masochist. Hey, he liked old French bikes, so maybe he was a masochist! My impression is that Sheldon must have regarded SPD a worthwhile development - superior to other pedal choices. Why else would anyone wear it all the time? It's not too cool the way Frank is pressing his impression of Sheldon's opinion and meaning when he's not here to clarify it. And he was definitely quirky. Nothing wrong with that; far from it; quite the contrary. Like I say I never met him but he was something of a legend when I lived in Boston. Quirky is one of my favorite character traits and probably why I read what he wrote. That and the fact that his practical advice was very good. |
#329
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Why the pros are slowing down.
On 7/31/2012 3:18 AM, thirty-six wrote:
snip With further experience, his relative appreciation changed. The ability to learn by experience is something that is missing with our local prophet. With SPDs I always engage the right foot (my first foot) with the pedal at the bottom. Don't recall when the left foot usually fully engages, probably near the bottom of the downstroke. That's a good example of ease of entry. It's what I miss on the road bike. Once I'm used to the SPDs and switch back to the road bike with the KEOs, I have to actually think when clipping in. This is why I was asking about Speedplays. |
#330
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Why the pros are slowing down.
On Jul 29, 5:46*pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/29/2012 4:50 PM, wrote: On Jul 29, 9:53 am, Frank Krygowski let the attack dog within him loose, and wrote: So are you saying you have ceramic bearings on every bike you own? Have you taken the time to drill lots of holes in your chainrings? Did you ream out the inside of your seatpost yet? *If not, is there some good reason your behavior doesn't match your arguments here? *Be specific. How about "taping your ears", Frank. That's one of your favorite insults. Part of what I'm arguing against here is the weird notion that anything _supposedly_ better for racers must never be questioned for anyone else. *People claim STI shifts easier, so even a tourist shouldn't use bar-ends. *Or, SPD is more secure, so riding with toe clips is foolish. *Or, carbon fiber is lighter and stiffer, so riding old steel is quirky and ignorant. There we go, those last few words are telling. "Quirky and ignorant". Are we trying on shoes here-- IOW finding ones that fit and pinch at the same time? There's no question whatsoever that "STI" shifts "easier" and is "better for racers", excepting TT bikes for obvious reasons of functionality. SPD pedals are "more secure" compared to clips/straps/cleats, but most of all, not having a strap crushing your foot if it is tightened up securely enough to hold the cleat in the pedal so your foot doesn't pull out at a bad time (which, due to the nature of pedaling a bicycle, tends to be the normal fail mode, "at a bad time"). I have foot problems due to injury that were no doubt whatsoever exacerbated by years of using clips and straps. If I still "had" to use straps, I wouldn't be riding, and that goes back 20 years to when I had a foot operated on for "Larry Bird Toe" (not exact but "close enough" according to the surgeon). If you wanted to go back and get testimony from "racers" about foot damage from straps, you could do so, Frank. There were comments to that effect when the change away from straps to "SPD" (actually, Look first IMS, at least among roadies that I knew). Don't try to tell me I don't know how to tighten a toe strap properly, either. But another part of what I'm arguing is the strange idea that in racing, nothing is negligible. We have people here claiming that _any_ reduction in weight _always_ helps - even in a flat time trial. We've had at least one guy once talk about the aero advantages of proper finger position in a TT! And we've had people say that if it helps even a little in a TT, it can't be negligible even drafting in the middle of a huge peloton. Yet nobody here has told of implementing several of these minuscule improvements and demonstrating significant benefit, let alone a race win. *And even the "nothing is negligible" crowd no longer bothers to drill a hundred holes in their chainrings.http://www.43bikes.com/fortythree/ww/drilling-do1.jpg So how did _that_ become negligible? People figured out that, along with tinfoil rims, lightness wasn't everything if your bike didn't make it across the finish line. I never saw much breakage due to drilling but I sure-enough saw tinfoil rim failure, one such at a big, annual race back in about 1980 or before that I know changed some minds about tinfoil rims. --D-y Plenty of examples for that sort of thing. Doug Thomas DNF'd at the National Road in Milwaukee 1974 when his front wheel fell apart within sight of the finish line. Yup, built it himself, haphazardly, the night before the race. OTOH Wayne Stetina's famous out of the saddle for 20 some miles championship ride after his new titanium saddle frame failed. But then again he did win it. I suppose you could say that his light equipment didn't quite prevent him from winning, huh? The Weltmeister rim that didn't make it through the "speed dips" at Vail in 1980 sure prevented him from winning g. OTOH, I knew someone who pranged *both* of his shiny-new, oh-so- expensive Mavic SSC Bleu's on some known-deadly rural railroad tracks one fine day. --D-y |
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