Why the pros are slowing down.

On 03/08/12 02:38, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 2-8-2012 8:23, James schreef:
You guys may have to help me out here. So a guy who buys a super
light bike to get himself up the hills on club rides about 3% easier
is not dorky. But if he puts low gears and a matching derailler on
to get himself up those hills much, much easier, he becomes dorky?

Only if the cassette has a pie plate. You *might* get away with a 26 or
perhaps a 27, but certainly not a 28 or above. That's dorky. Ride a
MTB or touring bike.

I hope you are joking otherwise this sounds really stupid.

Well, it's a bit tongue in cheek.

Only if it's on a 900g frame - geez, Frank, keep
up. It's not *that* difficult. A man of your intelligence should be on
top of this already.

Yeah instead of putting on a cassette with a largest cog larger than 28
ride a MTB or touring bike which adds 3-4 kg instead of 100 grams. That
is smart.
If some pro riders find a 34-32 gearing apropriate for some climbs what
is wrong/dorky for us mortals to do the same even if the grade is less
brutal.


http://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/15489/4/cobo-doet-greep-naar-de-macht-op-angliru.html


Watch the movie and see how many pro riders stall.


Sadly it appears the movie is not available in Australia.

I think this is the same climb http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulViOm2PqR8

--
JS

On Aug 2, 12:52*pm, wrote:
On Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:57:38 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Jul 31, 2:52*pm, Frank Krygowski

wrote:

AMuzi wrote:

p..s The underdesigned spring was on Cyclone II.

It happened to me with a cheaper model SunTour, too. *Can't recall
which, though - I've used several.

Well, I didn't ever cobble a repair on a Suntour rear derailleur, you
have me there!

So, "bring a pair of slip-joint pliers" in your cross-country touring
baggage?

4" Vice Grips.

- Frank Krygowski

Oops, I left off the second half of that question: "... for when your
rear derailleur breaks its known-sketchy spring?".

The Vice Grips are a good idea, regardless g.
Point being, if you could fix the spring, great. If not, you couldn't
buy a spare, that I know of.

BTW: Supplying spare parts is a moral issue as far as I'm concerned.
If the spring broke on a racing bike, you might get to use the broom
wagon or whatever. If you're six miles east of Roosterpoot Ark., that
might become a problem.
(Cue theme from Deliverance)
--D-y

On 8/2/2012 12:05 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:04:01 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 02/08/12 13:22, John B. wrote:

On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 08:00:25 +1000,
wrote:

On 02/08/12 05:57, Jay Beattie wrote:

On a SuperSix EVO, Madone 7.9, Felt F1, Ridley, Scott (hey, its Ridley
Scott!) etc. . . . . yes, you're a dork for putting a pie-plate
cassette and long arm derailleur on a 900 gram frame.

Actually, I don't look for people to call dorks or really even call
them dorks if I find them, I just think that.

Got to admit, I haven't noticed any [1], but if I do, I'm sure I'll
think "dork". Likewise the tourers with aero bars - they're dorks too.

Hmmm... Don't the RAAM guys use aero bars?
RAAM riders are tourers? No, it's a *Race* Across AMerica.
Aerobars are not dorky if used in a time trial race.

You guys may have to help me out here. So a guy who buys a super light bike to get himself up the hills on club rides about 3% easier is not dorky. But if he puts low gears and a matching derailler on to get himself up those hills much, much easier, he becomes dorky?
style used in some pro race. But if he uses a different style, that's dorky?

No, wait, I forgot. If he uses the same two-chainring "compact" style used by some pro racer, that's not dorky. But if he uses three chainrings, that's dorky?

And a guy who puts an aero bar on to get through a 15 mile time trial a few seconds faster is not dorky. But a guy who puts on an aero bar to help get through a fierce 8 hour headwind is dorky?

How about my friend, who (last I talked to him) was a full time professional tour leader for a prominent American touring company? He was doing that on a very unusual bike, last I rode with him: suspended mountain bike frame, aero wheels, narrow tires, road bars plus aero bars, very wide range gears. (He was former owner of a bike shop, BTW, and one of the fastest riders in our area, as well as amazingly skilled at observed trials.) Did his bike make him a dork or not?

And would it help or hurt if he put on purple shorts and a faux team jersey? Fashion is so confusing!

- Frank Krygowski


I would not know, but in a random survey of modern people's
opinions (web image search for 'bicycle dorky') helmets
figure prominently:

http://images.devilfinder.com/go.php?q=bicycle+dorky

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 8/2/2012 1:23 AM, James wrote:
On 02/08/12 15:05, wrote:
On Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:04:01 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 02/08/12 13:22, John B. wrote:

On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 08:00:25 +1000,

wrote:

On 02/08/12 05:57, Jay Beattie wrote:

On a SuperSix EVO, Madone 7.9, Felt F1, Ridley, Scott
(hey, its Ridley
Scott!) etc. . . . . yes, you're a dork for putting a
pie-plate
cassette and long arm derailleur on a 900 gram frame.

Actually, I don't look for people to call dorks or
really even call
them dorks if I find them, I just think that.

Got to admit, I haven't noticed any [1], but if I do,
I'm sure I'll
think "dork". Likewise the tourers with aero bars -
they're dorks too.

Hmmm... Don't the RAAM guys use aero bars?
RAAM riders are tourers? No, it's a *Race* Across AMerica.
Aerobars are not dorky if used in a time trial race.


You guys may have to help me out here. So a guy who buys
a super
light bike to get himself up the hills on club rides about
3% easier
is not dorky. But if he puts low gears and a matching
derailler on
to get himself up those hills much, much easier, he
becomes dorky?

Only if the cassette has a pie plate. You *might* get away
with a 26 or perhaps a 27, but certainly not a 28 or above.
That's dorky. Ride a MTB or touring bike.

style used in some pro race. But if he uses a different
style,
that's dorky?

Something got lost in the translation.

No, wait, I forgot. If he uses the same two-chainring
"compact"
style used by some pro racer, that's not dorky. But if he
uses three
chainrings, that's dorky?

Only if it's on a 900g frame - geez, Frank, keep up. It's
not *that* difficult. A man of your intelligence should be
on top of this already.

And a guy who puts an aero bar on to get through a 15 mile
time trial
a few seconds faster is not dorky.

No, because he's racing.

But a guy who puts on an aero bar
to help get through a fierce 8 hour headwind is dorky?

If he's not racing, yes.

How about my friend, who (last I talked to him) was a full
time
professional tour leader for a prominent American touring
company?
He was doing that on a very unusual bike, last I rode with
him:
suspended mountain bike frame, aero wheels, narrow tires,
road bars
plus aero bars, very wide range gears. (He was former
owner of a
bike shop, BTW, and one of the fastest riders in our area,
as well as
amazingly skilled at observed trials.) Did his bike make
him a dork
or not?

Certainly quite odd. Quite possibly dorky. Would need to
see the setup.

And would it help or hurt if he put on purple shorts and a
faux team
jersey? Fashion is so confusing!

You seem to be very interested in purple.

The only jersey I don't like to see on folks is a tour
leaders jersey (or similar) that they obviously didn't
earn. I think it shows little respect for the folks who
earned theirs.


And yet-

PouPou in Mercier Purple was as tough a man as any:

http://www.ridenice.se/Poulidor_file...%20resized.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 03/08/12 09:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/2/2012 1:23 AM, James wrote:
On 02/08/12 15:05, wrote:

And would it help or hurt if he put on purple shorts and a
faux team
jersey? Fashion is so confusing!

You seem to be very interested in purple.

And yet-

PouPou in Mercier Purple was as tough a man as any:

http://www.ridenice.se/Poulidor_file...%20resized.jpg


Frank is probably pointing and laughing right now!

I have no problem with purple.

--
JS.

On Aug 2, 5:45*pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/2/2012 1:23 AM, James wrote:









On 02/08/12 15:05, wrote:
On Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:04:01 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 02/08/12 13:22, John B. wrote:

On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 08:00:25 +1000,

wrote:

On 02/08/12 05:57, Jay Beattie wrote:

On a SuperSix EVO, Madone 7.9, Felt F1, Ridley, Scott
(hey, its Ridley
Scott!) etc. . . . . yes, you're a dork for putting a
pie-plate
cassette and long arm derailleur on a 900 gram frame.

* * Actually, I don't look for people to call dorks or
really even call
them dorks if I find them, *I just think that.

Got to admit, I haven't noticed any [1], but if I do,
I'm sure I'll
think "dork". *Likewise the tourers with aero bars -
they're dorks too.

Hmmm... Don't the RAAM guys use aero bars?
RAAM riders are tourers? *No, it's a *Race* Across AMerica.
Aerobars are not dorky if used in a time trial race.

You guys may have to help me out here. *So a guy who buys
a super
light bike to get himself up the hills on club rides about
3% easier
is not dorky. *But if he puts low gears and a matching
derailler on
to get himself up those hills much, much easier, he
becomes dorky?

Only if the cassette has a pie plate. *You *might* get away
with a 26 or perhaps a 27, but certainly not a 28 or above.
That's dorky. *Ride a MTB or touring bike.

style used in some pro race. *But if he uses a different
style,
that's dorky?

Something got lost in the translation.

No, wait, I forgot. *If he uses the same two-chainring
"compact"
style used by some pro racer, that's not dorky. *But if he
uses three
chainrings, that's dorky?

Only if it's on a 900g frame - geez, Frank, keep up. *It's
not *that* difficult. *A man of your intelligence should be
on top of this already.

And a guy who puts an aero bar on to get through a 15 mile
time trial
a few seconds faster is not dorky.

No, because he's racing.

But a guy who puts on an aero bar
to help get through a fierce 8 hour headwind is dorky?

If he's not racing, yes.

How about my friend, who (last I talked to him) was a full
time
professional tour leader for a prominent American touring
company?
He was doing that on a very unusual bike, last I rode with
him:
suspended mountain bike frame, aero wheels, narrow tires,
road bars
plus aero bars, very wide range gears. *(He was former
owner of a
bike shop, BTW, and one of the fastest riders in our area,
as well as
amazingly skilled at observed trials.) *Did his bike make
him a dork
or not?

Certainly quite odd. *Quite possibly dorky. *Would need to
see the setup.

And would it help or hurt if he put on purple shorts and a
faux team
jersey? *Fashion is so confusing!

You seem to be very interested in purple.

The only jersey I don't like to see on folks is a tour
leaders jersey (or similar) that they obviously didn't
earn. *I think it shows little respect for the folks who
earned theirs.

And yet-

PouPou in Mercier Purple was as tough a man as any:

http://www.ridenice.se/Poulidor_file...%20resized.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
* www.yellowjersey.org/
* Open every day since 1 April, 1971

That's a classy purple.
DR

On Wednesday, August 1, 2012 10:05:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:04:01 AM UTC-4, James wrote:

On 02/08/12 13:22, John B. wrote:



On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 08:00:25 +1000, James

wrote:



On 02/08/12 05:57, Jay Beattie wrote:



On a SuperSix EVO, Madone 7.9, Felt F1, Ridley, Scott (hey, its Ridley

Scott!) etc. . . . . yes, you're a dork for putting a pie-plate

cassette and long arm derailleur on a 900 gram frame.



Actually, I don't look for people to call dorks or really even call

them dorks if I find them, I just think that.



Got to admit, I haven't noticed any [1], but if I do, I'm sure I'll

think "dork". Likewise the tourers with aero bars - they're dorks too.



Hmmm... Don't the RAAM guys use aero bars?

RAAM riders are tourers? No, it's a *Race* Across AMerica.

Aerobars are not dorky if used in a time trial race.



You guys may have to help me out here. So a guy who buys a super light bike to get himself up the hills on club rides about 3% easier is not dorky. But if he puts low gears and a matching derailler on to get himself up those hills much, much easier, he becomes dorky?

style used in some pro race. But if he uses a different style, that's dorky?



No, wait, I forgot. If he uses the same two-chainring "compact" style used by some pro racer, that's not dorky. But if he uses three chainrings, that's dorky?



And a guy who puts an aero bar on to get through a 15 mile time trial a few seconds faster is not dorky. But a guy who puts on an aero bar to help get through a fierce 8 hour headwind is dorky?



How about my friend, who (last I talked to him) was a full time professional tour leader for a prominent American touring company? He was doing that on a very unusual bike, last I rode with him: suspended mountain bike frame, aero wheels, narrow tires, road bars plus aero bars, very wide range gears. (He was former owner of a bike shop, BTW, and one of the fastest riders in our area, as well as amazingly skilled at observed trials.) Did his bike make him a dork or not?



And would it help or hurt if he put on purple shorts and a faux team jersey? Fashion is so confusing!



You seem awfully defensive of dorkiness. Care to lie on the couch and tell us about it? ;-)

On Thursday, August 2, 2012 1:05:54 PM UTC-5, wrote:

The fact that some pros race 34-32s up the Angrilu or some other

mountain peak is a different matter. They are using racing bikes to

race. You would have to kludge a long reach, low stack height racing

bike in so many ways to make it comfortable for some guy who really

needs a 34-32 for daily riding. Why would you do that? It's like

getting a Ferrari for the family car and putting on a trailer hitch to

haul yard debris.



And yet it happens. The first national (LAW) bike convention I went to was in 1978. There was a guy there with a contemporary super-light bike, bragging about how few grams were in each component - Huret Jubilee derailleur, silk tubulars, etc. etc. Thing was, the guy weighed well over 250 pounds, and very little of it was muscle. I was surprised the bike was able to support his weight.



I've mentioned before the acquaintance who decided to get into cycling because his new, young wife loved it. This completely unathletic guy in his upper 60s bought "the best" that the bike shop had, which was expensive indeed. Of course, it was all carbon, super-close clearance, gee-whiz wheels, racing gears, and a handlebar so low he could never be close to comfortable on that bike. Sure, it was a nice bike - but totally unsuited to anything the guy would ever attempt to do. AFAIK, he's never put even 25 miles on that machine. (end quote)

Frank, you are an old sourpuss.

Do you have any happy stories about people who bought bikes that suited their purposes, and rode off into the future, content?

I mean, who cares about some fat guy in 1978, and maybe that second old out-of-shape guy rides his young wife more than his new bike, and he just doesn't have the time and energy to waste with a bicycle when he's got better and more important business to tend to. Who cares? No, really! Maybe they're happy, did you ever pause to consider that possibility? In spite of that awful bike you don't like hanging up somewhere in their abode?

For every one of your old sour stories I could post hundreds of examples from commuters, transportation riders, hipsters, "tourists", day-riders, weekend warriors-- including lots of women, and I know you know about the good work the ACA does with newbies and "civilian" bikers and, especially, getting the girls and ladies out and enjoying their bicycles. There are all kinds of riders I see around here including national-class racers and indeed Tour de France winners (at least two have graced our streets here). Wow, there they are, out riding, and by no means are they all riding "racer bikes". Maybe many of these folks know more than you think and/or are willing to admit? Possible?
--D-y

wrote:
On Thursday, August 2, 2012 1:05:54 PM UTC-5, wrote:



And yet it happens. The first national (LAW) bike convention I went to was in 1978. There was a guy there with a contemporary super-light bike, bragging about how few grams were in each component - Huret Jubilee derailleur, silk tubulars, etc. etc. Thing was, the guy weighed well over 250 pounds, and very little of it was muscle. I was surprised the bike was able to support his weight.



I've mentioned before the acquaintance who decided to get into cycling because his new, young wife loved it. This completely unathletic guy in his upper 60s bought "the best" that the bike shop had, which was expensive indeed. Of course, it was all carbon, super-close clearance, gee-whiz wheels, racing gears, and a handlebar so low he could never be close to comfortable on that bike. Sure, it was a nice bike - but totally unsuited to anything the guy would ever attempt to do. AFAIK, he's never put even 25 miles on that machine. (end quote)

Frank, you are an old sourpuss.

Do you have any happy stories about people who bought bikes that suited their purposes, and rode off into the future, content?

I mean, who cares about some fat guy in 1978, and maybe that second old out-of-shape guy rides his young wife more than his new bike, and he just doesn't have the time and energy to waste with a bicycle when he's got better and more important business to tend to. Who cares? No, really! Maybe they're happy, did you ever pause to consider that possibility? In spite of that awful bike you don't like hanging up somewhere in their abode?

For every one of your old sour stories I could post hundreds of examples from commuters, transportation riders, hipsters, "tourists", day-riders, weekend warriors-- including lots of women, and I know you know about the good work the ACA does with newbies and "civilian" bikers and, especially, getting the girls and ladies out and enjoying their bicycles. There are all kinds of riders I see around here including national-class racers and indeed Tour de France winners (at least two have graced our streets here). Wow, there they are, out riding, and by no means are they all riding "racer bikes". Maybe many of these folks know more than you think and/or are willing to admit? Possible?

Whe someone says buying a super-bike for slow cruising would be silly,
you think I should not mention people who buy super bikes for slow cruising?

Of _course_ I can list hundreds of stories about happy people on bikes
that they like. That's what bicycling usually is. But if I say "Did
another club ride. Everybody had a great time," people would still find
ways to complain (about a boring post, if nothing else). And if I dared
say "Nobody crashed and got head injured. Several people showed up
using toe clips..." there are people here who would rapidly sling abuse.

Cripe, look what happened to me when I said that I successfully and
happily ride with toe clips and flat shoes.

--
- Frank Krygowski

James wrote:
On 03/08/12 09:45, AMuzi wrote:

PouPou in Mercier Purple was as tough a man as any:

http://www.ridenice.se/Poulidor_file...%20resized.jpg


Frank is probably pointing and laughing right now!

Once again, James, you've got things precisely backwards. I'm the guy
who repeatedly has written "I don't care what you wear, including purple
riding shorts."

I have no problem with purple.

Nor do I. Some of us laughed a little when one of our friends showed up
in pink riding shorts, but we rode with him, and still do. Wear what
you want.

--
- Frank Krygowski