What is the case with belt drive?

On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:09:22 -0700 (PDT), Chalo
wrote:

AMuzi wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:

JennyB wrote:

Unless, perhaps, you have an old elevated stay frame.

Er, what is "an old elevated stay frame"?

au courant in 1992:http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/files/snc13468_122.jpg
[picture of Yeti Ultimate]

There were also Mantis, Haro, Nishiki, Redline, Alpinestars... surely
I'm forgetting some others?

Chalo

Dera Chalo,

Surely!

The 1885 Antelope, sadly beaten out by Starley's Rover:
http://i35.tinypic.com/21ke7uf.jpg

Ditto the 1885 BSA:
http://utopiaparkway.com/ba/images/bicycles/4.jpg

And the 1885 Pioneer:
http://tinyurl.com/ylgg9ur

Browse down from the BSA in Sharp for examples of more conventional
early cross-frames:
http://tinyurl.com/yjokvg9

A nice left-hand drive Ivel:
http://www.oldroads.com/pqdb_img.asp...&mod=&mak=Ivel

An 1887 Victor cross-frame with half-heart front suspension:
http://www.copakeauction.com/bicycle...cycles/239.jpg

Even Starley strayed from the Rover and its incipient double-diamond
frame (no seat tube) and tried the cross-frame with the 1887 Psycho:
http://americanhistory.si.edu/ONTHEM...dia/xl/625.jpg
http://americanhistory.si.edu/ONTHEM...bject_288.html

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

On 20 Oct, 01:35, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article ,
*Andrew Price wrote:

On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 22:21:21 GMT, Ryan Cousineau
wrote:

[---]

As the owner of Alfine-8 and a Sturmey-Archer bikes, I'd point out 'hubs
are heavy, expensive, and adjustment is fussy. The S-A, in particular,
will repay any mis-adjustment with intermittent freewheeling, a
surprisingly dangerous failure mode.

I knew about the SA problem, but is the Alfine-8 really so difficult
to adjust, say, compared with a bog-standard Nexus hub?

It's identical in most ways to a Nexus-8, and I assume that includes
adjustment.

The adjustment of a Shimano 8-speed is probably easier than most
derailer setups. On the other hand, there's the little dance you have to
do if you need to change the rear tire. Protip: practice releasing and
replacing the shifter cable and home. You will thank me for that advice
after your first flat tire.

Before using racing wheels with quick relase bolts, I always repaired
tubes in place, on the bike. The only difficulty was when using drop
handlebars and full mudguards. To get at the rear tyre I would either
lay the bike down or flip it over. Flipping it over would kink the
brake wires on a drop handlebar bike. The alternative was to sit on
the ground with the bike over my legs. Brake cables got kinked.
Punctures come with the rain. I would leave tyre replacement (at wear
through) to a bike shop, mostly. I don't today have that same trust I
once had. It seems all the old boys have retired in my locality. The
modern shop has little continuity when it is not proprieter run.


I'm not sour on gearhubs as a matter of course. Of course! I actually
have, um, four gearhubs, though one is part of an unassembled pile, and
one is a Sachs Duomatic, which admittedly has the easiest shifting
adjustment possible (none).

I just wanted to apply some needed tonic to the debate. Derailers are
popular for a reason, and hub gears have their issues.

--
Ryan Cousineau /
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

(snip)
RonSonic wrote:
The tendency to discover a neutral gear when you stand up and stomp on the
pedals had a terrible, horrible negative synergy with the relatively tall gears
that were native to the species. Used to be almost impossible to find anything
other than the 19t cog for them. Even with a 34 (like there was a chainwheel
that small back in the day) you're going to have to get out of the saddle to go
up stuff with that. Probably what kept them off the first few generations of
mountain bikes and those set the pattern for the breed.

Mark wrote:
A typical Raleigh Sports had 44x18 gears, which was definitely on the
high side, unless you liked pedaling at 50 rpm. I didn't start riding
such beasts until about 15 years ago, and by then one could easily
change the gearing using single cassette sprockets. I usually set
mine up with either 22 or 23-T.

RonSonic wrote:
TBH, I'm not up to speed with what the present owners, SR are doing so they may
have fixed this stuff. But the old AW serieshad problems off road.

Mark wrote:
SunRace has indeed revised the hub and it no longer has the "dead
zone". I have two bikes with the new AW 3-speed with coaster brake,
and while you still need to be accurate with the cable tension at
least you know that you won't go flying if it's not perfect.

As for the Nexus hub, I've said before that I really don't like its in-
board cable attachment, but that's because I use this hub on my winter
bike and that whole area just gets so crudded up. I'd prefer to use
the old Sachs 7-speed hub that mounts outside of the stay, but a) the
shifter is only available as a twist-grip (which I dislike with big
winter mitts) and b) the cable needs to run in continuous housing,
which I also do not like for winter use (I'm of the "little housing as
possible" school).

I'd like to know if anyone has tried the new S-A 8-speed...

Classic Raleigh Sports, Ltd and Superbe are 46 x 18, giving
49.8, 66.4, 88.4.

Regarding the new SA-8, look at the gear ratios before
buying; cute but not for everyone.
http://www.sturmey-archer.com/hubs_8spd_XRF8.php
(scroll down in the box on the left)

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

RonSonic wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:21:59 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

(snip)
RonSonic wrote:
The tendency to discover a neutral gear when you stand up and stomp on the
pedals had a terrible, horrible negative synergy with the relatively tall gears
that were native to the species. Used to be almost impossible to find anything
other than the 19t cog for them. Even with a 34 (like there was a chainwheel
that small back in the day) you're going to have to get out of the saddle to go
up stuff with that. Probably what kept them off the first few generations of
mountain bikes and those set the pattern for the breed.
Mark wrote:
A typical Raleigh Sports had 44x18 gears, which was definitely on the
high side, unless you liked pedaling at 50 rpm. I didn't start riding
such beasts until about 15 years ago, and by then one could easily
change the gearing using single cassette sprockets. I usually set
mine up with either 22 or 23-T.
RonSonic wrote:
TBH, I'm not up to speed with what the present owners, SR are doing so they may
have fixed this stuff. But the old AW serieshad problems off road.
Mark wrote:
SunRace has indeed revised the hub and it no longer has the "dead
zone". I have two bikes with the new AW 3-speed with coaster brake,
and while you still need to be accurate with the cable tension at
least you know that you won't go flying if it's not perfect.

As for the Nexus hub, I've said before that I really don't like its in-
board cable attachment, but that's because I use this hub on my winter
bike and that whole area just gets so crudded up. I'd prefer to use
the old Sachs 7-speed hub that mounts outside of the stay, but a) the
shifter is only available as a twist-grip (which I dislike with big
winter mitts) and b) the cable needs to run in continuous housing,
which I also do not like for winter use (I'm of the "little housing as
possible" school).

I'd like to know if anyone has tried the new S-A 8-speed...
Classic Raleigh Sports, Ltd and Superbe are 46 x 18, giving
49.8, 66.4, 88.4.

Regarding the new SA-8, look at the gear ratios before
buying; cute but not for everyone.
http://www.sturmey-archer.com/hubs_8spd_XRF8.php
(scroll down in the box on the left)

What is the point of that? Here are the ratios.

• Overall Range - 305%
• Gear 1 - 1.00 (Direct Drive)
• Gear 2 - 1.28 (+28%)
• Gear 3 - 1.45 (+45%)
• Gear 4 - 1.64 (+64%)
• Gear 5 - 1.86 (+86%)
• Gear 6 - 2.10 (+110%)
• Gear 7 - 2.38 (+138%)
• Gear 8 - 3.05 (+205%)

What are they thinking, cargo bikes?
Not with 28 spoke holes!?
I'm confused. Maybe 20" folders?

Don't know but they aren't going to displace the tough SRAM
Seven at any rate:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/S7RATIO.JPG

Sturmey also still promises their new fixed three which will
absolutely positively ship in spring of 2006. Not.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Jobst Brandt wrote:
[...]
Nice to see they believe in low spoke count with an 8-peed 28 spoke
hub. Why not paired spoking as well. That has even less merit.

Hey, I have a 20-spoke front wheel on my upright bicycle!

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007

Jobst Brandt wrote:
[...]
Nice to see they believe in low spoke count with an 8-peed 28 spoke
hub. Why not paired spoking as well. That has even less merit.

Tom Sherman °_° wrote:
Hey, I have a 20-spoke front wheel on my upright bicycle!

8 speed rear wheel might be safer
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/squirrel.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Andrew Muzi wrote:
Jobst Brandt wrote:
[...]
Nice to see they believe in low spoke count with an 8-peed 28 spoke
hub. Why not paired spoking as well. That has even less merit.

Tom Sherman °_° wrote:
Hey, I have a 20-spoke front wheel on my upright bicycle!

8 speed rear wheel might be safer
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/squirrel.jpg

Are you saying you sold me an unsafe wheel?

OK, so it is an ISO-305 [1] on my DaHon Curve, so it would still be hard
for a squirrel to fit through.

[1] About the same spoke hole spacing as a 40-hole ISO 622-mm rim.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007

In article ,
RonSonic wrote:

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:21:59 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

(snip)
RonSonic wrote:
The tendency to discover a neutral gear when you stand up and stomp on
the
pedals had a terrible, horrible negative synergy with the relatively tall
gears
that were native to the species. Used to be almost impossible to find
anything
other than the 19t cog for them. Even with a 34 (like there was a
chainwheel
that small back in the day) you're going to have to get out of the saddle
to go
up stuff with that. Probably what kept them off the first few generations
of
mountain bikes and those set the pattern for the breed.

Mark wrote:
A typical Raleigh Sports had 44x18 gears, which was definitely on the
high side, unless you liked pedaling at 50 rpm. I didn't start riding
such beasts until about 15 years ago, and by then one could easily
change the gearing using single cassette sprockets. I usually set
mine up with either 22 or 23-T.

RonSonic wrote:
TBH, I'm not up to speed with what the present owners, SR are doing so
they may
have fixed this stuff. But the old AW serieshad problems off road.

Mark wrote:
SunRace has indeed revised the hub and it no longer has the "dead
zone". I have two bikes with the new AW 3-speed with coaster brake,
and while you still need to be accurate with the cable tension at
least you know that you won't go flying if it's not perfect.

As for the Nexus hub, I've said before that I really don't like its in-
board cable attachment, but that's because I use this hub on my winter
bike and that whole area just gets so crudded up. I'd prefer to use
the old Sachs 7-speed hub that mounts outside of the stay, but a) the
shifter is only available as a twist-grip (which I dislike with big
winter mitts) and b) the cable needs to run in continuous housing,
which I also do not like for winter use (I'm of the "little housing as
possible" school).

I'd like to know if anyone has tried the new S-A 8-speed...

Classic Raleigh Sports, Ltd and Superbe are 46 x 18, giving
49.8, 66.4, 88.4.

Regarding the new SA-8, look at the gear ratios before
buying; cute but not for everyone.
http://www.sturmey-archer.com/hubs_8spd_XRF8.php
(scroll down in the box on the left)

What is the point of that? Here are the ratios.

• Overall Range - 305%
• Gear 1 - 1.00 (Direct Drive)
• Gear 2 - 1.28 (+28%)
• Gear 3 - 1.45 (+45%)
• Gear 4 - 1.64 (+64%)
• Gear 5 - 1.86 (+86%)
• Gear 6 - 2.10 (+110%)
• Gear 7 - 2.38 (+138%)
• Gear 8 - 3.05 (+205%)

What are they thinking, cargo bikes?

Not with 28 spoke holes!?

I'm confused. Maybe 20" folders?

Well, whatever they were thinking, 20" folders and other small-wheeled
bikes are the natural territory of the S-A 8.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

AMuzi wrote:

RonSonic wrote:

What is the point of that? Here are the ratios.

• Overall Range - 305%
• Gear 1 - 1.00 (Direct Drive)
• Gear 2 - 1.28 (+28%)
• Gear 3 - 1.45 (+45%)
• Gear 4 - 1.64 (+64%)
• Gear 5 - 1.86 (+86%)
• Gear 6 - 2.10 (+110%)
• Gear 7 - 2.38 (+138%)
• Gear 8 - 3.05 (+205%)

What are they thinking, cargo bikes?
Not with 28 spoke holes!?
I'm confused. Maybe 20" folders?

Don't know but they aren't going to displace the tough SRAM
Seven at any rate:http://www.yellowjersey.org/S7RATIO.JPG

I am told SRAM has decided to abandon the North American gearhub
market to its competitors.

Sturmey also still promises their new fixed three which will
absolutely positively ship in spring of 2006. Not.

Boy, it's kinda late to board that train now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3TZmQhxjps

Chalo

Jobst Brandt wrote:

http://www.sturmey-archer.com/hubs_8spd_XRF8.php
(scroll down in the box on the left)

Nice to see they believe in low spoke count with an 8-peed 28 spoke
hub. *Why not paired spoking as well. *That has even less merit.

The strongest 16" rim available has only 28 holes. Coincidence?

Chalo