You must be joking!

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&feed=rss.news
as if the cyclists were at fault when the dep hit them..

"Dan Gregory" wrote in message
...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&feed=rss.news
as if the cyclists were at fault when the dep hit them..

No one has suggested that cyclists Kristy Gough, 30, of San Leandro and Matt
Peterson, 29, of San Francisco who were killed in the March 9 accident on
Stevens Canyon Road in Cupertino, were at fault. Evans, the triathlon
coach who regularly trains riders in the hills of San Mateo County and was
Gough's coach, said it is often the serious athletic bikers who take the
most risks. He said he sees whole clubs of riders zipping through stop signs
and failing to slow down. You get these guys who think they are Lance
Armstrong or something, then they turn around and get themselves killed,"
Evans said.

= in other words, no one is suggesting, except the author of that article.


Male cyclists were almost five times more likely to be killed or severely
injured than women. Fatalities and severe injury accidents affected all age
groups, but riders in their 30s and 40s faired worse than others. Most
common fatalities were 48-year-old males.

= I am guessing, but probably the population of cyclists is around 5x male
to female



"The advocates say large numbers of cyclists fail to follow the rules of the
road, running stop signs and red lights, and drivers are becoming more
aggressive. ", and "Yet even the most staunch cycling advocates acknowledge
that some cyclists give others a bad name by failing to obey traffic laws.
When I see a rider run a red light, I cringe," Shahum said. "Not only is it
totally unsafe, it makes me and all other cyclists look bad."

= What I see here in Denver is that it's the weekend warriors and "Ride the
Rockies" geeks that are far more likely to run red lights, etc. Cyclists
who ride alot know that a couple minutes stopped at a light does not matter.


Bicycling advocates said the statistics might in part reflect a bias among
police officers, who they say often "blame the victims," especially because
cyclists might not get to tell their side of the story as they are being
carried off on stretchers.

= when I was run over 7 years ago, incredibly, I was ticketed for not using
a light on my bicycle ( I was run over in the afternoon ) I was never asked
what happened. Also, it is significant that both the driver and the cop are
Latino. In court, I was aquitted when the cop admitted under oath that she
had changed the time of the accident to after sunset in order to give me the
ticket instead of the driver. Later, the driver lost his license for his
second time, the second time for running me over.

"xzzy" wrote in message
. ..

= when I was run over 7 years ago, incredibly, I was ticketed for not
using a light on my bicycle ( I was run over in the afternoon ) I was
never asked what happened. Also, it is significant that both the driver
and the cop are Latino. In court, I was aquitted when the cop admitted
under oath that she had changed the time of the accident to after sunset
in order to give me the ticket instead of the driver. Later, the driver
lost his license for his second time, the second time for running me over.

I got hit head on by a nurse who was clearly on the wrong side of the road,
entirely in my lane as she came around the blind corner. I was launched like
a guided missile over her car some 30 feet, but luckily I prepared myself at
the last second for what I knew was going to be a flight to hell. I got my
shoes unlocked and clear from the pedals just in time and landed in the soft
dirt. That's what saved me, not even wearing a helmet, just a cycling cap
that day since it was supposed to be just a short ride close to home. The
nurse who hit was clearly upset, when she saw I didn't get up right away,
not because I was injured, but because she was losing time, looking at her
watch and thinking out loud a bit.



She called her hubby on her cell phone who was a local Sheriff about what
she would do, legal implications, nothing to do with an ambulance. As a
nurse, she never once attended to my needs, but instead continued to talk
about the legal implications with her hubby since she knew she was in the
wrong lane. Well, the Sheriff called his buddy the CHP who first came on the
scene. Then the threesome went into a conference about what her options
might be and what the legal problems might be since she was clearly in my
lane. All the while, no one really seems concerned about my injuries.
Finally the CHP asked me if I needed an Ambulance, and the threesome
continued to chat and sweat what their problems might be over this, never
mind that I got hit by some nurse driving on the wrong side of the road, and
I lost because the laws of physics are not too kind when a car meets a
bicycle. I was lucky enough to have minor injuries, and I could of sued in
court, but I didn't. Their insurance company was very quick to try and
smooth this over by covering the cost of repairs to my MB bike.



But this just reminds me again, that in an every increasing population, and
with more cars on the road every year, bicycles have less space. Drivers
always seem to be in too big a hurry, and life is increasing becoming
cheaper and cheaper everyday. People just don't seem to be recognizant of
other people as human beings. We all share this planet together, but what
still persists, and this seems like a problem that goes back to the days of
the Roman Empire, is that people still act incredibly crazy behind the wheel
of a car, even doctors, lawyers, people who otherwise normally are well
mannered. That sense of empowerment behind the wheel of a car, road rage,
etc, is the scariest thing to me as a cyclist. Getting run off the road,
getting flipped off, seems to be part and parcel of the culture of cars
versus cyclists, not always, but the mentality of someone behind the wheel
of a car, is much different then someone riding a bike. People driving cars
often act like two years old, thinking, you get out of my way, or I wil
knock you out of the way!



Here in the United States, they don't have the cultural identity or respect
for cyclists like they do in say Holland, where everyone rides bikes. Over
there its quite natural to ride an old bike carrying groceries from the
store, but if you do that here, people think you are too poor to afford a
car, and that you must be a bum. Here in the states they might knock you
over spilling your groceries and laugh because they think its funny, as
where in Holland they would just think its just somebody getting some grub
for family dinner. No taboo for riding an old bike in Holland, but here the
car is the status symbol, and bikes are generally only looked up to if they
are an 12k racing bike. That mentality should change. Also, there is
probably much less the hostilities between cars and bikes in Holland, and
probably no need culturally speaking for something like Critical Mass, since
they already get it. Over here, we just don't get it, and I don't think we
will ever get it, since the Government gives tax breaks to people who buy
Hummers. The Government should be giving breaks to people who ride bikes!



GBMT

Dan Gregory wrote:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&feed=rss.news

as if the cyclists were at fault when the dep hit them..


--------------

The Chronicle's analysis of the 33,000 Bay Area collisions involving
bicyclists since 1997 shows that, in the most serious accidents, the
driving behaviors of bicyclists often were blamed for the crashes. Data
collected by the California Highway Patrol show that bicyclists were
deemed at fault in 1,165, or nearly 60 percent, of the 1,997 accidents
that killed or severely injured cyclists; drivers were blamed only 520
times, or 26 percent. In most other cases, no one was listed as being at
fault.


---------------

Okay, let me point out the problem here before you people in here get
your panties all wet for no reason.

This study cites "bicyclists" which is a generic term that includes
little 5 year olds as well as 56 year old immigrants riding their bike
back from washing dishes at the diner at night on the wrong way down the
street.

So even if the results of this study were to be accurate (and who
exactly determined the cyclist was definitely at fault anyway?), this
has NOTHING to do with the rate of injury or the compliance with traffic
laws with respect to RACING cyclists or EXPERIENCED cyclists (i.e.
former racers, triathletes, etc.).

You people are misinterpeting this study to be about people like us when
in fact it's a statistic that is mainly about novice cyclists, children
cyclists, and drunk immigrant cyclists on their way back from the diner.

The author somehow tried to link these statistics to meaning it applies
to serious "Bay Area" cyclists when in fact it doesn't.

I would venture to guess that the rate of accidennts and at-fault
incidents attributed to experienced cyclists is likely to be extremely
low and comprises only a fraction of that study.

It's a shame that not only do I have to come in here and clean the
clocks of people in this group, but now I have to do it to the reporters
at the Chronicle too.

One day a meteor will hit the Earth and knock some sense into you.


Magilla

Dan Gregory wrote:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&feed=rss.news

as if the cyclists were at fault when the dep hit them..


---------------
"According to the data, when drivers were at fault in an accident, the
most common type of violation cited was not giving cyclists the right of
way. For bike riders, unsafe speed was the most dangerous violation,
followed by riding on the wrong side of the road."
---------------

Given the fact that the lowest speed limit on most roads is 25 mph and
most in the 35 mph range, and given the fact that in 95% of the time,
most EXPERIENCED/RACER cyclists are rarely going over 25 and 95% of the
time going well below 35, I don't see how this study has any credibility.

And since it applies to novice cyclists annd children, when the **** do
they go above the speed limit?

This study is obviously flawed and is probably based on some asshole
cops' opinions that a cyclist crashed because they 'couldn't slow down
in time' to stop for the lady who swings her door open in the road or
because some minivan mom lady made a left turn in front of a cyclist
'she couldn't see' coming in the opposite direction 'too fast' who
otherwise had the right of way and was not even going above the speed limit.

This entire study is probably a sack of crap, but the reporter is too
superficial to even know it.

Also, "unsafe speed" for a 5 year old might be 12 mph whereas an
experienced cyclist is fine on that same road at 30 mph. I don't see
how the study differentiates between the two.

Certainly the pencil-pusher reporter did not.

**** the San Francisco Chronicle.


Magilla

On Mar 23, 5:28*pm, MagillaGorilla wrote:
Dan Gregory wrote:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...3/22/MNU3VOB22....

as if the cyclists were at fault when the dep hit them..

--------------

The Chronicle's analysis of the 33,000 Bay Area collisions involving
bicyclists since 1997 shows that, in the most serious accidents, the
driving behaviors of bicyclists often were blamed for the crashes. Data
collected by the California Highway Patrol show that bicyclists were
deemed at fault in 1,165, or nearly 60 percent, of the 1,997 accidents
that killed or severely injured cyclists; drivers were blamed only 520
times, or 26 percent. In most other cases, no one was listed as being at
fault.

---------------

Okay, let me point out the problem here before you people in here get
your panties all wet for no reason.

This study cites "bicyclists" which is a generic term that includes
little 5 year olds as well as 56 year old immigrants riding their bike
back from washing dishes at the diner at night on the wrong way down the
street.

So even if the results of this study were to be accurate (and who
exactly determined the cyclist was definitely at fault anyway?), this
has NOTHING to do with the rate of injury or the compliance with traffic
laws with respect to RACING cyclists or EXPERIENCED cyclists (i.e.
former racers, triathletes, etc.).

You people are misinterpeting this study to be about people like us when
in fact it's a statistic that is mainly about novice cyclists, children
cyclists, and drunk immigrant cyclists on their way back from the diner.

The author somehow tried to link these statistics to meaning it applies
to serious "Bay Area" cyclists when in fact it doesn't.

I would venture to guess that the rate of accidennts and at-fault
incidents attributed to experienced cyclists is likely to be extremely
low and comprises only a fraction of that study.

It's a shame that not only do I have to come in here and clean the
clocks of people in this group, but now I have to do it to the reporters
at the Chronicle too.

One day a meteor will hit the Earth and knock some sense into you.

Magilla

I'll say.

I'd rather blow through lights and stop signs at 25mph with even a
semi-exerienced group of racer wannabes than tag along with a wino on
a late night run for some 8 ball at 4mph

Joseph.

"MagillaGorilla" wrote in message
...

Okay, let me point out the problem here before you people in here get your
panties all wet for no reason.

This study cites "bicyclists" which is a generic term that includes little
5 year olds as well as 56 year old immigrants riding their bike back from
washing dishes at the diner at night on the wrong way down the street.

Too bad you haven't a single clue about what you're supposedly discussing.

MagillaGorilla" : your understanding of this is correct.

please read magilla's reply, I believe on the money except;

please keep in mind that many people lurk rbr to check the pulse of things
and the tone of these words at the end of your reply do not help. The
following words should instead define a solution to the problem.

It's a shame that not only do I have to come in here and clean the clocks
of people in this group, but now I have to do it to the reporters at the
Chronicle too.

One day a meteor will hit the Earth and knock some sense into you.

No one's clocks need to be cleaned, no meteor is necessary, just better
presentation of cycling to everyone.

Every cyclist on earth teaches what is a cyclist to everyone. Anyone who
has a child knows that what is being said and what is heard may be
different. Cyclists must always be good teachers.



"MagillaGorilla" wrote in message
...
Dan Gregory wrote:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&feed=rss.news
as if the cyclists were at fault when the dep hit them..


--------------

The Chronicle's analysis of the 33,000 Bay Area collisions involving
bicyclists since 1997 shows that, in the most serious accidents, the
driving behaviors of bicyclists often were blamed for the crashes. Data
collected by the California Highway Patrol show that bicyclists were
deemed at fault in 1,165, or nearly 60 percent, of the 1,997 accidents
that killed or severely injured cyclists; drivers were blamed only 520
times, or 26 percent. In most other cases, no one was listed as being at
fault.


---------------

Okay, let me point out the problem here before you people in here get your
panties all wet for no reason.

This study cites "bicyclists" which is a generic term that includes little
5 year olds as well as 56 year old immigrants riding their bike back from
washing dishes at the diner at night on the wrong way down the street.

So even if the results of this study were to be accurate (and who exactly
determined the cyclist was definitely at fault anyway?), this has NOTHING
to do with the rate of injury or the compliance with traffic laws with
respect to RACING cyclists or EXPERIENCED cyclists (i.e. former racers,
triathletes, etc.).

You people are misinterpeting this study to be about people like us when
in fact it's a statistic that is mainly about novice cyclists, children
cyclists, and drunk immigrant cyclists on their way back from the diner.

The author somehow tried to link these statistics to meaning it applies to
serious "Bay Area" cyclists when in fact it doesn't.

I would venture to guess that the rate of accidennts and at-fault
incidents attributed to experienced cyclists is likely to be extremely low
and comprises only a fraction of that study.

It's a shame that not only do I have to come in here and clean the clocks
of people in this group, but now I have to do it to the reporters at the
Chronicle too.

One day a meteor will hit the Earth and knock some sense into you.


Magilla

pathetic:

I'd rather blow through lights and stop signs at 25mph with even a
semi-exerienced group of racer wannabes than tag along with a wino on
a late night run for some 8 ball at 4mph

Joseph.

Too bad you haven't a single clue about what you're supposedly discussing.

Too bad you haven't a single clue . . . .