Self Driving Vehicles

I was saying that I didn't think that self driving vehicles would work.

Last night I was dreaming as I often do, that I was given a project to design one. I again was fighting it all the way. Then I analyzed it and it would require only three subsystems (though pretty complex) to make a self driving vehicle that would be more efficient and more accurate than a human driver of high quality and probably 5 times better than the average driver.

As it turns out, the reaction time of an automobile has to do with its weight and traction so those are pretty slow functions and so computer control could easily make that connection. The weight vs traction of a vehicle limits its deceleration speed whereas the traction is limited by the surface and tire interface. I don't know what they've done to "anti-lock brake systems" but they certainly do not work at optimal efficiency like they did back in the late 90's and early 2000's. At that time they would lock the tires and then release pressure if the wheels ceased turning. Now they don't allow you to lock the brakes.

The way I drive I always believe that if someone can do something really stupid they will. So I always think of drivers passing you in the right lane when you're trying to pull over to make the next turn and things like that. Or kids running out from behind a parked car.

Well, that means that I often drive even slower than the speed limit because of those kinds of rare but very real events. But no one else does anymore.. Everyone is 10 mph over the limit at the very least. So self driving cars would easily be made so much safer than these drivers that it would be a snap.

The subsystems could be made in such a manner that they could fit any car under any conditions from a minicars up to heavy truck transports. The configurations would have to be set in such a manner that it could be safely encoded. So safely that it would require military grade encryption to configure the components so that there could never be any worries about a truck believing it could stop in the distance of a car and that sort of thing.

Looks to me like I could develop it pretty fast with a GOOD group of perhaps 12 or so programmers and a couple of electronics engineers that are merely developing already used detectors more specifically for the purpose.

So I was wrong about self driving vehicles simply because of my own driving practices. I have to take my wife down for another radiation treatment and I can absolutely guarantee you that as I enter the freeway someone driving over the speed limit will be in the slow lane and not move over to allow me to merge smoothly. Maybe the whole world drives like Jay.

Best wishes with your wife's treatments, Tom.

On 12/22/2019 3:20 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
I was saying that I didn't think that self driving vehicles would work.

Last night I was dreaming as I often do, that I was given a project to design one. I again was fighting it all the way. Then I analyzed it and it would require only three subsystems (though pretty complex) to make a self driving vehicle that would be more efficient and more accurate than a human driver of high quality and probably 5 times better than the average driver.

As it turns out, the reaction time of an automobile has to do with its weight and traction so those are pretty slow functions and so computer control could easily make that connection. The weight vs traction of a vehicle limits its deceleration speed whereas the traction is limited by the surface and tire interface. I don't know what they've done to "anti-lock brake systems" but they certainly do not work at optimal efficiency like they did back in the late 90's and early 2000's. At that time they would lock the tires and then release pressure if the wheels ceased turning. Now they don't allow you to lock the brakes.

The way I drive I always believe that if someone can do something really stupid they will. So I always think of drivers passing you in the right lane when you're trying to pull over to make the next turn and things like that. Or kids running out from behind a parked car.

Well, that means that I often drive even slower than the speed limit because of those kinds of rare but very real events. But no one else does anymore. Everyone is 10 mph over the limit at the very least. So self driving cars would easily be made so much safer than these drivers that it would be a snap.

The subsystems could be made in such a manner that they could fit any car under any conditions from a minicars up to heavy truck transports. The configurations would have to be set in such a manner that it could be safely encoded. So safely that it would require military grade encryption to configure the components so that there could never be any worries about a truck believing it could stop in the distance of a car and that sort of thing.

Looks to me like I could develop it pretty fast with a GOOD group of perhaps 12 or so programmers and a couple of electronics engineers that are merely developing already used detectors more specifically for the purpose.

So I was wrong about self driving vehicles simply because of my own driving practices. I have to take my wife down for another radiation treatment and I can absolutely guarantee you that as I enter the freeway someone driving over the speed limit will be in the slow lane and not move over to allow me to merge smoothly. Maybe the whole world drives like Jay.


'drives like Jay'
??
Do you mean no heel-and-toe cornering with his broken ankle?

My employee has a modern 8 speed electronic gearbox with
paddle shifters and can sling that thing around better than
I can manage a four speed. I'm not sure a broken ankle is
relevant to performance driving any more.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, December 22, 2019 at 2:02:29 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/22/2019 3:20 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
I was saying that I didn't think that self driving vehicles would work.

Last night I was dreaming as I often do, that I was given a project to design one. I again was fighting it all the way. Then I analyzed it and it would require only three subsystems (though pretty complex) to make a self driving vehicle that would be more efficient and more accurate than a human driver of high quality and probably 5 times better than the average driver..

As it turns out, the reaction time of an automobile has to do with its weight and traction so those are pretty slow functions and so computer control could easily make that connection. The weight vs traction of a vehicle limits its deceleration speed whereas the traction is limited by the surface and tire interface. I don't know what they've done to "anti-lock brake systems" but they certainly do not work at optimal efficiency like they did back in the late 90's and early 2000's. At that time they would lock the tires and then release pressure if the wheels ceased turning. Now they don't allow you to lock the brakes.

The way I drive I always believe that if someone can do something really stupid they will. So I always think of drivers passing you in the right lane when you're trying to pull over to make the next turn and things like that. Or kids running out from behind a parked car.

Well, that means that I often drive even slower than the speed limit because of those kinds of rare but very real events. But no one else does anymore. Everyone is 10 mph over the limit at the very least. So self driving cars would easily be made so much safer than these drivers that it would be a snap.

The subsystems could be made in such a manner that they could fit any car under any conditions from a minicars up to heavy truck transports. The configurations would have to be set in such a manner that it could be safely encoded. So safely that it would require military grade encryption to configure the components so that there could never be any worries about a truck believing it could stop in the distance of a car and that sort of thing.

Looks to me like I could develop it pretty fast with a GOOD group of perhaps 12 or so programmers and a couple of electronics engineers that are merely developing already used detectors more specifically for the purpose.

So I was wrong about self driving vehicles simply because of my own driving practices. I have to take my wife down for another radiation treatment and I can absolutely guarantee you that as I enter the freeway someone driving over the speed limit will be in the slow lane and not move over to allow me to merge smoothly. Maybe the whole world drives like Jay.


'drives like Jay'
??
Do you mean no heel-and-toe cornering with his broken ankle?

My employee has a modern 8 speed electronic gearbox with
paddle shifters and can sling that thing around better than
I can manage a four speed. I'm not sure a broken ankle is
relevant to performance driving any more.

The ankles are O.K., but my night vision sucks. I'm now that nervous old guy at night, but apart from that, I do know to accelerate onto the highway and understand that I need to merge with through traffic and not vice versa.. If they are going 70mph, I better step on it.

And not to miss an opportunity to reminisce, that was a huge issue with my Drivers Ed teacher a million years ago. When we were learning to get onto HWY 17 (now 880) just south of T.K.-ville, the teacher would yell "step on it!" I remember him screaming at this one girl in my car who was barely hitting 40mph on the on-ramp. I'd been driving illegal for years with my Dad, so for me it was old hat. I also remember as a kid the first time I hit third gear in the VW bug with my dad. Damn! I was going like 35mph. Sagan could out sprint me.

Bicycle content: F*** cars! I was channeling Chalo today on a ride on our woefully inadequate old farm roads that now service sprawling suburban McManson developments. I was on this narrow arterial dodging all the aholes in Canyoneros pouring out of this suburban mega-church. I guess God told them to go out and flatten a cyclist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w4P6vD5goc Merry Christmas . . . splat. It's the most dang-er-ous time of the year (sing it!).

-- Jay Beattie.

On 2019-12-22 14:43, jbeattie wrote:

[...]


Bicycle content: F*** cars! I was channeling Chalo today on a ride on
our woefully inadequate old farm roads that now service sprawling
suburban McManson developments. I was on this narrow arterial
dodging all the aholes in Canyoneros pouring out of this suburban
mega-church. I guess God told them to go out and flatten a cyclist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w4P6vD5goc Merry Christmas . . .
splat. It's the most dang-er-ous time of the year (sing it!).


Get a pedal-powered Canyonero :-)

https://top10bestpro.com/wp-content/...Gift-Ideas.jpg

https://d3h6k4kfl8m9p0.cloudfront.ne...9ZWkAZjfg.jpeg

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Sunday, December 22, 2019 at 2:43:11 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 22, 2019 at 2:02:29 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/22/2019 3:20 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
I was saying that I didn't think that self driving vehicles would work.

Last night I was dreaming as I often do, that I was given a project to design one. I again was fighting it all the way. Then I analyzed it and it would require only three subsystems (though pretty complex) to make a self driving vehicle that would be more efficient and more accurate than a human driver of high quality and probably 5 times better than the average driver.

As it turns out, the reaction time of an automobile has to do with its weight and traction so those are pretty slow functions and so computer control could easily make that connection. The weight vs traction of a vehicle limits its deceleration speed whereas the traction is limited by the surface and tire interface. I don't know what they've done to "anti-lock brake systems" but they certainly do not work at optimal efficiency like they did back in the late 90's and early 2000's. At that time they would lock the tires and then release pressure if the wheels ceased turning. Now they don't allow you to lock the brakes.

The way I drive I always believe that if someone can do something really stupid they will. So I always think of drivers passing you in the right lane when you're trying to pull over to make the next turn and things like that. Or kids running out from behind a parked car.

Well, that means that I often drive even slower than the speed limit because of those kinds of rare but very real events. But no one else does anymore. Everyone is 10 mph over the limit at the very least. So self driving cars would easily be made so much safer than these drivers that it would be a snap.

The subsystems could be made in such a manner that they could fit any car under any conditions from a minicars up to heavy truck transports. The configurations would have to be set in such a manner that it could be safely encoded. So safely that it would require military grade encryption to configure the components so that there could never be any worries about a truck believing it could stop in the distance of a car and that sort of thing.

Looks to me like I could develop it pretty fast with a GOOD group of perhaps 12 or so programmers and a couple of electronics engineers that are merely developing already used detectors more specifically for the purpose..

So I was wrong about self driving vehicles simply because of my own driving practices. I have to take my wife down for another radiation treatment and I can absolutely guarantee you that as I enter the freeway someone driving over the speed limit will be in the slow lane and not move over to allow me to merge smoothly. Maybe the whole world drives like Jay.


'drives like Jay'
??
Do you mean no heel-and-toe cornering with his broken ankle?

My employee has a modern 8 speed electronic gearbox with
paddle shifters and can sling that thing around better than
I can manage a four speed. I'm not sure a broken ankle is
relevant to performance driving any more.

The ankles are O.K., but my night vision sucks. I'm now that nervous old guy at night, but apart from that, I do know to accelerate onto the highway and understand that I need to merge with through traffic and not vice versa. If they are going 70mph, I better step on it.

And not to miss an opportunity to reminisce, that was a huge issue with my Drivers Ed teacher a million years ago. When we were learning to get onto HWY 17 (now 880) just south of T.K.-ville, the teacher would yell "step on it!" I remember him screaming at this one girl in my car who was barely hitting 40mph on the on-ramp. I'd been driving illegal for years with my Dad, so for me it was old hat. I also remember as a kid the first time I hit third gear in the VW bug with my dad. Damn! I was going like 35mph. Sagan could out sprint me.

Bicycle content: F*** cars! I was channeling Chalo today on a ride on our woefully inadequate old farm roads that now service sprawling suburban McManson developments. I was on this narrow arterial dodging all the aholes in Canyoneros pouring out of this suburban mega-church. I guess God told them to go out and flatten a cyclist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w4P6vD5goc Merry Christmas . . . splat. It's the most dang-er-ous time of the year (sing it!).

-- Jay Beattie.

Just like4 I promised a guy was going WELL over the speed limit as I entered the freeway but he was a little way back. To show his displeasure with someone slowing his progress he pulled up on my rear bumper, swung violently over into the completely open lane #4 and cut in so violently in front of me that he almost lost control. California drivers alright. A quarter of a mile ahead traffic slowed for and exit as he pulled over into the #2 lane.

Coming back I was on an exit into which two freeways feed so you have to be extremely careful to pull into the far right lanes because cars exiting from the other freeway exit at least at freeway speed and usually pull all the way over into the far left lane. Sure enough one of those large boxy vans came off that fast and had to stand on his brakes. I had to come to a stop and the idiot pickup truck behind me who was exiting at freeway speed had to slow down before continuing. He laid on the horn for a full minute as I got clearance and went over to the right.

On 12/22/2019 5:43 PM, jbeattie wrote:

Bicycle content: F*** cars! I was channeling Chalo today on a ride on our woefully inadequate old farm roads that now service sprawling suburban McManson developments.

Those are the worst.

I was on this narrow arterial dodging all the aholes in Canyoneros pouring out of this suburban mega-church. I guess God told them to go out and flatten a cyclist.

Many years ago, I was riding my bike to our church, on a two lane highway.

About a block from the church, a guy came flying down his driveway in
reverse, headed toward me. I yelled loudly and he stopped, but then he
began to tailgate me impatiently. So I moved even further into the lane
and slowed to about 12 mph. "Let him stew," I thought.

I turned into the church's parking lot, and so did he. Apparently, he
was rushing to get to church on time.

I locked my bike as he parked his car. We entered almost simultaneously,
him just ahead of me. I took a seat at the left, he took one at the
right. Neither of us said anything, and I don't know who he is. (It's a
pretty big parish.)

I figure kindness on the roads would be a good practical sermon. In
fact, a parish could devote an entire year to that theme.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, 22 December 2019 20:05:40 UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/22/2019 5:43 PM, jbeattie wrote:

Bicycle content: F*** cars! I was channeling Chalo today on a ride on our woefully inadequate old farm roads that now service sprawling suburban McManson developments.

Those are the worst.

I was on this narrow arterial dodging all the aholes in Canyoneros pouring out of this suburban mega-church. I guess God told them to go out and flatten a cyclist.

Many years ago, I was riding my bike to our church, on a two lane highway.

About a block from the church, a guy came flying down his driveway in
reverse, headed toward me. I yelled loudly and he stopped, but then he
began to tailgate me impatiently. So I moved even further into the lane
and slowed to about 12 mph. "Let him stew," I thought.

I turned into the church's parking lot, and so did he. Apparently, he
was rushing to get to church on time.

I locked my bike as he parked his car. We entered almost simultaneously,
him just ahead of me. I took a seat at the left, he took one at the
right. Neither of us said anything, and I don't know who he is. (It's a
pretty big parish.)

I figure kindness on the roads would be a good practical sermon. In
fact, a parish could devote an entire year to that theme.


--
- Frank Krygowski

You're lucky he didn't get road rage and run you over and then claim he didn't see you.

I can see moving more into the lanr but deliberately slowing down just to **** the guy off is just asking for an escalation.

Cheers

Tom Kunich wrote:
I was saying that I didn't think that self driving vehicles would work.

Are you talking about self-driving bicycles
or why are you posting this here?

[since it is off-topic here I won't post a reply about the
object recognition problems....]

--
Note: please read the netiquette before posting. I will almost never
reply to top-postings which include a full copy of the previous
article(s) at the end because it's annoying, shows that the poster
is too lazy to trim his article, and it's wasting the time of all readers.

On Monday, 23 December 2019 00:46:23 UTC-5, Claus Aßmann wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
I was saying that I didn't think that self driving vehicles would work.

Are you talking about self-driving bicycles
or why are you posting this here?

[since it is off-topic here I won't post a reply about the
object recognition problems....]

--
Note: please read the netiquette before posting. I will almost never
reply to top-postings which include a full copy of the previous
article(s) at the end because it's annoying, shows that the poster
is too lazy to trim his article, and it's wasting the time of all readers..

Good grief! This is supposed to be a BICYCLING TECH newsgroup and thus I'd estimate that currently 90% to 95% of the threads here are off-topic. Of the threads that start life as on-topic most are soon hijacked to off-topic. Some call it Topic drift but when a topic gets changed to something totally unrelated to the topic then it's a hijack.

Cheers