Cartridge bottom brackets

On Fri, 07 Apr 2017 20:14:12 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/7/2017 7:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 7 Apr 2017 08:04:59 -0700 (PDT), Robert Liebermann
wrote:

I recommend the Tange LN-3922 BB. Made in Japan (unlike Shimanos),
high quality, almost suspiciously cheap, good looking, and comes in many
widths. I've got it on several bikes; I used to buy Phils for my fanciest
bikes, but I like this one better at 1/5 the cost!

:-) Are you sure about the made in Japan thing? I find the following
addresses for Tange Seiki :-)

TANGE SEIKI CO., LTD
1-26, Kurumano-cho Nishi, Sakai-ku
Sakai, Osaka, Japan 590-0940
TEL:+81-72-224-9990
FAX:+81-72-224-9991

TANGE SEIKI TAICHUNG CO.,LTD.
NO.18, Gongyegu 10th Rd., Xitun Dist., Taichung City
40755, Taiwan (R.O.C.)
TEL:+886-4-2358-0100
FAX:+886-4-2358-0669

TANGE SEIKI SHENZHEN CO.,LTD.
No. 141, Yin Tai Rd., Daiang St, Baoan Dist., Shenzhen,
Guangdong, China
TEL:+86-755-27742140
FAX:+86-755-27708372

It's not Tange's only product.

Blue box BB with natural aluminum cups & white box with
steel cups are both marked 'Made in Japan' as are the
Tange-IRD units. (I assume o.e.m. versions would be made
closer to actual bicycle factories.)

The Tange family seems to have a lot of branches, of which Seiki is
nly one. I believe that Tange bicycle frame tubes are/were rather an
up-market product.

The corporate addresses I posted show a common corporate practice for
Japanese firms. First get started in the home land, then when salaries
and other costs of business rise move to Taiwan and then to more
countries with lower costs of doing business. Shimano, for example,
has plants in Singapore, Malaysia and at least two sites in main land
China.

Minimum salary in Japan is in the US$7.40/hour range and in China it
is approximately US$13.00/day.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 07 Apr 2017 15:57:46 +0700, John B.
wrote:


I'm thinking of replacing the old three piece BB on one of my bikes
with a Shimano cartridge bearing and I see that Shimano markets a
UN-26 and UN-55 cartridge bottom bracket. I believe that the UN-26
has a solid spindle and a plastic bushing on the non-drive side while
there is reference to a hollow spindle and steel bushing on the UN-55.
Both are made for the 69 and 73 mm frames and in roughly the same
spindle lengths.

In normal use is there a practical difference? Disregarding the weight
difference, if any, is there a noticeable difference in service life?

The UN-26 seems to be the cheaper version and is quite common in shops
here while the UN-55 is somewhat rare, probably due to price. But if
the UN-55 lasts (for example) five years while the UN-26 only lasts
two years it is probably worth searching out the higher priced
version.

Shimano cartridge bearing BB's seem to last forever. Haven't had one
fail yet. And somehow the dirt just doesn't seem to get in. Can't
think of how long its been since on had to be replaced.

I use the cheapest ones I can find, too.

On 4/8/2017 2:51 AM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 07 Apr 2017 20:14:12 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/7/2017 7:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 7 Apr 2017 08:04:59 -0700 (PDT), Robert Liebermann
wrote:

I recommend the Tange LN-3922 BB. Made in Japan (unlike Shimanos),
high quality, almost suspiciously cheap, good looking, and comes in many
widths. I've got it on several bikes; I used to buy Phils for my fanciest
bikes, but I like this one better at 1/5 the cost!

:-) Are you sure about the made in Japan thing? I find the following
addresses for Tange Seiki :-)

TANGE SEIKI CO., LTD
1-26, Kurumano-cho Nishi, Sakai-ku
Sakai, Osaka, Japan 590-0940
TEL:+81-72-224-9990
FAX:+81-72-224-9991

TANGE SEIKI TAICHUNG CO.,LTD.
NO.18, Gongyegu 10th Rd., Xitun Dist., Taichung City
40755, Taiwan (R.O.C.)
TEL:+886-4-2358-0100
FAX:+886-4-2358-0669

TANGE SEIKI SHENZHEN CO.,LTD.
No. 141, Yin Tai Rd., Daiang St, Baoan Dist., Shenzhen,
Guangdong, China
TEL:+86-755-27742140
FAX:+86-755-27708372

It's not Tange's only product.

Blue box BB with natural aluminum cups & white box with
steel cups are both marked 'Made in Japan' as are the
Tange-IRD units. (I assume o.e.m. versions would be made
closer to actual bicycle factories.)

The Tange family seems to have a lot of branches, of which Seiki is
nly one. I believe that Tange bicycle frame tubes are/were rather an
up-market product.

The corporate addresses I posted show a common corporate practice for
Japanese firms. First get started in the home land, then when salaries
and other costs of business rise move to Taiwan and then to more
countries with lower costs of doing business. Shimano, for example,
has plants in Singapore, Malaysia and at least two sites in main land
China.

Minimum salary in Japan is in the US$7.40/hour range and in China it
is approximately US$13.00/day.
--
Cheers,

John B.


Sorry that's not right.
Tange is not an unusual Japanese name. Tange Seiki is
unrelated to Tange Inc. They're both in the Kansai (Osaka)
area but the similarity ends there.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I have both the UN-26 and the UN-55 from Shimano. In Shimano-speak higher numbers mean better, more expensive. But actual price may not be all that much different, depending on what whichever component-pusher I'm shopping bought several container loads of most recently. My -55 for instance, was cheaper than the 26 listed at the same time. Neither was worn out when replaced for other reasons. Neither is serviceable, despite the implication of "cartridge", so I don't know how you would be able to tell if the bearings in the -55 are actually better, short of wearing it out, which is in fact pretty unlikely with a modern BB. In any event you generally have to take what you can get in the axle length you want.

A bottom bracket with a big rep in Europe, and a sub-Shimano price, is the Czech-made Kinex (a buck or two over a tenner, amazing) which I also had on my bikes and found no fault with (these give you a choice between steel, ali and plastic cups, if that matters to you; the designers of my most expensive bike apparently believe the minuscule flex in the plastic in worth having...). Not as pretty as the Shimano but who cares when the whole thing is hidden in the bottom bracket shell? Quite a few more expensively-branded bottom brackets under the fancy dress are in fact this Kinex, including at least one range of Stronglight.

Andre Jute
No boutique components, thank you

On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 9:57:50 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing the old three piece BB on one of my bikes
with a Shimano cartridge bearing and I see that Shimano markets a
UN-26 and UN-55 cartridge bottom bracket. I believe that the UN-26
has a solid spindle and a plastic bushing on the non-drive side while
there is reference to a hollow spindle and steel bushing on the UN-55.
Both are made for the 69 and 73 mm frames and in roughly the same
spindle lengths.

In normal use is there a practical difference? Disregarding the weight
difference, if any, is there a noticeable difference in service life?

The UN-26 seems to be the cheaper version and is quite common in shops
here while the UN-55 is somewhat rare, probably due to price. But if
the UN-55 lasts (for example) five years while the UN-26 only lasts
two years it is probably worth searching out the higher priced
version.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 1:57:50 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing the old three piece BB on one of my bikes
with a Shimano cartridge bearing and I see that Shimano markets a
UN-26 and UN-55 cartridge bottom bracket. I believe that the UN-26
has a solid spindle and a plastic bushing on the non-drive side while
there is reference to a hollow spindle and steel bushing on the UN-55.
Both are made for the 69 and 73 mm frames and in roughly the same
spindle lengths.

In normal use is there a practical difference? Disregarding the weight
difference, if any, is there a noticeable difference in service life?

The UN-26 seems to be the cheaper version and is quite common in shops
here while the UN-55 is somewhat rare, probably due to price. But if
the UN-55 lasts (for example) five years while the UN-26 only lasts
two years it is probably worth searching out the higher priced
version.
--
Cheers,

John B.

I have never worn out a bottom bracket or a headset. And I don't maintain them all that well. Pulling them out every couple of years, cleaning and greasing them where necessary is all that I have done. I put so many miles on components (except this year dammit) that if there was any particular weakness in these parts I would have spotted it.

On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 1:43:44 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Snipped

I have never worn out a bottom bracket or a headset. And I don't maintain them all that well. Pulling them out every couple of years, cleaning and greasing them where necessary is all that I have done. I put so many miles on components (except this year dammit) that if there was any particular weakness in these parts I would have spotted it.

Last year a friend got me to come to his place to fix a loose bottom bracket on a bicycle he was given. It was a Shimano cartridge one that I forget the # of but it was very unusual in thatthe spindle had snapped at the shoulder on the left side. I meant to get a picture of the broken parts but he chucked it before i returned later with the camera. I've never heard or seen another cartridge bottom bracket with a broken spindle.

Cheers

On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 10:48:45 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 1:43:44 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Snipped

I have never worn out a bottom bracket or a headset. And I don't maintain them all that well. Pulling them out every couple of years, cleaning and greasing them where necessary is all that I have done. I put so many miles on components (except this year dammit) that if there was any particular weakness in these parts I would have spotted it.

Last year a friend got me to come to his place to fix a loose bottom bracket on a bicycle he was given. It was a Shimano cartridge one that I forget the # of but it was very unusual in thatthe spindle had snapped at the shoulder on the left side. I meant to get a picture of the broken parts but he chucked it before i returned later with the camera. I've never heard or seen another cartridge bottom bracket with a broken spindle.

Cheers

We have to remember that wear and manufacturing errors is something altogether different.

On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 2:04:42 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 10:48:45 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 1:43:44 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Snipped

I have never worn out a bottom bracket or a headset. And I don't maintain them all that well. Pulling them out every couple of years, cleaning and greasing them where necessary is all that I have done. I put so many miles on components (except this year dammit) that if there was any particular weakness in these parts I would have spotted it.

Last year a friend got me to come to his place to fix a loose bottom bracket on a bicycle he was given. It was a Shimano cartridge one that I forget the # of but it was very unusual in thatthe spindle had snapped at the shoulder on the left side. I meant to get a picture of the broken parts but he chucked it before i returned later with the camera. I've never heard or seen another cartridge bottom bracket with a broken spindle.

Cheers

We have to remember that wear and manufacturing errors is something altogether different.

That is true. However I do wish I'd been able to get images of the broken parts as it would have been interesting to discover how and why it broke. like i said, I've never seen or heard of another square taper cartridge bottom braket spindle breaking..

Cheers

On 4/8/2017 12:27 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 2:04:42 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 10:48:45 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 1:43:44 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Snipped

I have never worn out a bottom bracket or a headset. And I don't maintain them all that well. Pulling them out every couple of years, cleaning and greasing them where necessary is all that I have done. I put so many miles on components (except this year dammit) that if there was any particular weakness in these parts I would have spotted it.

Last year a friend got me to come to his place to fix a loose bottom bracket on a bicycle he was given. It was a Shimano cartridge one that I forget the # of but it was very unusual in thatthe spindle had snapped at the shoulder on the left side. I meant to get a picture of the broken parts but he chucked it before i returned later with the camera. I've never heard or seen another cartridge bottom bracket with a broken spindle.

Cheers

We have to remember that wear and manufacturing errors is something altogether different.

That is true. However I do wish I'd been able to get images of the broken parts as it would have been interesting to discover how and why it broke. like i said, I've never seen or heard of another square taper cartridge bottom braket spindle breaking..

I think that when square-taper spindles dominated the market, spindle
breakages were common enough.

I broke one at the taper/round junction, just outboard of the bearing
surface, on my tandem (~1990). It didn't separate completely, just
"peeled" partway in a spiral. The effect was of the crank suddenly
tilting so that it gyrated as we pedaled.

I think Jobst wrote that this was the common failure location/mode.

I kept the spindle as a souvenir.

Here is a pardo.net photo collection of similar failures, none quite
like mine: http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/0...ttom%20Bracket

As square-taper spindles become rarer, so will these failures.

Mark J.

On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 1:57:50 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
I'm thinking of replacing the old three piece BB on one of my bikes
with a Shimano cartridge bearing and I see that Shimano markets a
UN-26 and UN-55 cartridge bottom bracket. I believe that the UN-26
has a solid spindle and a plastic bushing on the non-drive side while
there is reference to a hollow spindle and steel bushing on the UN-55.
Both are made for the 69 and 73 mm frames and in roughly the same
spindle lengths.

In normal use is there a practical difference? Disregarding the weight
difference, if any, is there a noticeable difference in service life?

The UN-26 seems to be the cheaper version and is quite common in shops
here while the UN-55 is somewhat rare, probably due to price. But if
the UN-55 lasts (for example) five years while the UN-26 only lasts
two years it is probably worth searching out the higher priced
version.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Yes, Tange's base of operations is in Taiwan. They then use cheap Chinese manufacturing for many of their mundane components. They also made some top of the line steel bicycle frame tubing for serious classics of the past, including bikes like my '92 Schwinn Paramount.
Do not buy from Tange. They are now EVIL.
Tange tried to steal my design back in 2012, costing me six figures in additional costs to bring Oculus to market compared to the licensing deal that Merry Sales signed, then broke when I rejected Tange's cheap crap unauthorized design changes. Tange and Merry Sales intended to do a cheap crap version of my light that would make them a quick buck, then the crap quality would leave me over and done with nothing left to show for it.
So Tange and Merry Sales can rot in hell, but definitely do _Not buy Tange.
Do go with Phil Wood bearings. The Best, for BB's, hubs, anywhere else on the bike.