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Replacing a lost toolkit



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 17th 19, 05:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Replacing a lost toolkit

On 8/16/2019 6:35 PM, bob prohaska wrote:

snip

That looks like a workable option and not very different from the bag that
went missing. I'd prefer to buy from a LBS if the cost penalty isn't too
outrageous.


I had decided to stop moving seat bags between each bicycle since each
one has different needs (size of patches, tube size, etc.) and have a
seat bag for each bicycle. So I wasn't going to spend $30 for a seat
pack x 5.
Ads
  #22  
Old August 17th 19, 05:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
bob prohaska
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Posts: 102
Default Replacing a lost toolkit

AMuzi wrote:
Single speed chain and classic 4, 5, 6, 7 speed chain rivets
are easily removed and re set[1].

Mine is a six-speed cog set on a freewheel (the bike is an AA serial
Cannondale). There's no obvious incentive to change to anything more
modern unless the archaic style parts become unavailable. Is there some
other benefit to consider? I'm surely no performance rider 8-)

Eight, 9, 10, 11, 12 speed chain has rivets flush with the
outer plate face, the plates are thinner and harder, and
the fit between rivet and plate is tighter.


Sounds like a real stinker to re-assemble.
If I'm reading right you're saying the rivets are straight and
_not_ peened to a head, just like the old type. Is this correct?

Setting a rivet
not only takes more push but the rivet must be exactly
centered and uniform. Prior efforts included tapered-guide
replacement rivets before even the the most notable victim
of "We Didn't Invent That" disease capitulated to the
superior snaplink.

If I get a "modern" chain tool will it work acceptably on an
older-style chain? Hopefully I'll be carrying it as a public service
rather than for my own use, but it'd have to work on my bike too.

With modern two-pivot-spring changers, wrap the chain around
largest front and rear sprockets, add 2 rivets ( or three,
as needed, to end with a complete link) then pass it through
your changers and join it. Older lower-spring-only changers
usually want more chain, as much as you can add without
excessive sag in small-small, although various setups do vary.



The derailleur is marked "Shimano Deore XT", which I gather
is lower-end. It feels like it has two springs, however. Am
I kidding myself? It's certainly not original, I bought it
after the OEM derailleur jammed the chain and broke, ~1990.

Thanks very much for posting!

bob prohaska

  #23  
Old August 17th 19, 10:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Replacing a lost toolkit

On 8/17/2019 9:57 AM, bob prohaska wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
Single speed chain and classic 4, 5, 6, 7 speed chain rivets
are easily removed and re set[1].

Mine is a six-speed cog set on a freewheel (the bike is an AA serial
Cannondale). There's no obvious incentive to change to anything more
modern unless the archaic style parts become unavailable. Is there some
other benefit to consider? I'm surely no performance rider 8-)


snip

The 10, 11, and 12 cog freewheels are because of the desire to go from a
triple crankset to a dual crankset while retaining a comparable range of
gears. It's not easy to find a new bike, other than department store
bikes, with triple cranksets.
https://road.cc/content/feature/221157-death-triple-chainset. A dual
crankset with a wider range cassette is cheaper to manufacture and
simpler. You often need a longer chain, 118 links, even up to 122 links,
if you want to be able to do large-large with a wide range cassette,
i.e. 11-52. The old days of 14-34 for a touring bike are long gone when
you have only a dual crankset.
  #24  
Old August 17th 19, 11:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
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Posts: 1,747
Default Replacing a lost toolkit

bob prohaska writes:

The seat bag toolkit went missing on my bike after 30-odd years.
Unfortunately, I noticed only after getting a flat tire 8 miles
from home. As penance for my inattention I elected to walk, despite
half a dozen offers of help from other riders and one motorist. The
exercise is one I'm not eager to repeat 8-)

Beyond the obvious (tire levers, patch kit and spare tube) what have
folks found worth carrying to fend off routine trouble? My kit
acquired quite a bit more, including a chain tool, spoke wrench and
freewheel tool, along with hex keys. I don't think any of the first
three have ever been useful on the road, but they don't weigh much
and they're far easier to find if they're on the bike. Has anybody
ever had use for them, or other "shop" tools, on the road?

Suggestions for a seat bag would also be welcome. For the moment
I'll put the tools and spares in the pannier baskets, but that's
dangerous as they can be removed and forgotten. Much better to have
necessities permanently living on the bike.


In my case: pocket knife, mosquito repellent sachets, small pliers (4"
channel lock), folding money ($5 wrapped around the spare tube), shower
cap to put on the saddle when bike is left in the rain, a few feet of so
of nylon cord, Park mt-1. I think I'll throw a lighter in there, just to be
completely boy scout.

There is also have a small chain tool and spoke wrench, but I don't
recall ever havng used them.
  #25  
Old August 17th 19, 11:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Replacing a lost toolkit

On Saturday, August 17, 2019 at 11:03:39 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-16 16:12, bob prohaska wrote:
The seat bag toolkit went missing on my bike after 30-odd years.
Unfortunately, I noticed only after getting a flat tire 8 miles
from home. As penance for my inattention I elected to walk, despite
half a dozen offers of help from other riders and one motorist. The
exercise is one I'm not eager to repeat 8-)

Beyond the obvious (tire levers, patch kit and spare tube) what have
folks found worth carrying to fend off routine trouble? My kit
acquired quite a bit more, including a chain tool, spoke wrench and
freewheel tool, along with hex keys. I don't think any of the first
three have ever been useful on the road, but they don't weigh much
and they're far easier to find if they're on the bike. Has anybody
ever had use for them, or other "shop" tools, on the road?


Mine can be summed up in one word, Crankbrothers M19.

https://www.crankbrothers.com/products/m19

It weighs a bit much for most riders but mine sure has helped a lot or
other riders out of a pickle. Last time was Thursday. Strangely I
haven't needed it for myself yet. The other tools such as wood pieces
and rocks for hammering, nature provides.


Suggestions for a seat bag would also be welcome. For the moment
I'll put the tools and spares in the pannier baskets, but that's
dangerous as they can be removed and forgotten. Much better to have
necessities permanently living on the bike.


Seat bags slosh around too much. I carry the tools in a small "butt
pack" which rides along in the right pannier. That pack also carries my
wallet, keys, phone and stuff. If going into a pub or shop I can whip it
out and strap it around my waist.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


I have a number of different seat bags and none of them "slosh around". I find the seat bag quite useful and love the fact that I don't have to have a rear rack and pannier in order to carry my repair kit. YMVFEE*

Cheers

*Your Mileage Varies From Everyone Else's
  #26  
Old August 17th 19, 11:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Replacing a lost toolkit

On Saturday, August 17, 2019 at 5:10:49 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 8/17/2019 9:57 AM, bob prohaska wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
Single speed chain and classic 4, 5, 6, 7 speed chain rivets
are easily removed and re set[1].

Mine is a six-speed cog set on a freewheel (the bike is an AA serial
Cannondale). There's no obvious incentive to change to anything more
modern unless the archaic style parts become unavailable. Is there some
other benefit to consider? I'm surely no performance rider 8-)


snip

The 10, 11, and 12 cog freewheels are because of the desire to go from a
triple crankset to a dual crankset while retaining a comparable range of
gears. It's not easy to find a new bike, other than department store
bikes, with triple cranksets.
https://road.cc/content/feature/221157-death-triple-chainset. A dual
crankset with a wider range cassette is cheaper to manufacture and
simpler. You often need a longer chain, 118 links, even up to 122 links,
if you want to be able to do large-large with a wide range cassette,
i.e. 11-52. The old days of 14-34 for a touring bike are long gone when
you have only a dual crankset.


I have yet to see any 10, 11, 0r 12 cogs FREEWHEELS. I thought those cogsets were only available for CASSETTES. LOL ;)

Cheers
  #27  
Old August 17th 19, 11:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Replacing a lost toolkit

On Saturday, August 17, 2019 at 12:57:23 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
Single speed chain and classic 4, 5, 6, 7 speed chain rivets
are easily removed and re set[1].

Mine is a six-speed cog set on a freewheel (the bike is an AA serial
Cannondale). There's no obvious incentive to change to anything more
modern unless the archaic style parts become unavailable. Is there some
other benefit to consider? I'm surely no performance rider 8-)

Eight, 9, 10, 11, 12 speed chain has rivets flush with the
outer plate face, the plates are thinner and harder, and
the fit between rivet and plate is tighter.


Sounds like a real stinker to re-assemble.
If I'm reading right you're saying the rivets are straight and
_not_ peened to a head, just like the old type. Is this correct?

Setting a rivet
not only takes more push but the rivet must be exactly
centered and uniform. Prior efforts included tapered-guide
replacement rivets before even the the most notable victim
of "We Didn't Invent That" disease capitulated to the
superior snaplink.

If I get a "modern" chain tool will it work acceptably on an
older-style chain? Hopefully I'll be carrying it as a public service
rather than for my own use, but it'd have to work on my bike too.

With modern two-pivot-spring changers, wrap the chain around
largest front and rear sprockets, add 2 rivets ( or three,
as needed, to end with a complete link) then pass it through
your changers and join it. Older lower-spring-only changers
usually want more chain, as much as you can add without
excessive sag in small-small, although various setups do vary.



The derailleur is marked "Shimano Deore XT", which I gather
is lower-end. It feels like it has two springs, however. Am
I kidding myself? It's certainly not original, I bought it
after the OEM derailleur jammed the chain and broke, ~1990.

Thanks very much for posting!

bob prohaska


Does your smallest cog screw on to your hub body? Or is your 6-speed a freewheel?

To reassemble a modern chain you do NOT use a chain tool, you use a quick-link.

Yes, a modern chain tool will work on an older 6-speed system.

Deore was pretty high in Shimano's hierarchy of touring groups.

I too believe in not replacing vintage stuff that works just for the sake of changing it. That's why when I had the chance at a little out of the way bike shop a few years ago to buy a number of New Old Stock Uniglide cassettes (the ones where the smallest cog screws onto the freehub) I did so because they were only $10.00 per cassette.

Cheers
  #29  
Old August 18th 19, 02:44 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Replacing a lost toolkit

On Saturday, August 17, 2019 at 5:54:22 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/17/2019 2:57 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, August 17, 2019 at 3:01:47 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:


Actually, the one weird tool I wish I had once was the pre-load cap tool for a Shimano Hollotech crank when my son got massive chain suck and jammed the chain between the stay and the ring. It was really, really stuck, and I was going to pull the crank. I tried to back out the cap with a screw driver and just munged it up. I eventually got the chain loose, but not without marring the stay.


Did you loosen the pinch bolts first? It is standard procedure for a friend of mine who put a triple crankset on a frame not suitable for that. As a result he drops the chain regurarly between the small ring and bottom bracket and gets really stuck.


Could he use one of these?
https://www.rei.com/product/670913/t...-chain-watcher

It's worked well on our tandem for a long time.

--
- Frank Krygowski


It wasn't a dropped chain -- the bike comes OE with a chain watcher. It was chain suck where the chain hangs on to the small ring. https://tinyurl.com/y3tbw5ct When Ruckus did the repairs, it put in a plate on the stay. They did an amazing repair. Not cheap, but worth it. And groan, someone smarter than me figured out how to get the preload cap off with a multi-tool, although that's not my tool. https://anonadventure.files.wordpres...297.jpg?w=1568 The OE 105 crank has a pretty shallow cap, and I don't know if that would have worked, but its an interesting idea.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #30  
Old August 18th 19, 03:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Replacing a lost toolkit

On Friday, August 16, 2019 at 7:49:44 PM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, August 16, 2019 at 7:12:57 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska wrote:
The seat bag toolkit went missing on my bike after 30-odd years.
Unfortunately, I noticed only after getting a flat tire 8 miles
from home. As penance for my inattention I elected to walk, despite
half a dozen offers of help from other riders and one motorist. The
exercise is one I'm not eager to repeat 8-)

Beyond the obvious (tire levers, patch kit and spare tube) what have
folks found worth carrying to fend off routine trouble? My kit
acquired quite a bit more, including a chain tool, spoke wrench and
freewheel tool, along with hex keys. I don't think any of the first
three have ever been useful on the road, but they don't weigh much
and they're far easier to find if they're on the bike. Has anybody
ever had use for them, or other "shop" tools, on the road?

Suggestions for a seat bag would also be welcome. For the moment
I'll put the tools and spares in the pannier baskets, but that's
dangerous as they can be removed and forgotten. Much better to have
necessities permanently living on the bike.

Thanks for reading!

bob prohaska


Besides a spare tube and a patch kit with tire levers I have a nice multi-tool that includes a chain tool and spoke wrench. I also have a freewheel removal tool that I only carry if I'm going on a really long ride. I have an old Pocket Rocket tool that holds the freewheel removal tool and can be put onto any round post such as found on a chain-link fence, to use the freewheel tool. You can see images of the tool and how it's used here.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/738325...57710358232441

Cheers


Addendum.

I just looked at some of the ads in my March 1982 BICYCLING magazine and on page 157 see that the thing I called a Pocket Rocket was called a "Pocket Vise". No wonder I couldn't find any images of it on the web. Here's what the blurb in the magazine says about the Pocket Vice.

"We tested the Pocket Vise on a number of freewheels and found it works. We did notice that careless use can mar a stem, and with bikes that have stems that are not fully tightened, the removal of a stubborn freewheel can twist the stem in your head tube. The vice is guaranteed against breakage, and is cast aluminum so that it probably won't.

The Pocket Vise retails for $6, from Cycle Sports, P.O. Box 18937, Seattle, WA, 98118."


It sure is a handy thing to have if you break a spoke on a tour or long ride and you have a spare spoke with you.

In all the years I've had mine it never occurred to me to use it with the stem of my bike as the lever for it.

Cheers.
 




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