much difference on a hill using 26 or 28 cog?

On Friday, October 25, 2019 at 11:33:02 AM UTC-7, Luns Tee wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 10:14:39 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Using Sheldon Brown's Gear Calculator and gear inches I see that a 42 x 28 combination is 40.5 gear inches whilst a 42 x 26 combination is 43.6 gear inches. Is that a very noticeable difference if one is riding uphill?

How about a direct experiment? Assuming your cassettes aren't riveted together (or if they are, assuming you're prepared to grind off rivet heads), leave out one of the smaller sprockets from the 13-26, and assemble the rest, adding your 28, then go for a ride that involves the climbing you're concerned about.

Of course you'll notice the missing sprocket on the flats or descending, but that's not the point of this. Once climbing, limit yourself to the 26 at first and see if find yourself wanting the 28. When you do, see if it really makes a difference for you.

There are of course a bunch of variants of sprocket combinations you could try for this that might not leave as obvious a gap as my initial suggestion - e.g. you could substitute the new 26 for the second largest sprocket (24?) of the 13-28, or some other such.

I think results will vary a lot depending on your fitness relative to the local geography. When I lived in Toronto, I had a 28, and later 30 large sprocket on one bike, but seldom missed it when riding another bike with a 24. Now that I'm older, heavier, and in the SF Bay area where all the good rides of interest involve some amount of climbing, the 24 became a barrier which I addressed by going to a triple crank.


I can say that the spread between a 28t and 30t means about an extra six feet before I stall out on a dirt climb and take the adjacent stairs on one of my commuter trails. Its also where I test tire grip in dirt -- and the speed with which I can exit my SPD pedals before falling into the brambles. Total distance up the hill can be measured by the number of stairs passed, and that has diminished over the years.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 25/10/2019 3:30 p.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, October 25, 2019 at 11:33:02 AM UTC-7, Luns Tee wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 10:14:39 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Using Sheldon Brown's Gear Calculator and gear inches I see that a 42 x 28 combination is 40.5 gear inches whilst a 42 x 26 combination is 43.6 gear inches. Is that a very noticeable difference if one is riding uphill?

How about a direct experiment? Assuming your cassettes aren't riveted together (or if they are, assuming you're prepared to grind off rivet heads), leave out one of the smaller sprockets from the 13-26, and assemble the rest, adding your 28, then go for a ride that involves the climbing you're concerned about.

Of course you'll notice the missing sprocket on the flats or descending, but that's not the point of this. Once climbing, limit yourself to the 26 at first and see if find yourself wanting the 28. When you do, see if it really makes a difference for you.

There are of course a bunch of variants of sprocket combinations you could try for this that might not leave as obvious a gap as my initial suggestion - e.g. you could substitute the new 26 for the second largest sprocket (24?) of the 13-28, or some other such.

I think results will vary a lot depending on your fitness relative to the local geography. When I lived in Toronto, I had a 28, and later 30 large sprocket on one bike, but seldom missed it when riding another bike with a 24. Now that I'm older, heavier, and in the SF Bay area where all the good rides of interest involve some amount of climbing, the 24 became a barrier which I addressed by going to a triple crank.


I can say that the spread between a 28t and 30t means about an extra six feet before I stall out on a dirt climb and take the adjacent stairs on one of my commuter trails. Its also where I test tire grip in dirt -- and the speed with which I can exit my SPD pedals before falling into the brambles. Total distance up the hill can be measured by the number of stairs passed, and that has diminished over the years.

-- Jay Beattie.


I did a race with a 53/39 12-25 with ~1800m and I did the same one with
11-28 and I appreciated the 11-28 on a couple of the steeper grades.
I'm thinking of doing the same race this year with my 52/36 and I expect
that if I get an 11-30 on the back I'll be floating up those hills.

On Friday, 25 October 2019 15:49:58 UTC-4, duane wrote:
On 25/10/2019 3:30 p.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, October 25, 2019 at 11:33:02 AM UTC-7, Luns Tee wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 10:14:39 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Using Sheldon Brown's Gear Calculator and gear inches I see that a 42 x 28 combination is 40.5 gear inches whilst a 42 x 26 combination is 43.6 gear inches. Is that a very noticeable difference if one is riding uphill?

How about a direct experiment? Assuming your cassettes aren't riveted together (or if they are, assuming you're prepared to grind off rivet heads), leave out one of the smaller sprockets from the 13-26, and assemble the rest, adding your 28, then go for a ride that involves the climbing you're concerned about.

Of course you'll notice the missing sprocket on the flats or descending, but that's not the point of this. Once climbing, limit yourself to the 26 at first and see if find yourself wanting the 28. When you do, see if it really makes a difference for you.

There are of course a bunch of variants of sprocket combinations you could try for this that might not leave as obvious a gap as my initial suggestion - e.g. you could substitute the new 26 for the second largest sprocket (24?) of the 13-28, or some other such.

I think results will vary a lot depending on your fitness relative to the local geography. When I lived in Toronto, I had a 28, and later 30 large sprocket on one bike, but seldom missed it when riding another bike with a 24. Now that I'm older, heavier, and in the SF Bay area where all the good rides of interest involve some amount of climbing, the 24 became a barrier which I addressed by going to a triple crank.


I can say that the spread between a 28t and 30t means about an extra six feet before I stall out on a dirt climb and take the adjacent stairs on one of my commuter trails. Its also where I test tire grip in dirt -- and the speed with which I can exit my SPD pedals before falling into the brambles. Total distance up the hill can be measured by the number of stairs passed, and that has diminished over the years.

-- Jay Beattie.


I did a race with a 53/39 12-25 with ~1800m and I did the same one with
11-28 and I appreciated the 11-28 on a couple of the steeper grades.
I'm thinking of doing the same race this year with my 52/36 and I expect
that if I get an 11-30 on the back I'll be floating up those hills.

I see that if I drop the 42 chainring to a 39 and then change the rear cassette from the 28 to the 26 one that I have very nearly the same gearing. I have a 39 chainring here somewhere so I think that's what I'll do.

Cheers

On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 10:14:39 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Okay folks here's something bicycling related.

I have a number of bicycles with freehubs that use UNIGLIDE cassettes. I have one I want to change because the cogs are pretty rusty looking. I have a nice newish 13 - 26 cassette to use instead of the original 13 - 28 cassette.

Using Sheldon Brown's Gear Calculator and gear inches I see that a 42 x 28 combination is 40.5 gear inches whilst a 42 x 26 combination is 43.6 gear inches. Is that a very noticeable difference if one is riding uphill?

NO! I am not changing freehubs or wheels to Hyperglide. I'm ONLY interested in answers discussing the difference between the 26 and 28 cogs.

Cheers

Yes, that is noticeable. But it doesn't take a whole lot of time before you can climb almost anything in it. Before my concussion my normal gearing was a 53-39 and a 12-25. When I put my Pinarello together that's all I had so put that on. I DID NOT like it after using a compact. But I did the local 1,000 climb that had several 12% sections. If I was 40 instead of 74 at the time I could have rapidly gained the muscle to drive it up hills.

On 10/25/2019 4:49 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 25 October 2019 15:49:58 UTC-4, duane wrote:
On 25/10/2019 3:30 p.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, October 25, 2019 at 11:33:02 AM UTC-7, Luns Tee wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 10:14:39 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Using Sheldon Brown's Gear Calculator and gear inches I see that a 42 x 28 combination is 40.5 gear inches whilst a 42 x 26 combination is 43.6 gear inches. Is that a very noticeable difference if one is riding uphill?

How about a direct experiment? Assuming your cassettes aren't riveted together (or if they are, assuming you're prepared to grind off rivet heads), leave out one of the smaller sprockets from the 13-26, and assemble the rest, adding your 28, then go for a ride that involves the climbing you're concerned about.

Of course you'll notice the missing sprocket on the flats or descending, but that's not the point of this. Once climbing, limit yourself to the 26 at first and see if find yourself wanting the 28. When you do, see if it really makes a difference for you.

There are of course a bunch of variants of sprocket combinations you could try for this that might not leave as obvious a gap as my initial suggestion - e.g. you could substitute the new 26 for the second largest sprocket (24?) of the 13-28, or some other such.

I think results will vary a lot depending on your fitness relative to the local geography. When I lived in Toronto, I had a 28, and later 30 large sprocket on one bike, but seldom missed it when riding another bike with a 24. Now that I'm older, heavier, and in the SF Bay area where all the good rides of interest involve some amount of climbing, the 24 became a barrier which I addressed by going to a triple crank.


I can say that the spread between a 28t and 30t means about an extra six feet before I stall out on a dirt climb and take the adjacent stairs on one of my commuter trails. Its also where I test tire grip in dirt -- and the speed with which I can exit my SPD pedals before falling into the brambles. Total distance up the hill can be measured by the number of stairs passed, and that has diminished over the years.

-- Jay Beattie.


I did a race with a 53/39 12-25 with ~1800m and I did the same one with
11-28 and I appreciated the 11-28 on a couple of the steeper grades.
I'm thinking of doing the same race this year with my 52/36 and I expect
that if I get an 11-30 on the back I'll be floating up those hills.

I see that if I drop the 42 chainring to a 39 and then change the rear cassette from the 28 to the 26 one that I have very nearly the same gearing. I have a 39 chainring here somewhere so I think that's what I'll do.

Cheers


Then when you get old there's still that 39 with the 28...

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2019-10-24 22:14, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Okay folks here's something bicycling related.

I have a number of bicycles with freehubs that use UNIGLIDE
cassettes. I have one I want to change because the cogs are pretty
rusty looking. I have a nice newish 13 - 26 cassette to use instead
of the original 13 - 28 cassette.

Using Sheldon Brown's Gear Calculator and gear inches I see that a 42
x 28 combination is 40.5 gear inches whilst a 42 x 26 combination is
43.6 gear inches. Is that a very noticeable difference if one is
riding uphill?

NO! I am not changing freehubs or wheels to Hyperglide. I'm ONLY
interested in answers discussing the difference between the 26 and 28
cogs.


I am with Russell and have to say no, not a big difference. Then again I
over-shift all the time, 3-4 gears at a time, and not just on the MTB.

When UG cassettes became unobtanium and I still had UG freehubs that I
didn't want to throw away I bought HG cassettes and hacked them. I had
to take them apart anyhow so I could mix and match cogs. While at it I
removed the offending section of the wider spline using a Dremel. That
took only a minute or so per cog. Afterwards they fit onto the UG freehub.

This technique can also be helpful when flipping a cog around on an HG
freehub to milk it for a 2nd life, giving up a wee bit in shifting ease.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Friday, 25 October 2019 18:01:10 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/25/2019 4:49 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 25 October 2019 15:49:58 UTC-4, duane wrote:
On 25/10/2019 3:30 p.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, October 25, 2019 at 11:33:02 AM UTC-7, Luns Tee wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 10:14:39 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Using Sheldon Brown's Gear Calculator and gear inches I see that a 42 x 28 combination is 40.5 gear inches whilst a 42 x 26 combination is 43.6 gear inches. Is that a very noticeable difference if one is riding uphill?

How about a direct experiment? Assuming your cassettes aren't riveted together (or if they are, assuming you're prepared to grind off rivet heads), leave out one of the smaller sprockets from the 13-26, and assemble the rest, adding your 28, then go for a ride that involves the climbing you're concerned about.

Of course you'll notice the missing sprocket on the flats or descending, but that's not the point of this. Once climbing, limit yourself to the 26 at first and see if find yourself wanting the 28. When you do, see if it really makes a difference for you.

There are of course a bunch of variants of sprocket combinations you could try for this that might not leave as obvious a gap as my initial suggestion - e.g. you could substitute the new 26 for the second largest sprocket (24?) of the 13-28, or some other such.

I think results will vary a lot depending on your fitness relative to the local geography. When I lived in Toronto, I had a 28, and later 30 large sprocket on one bike, but seldom missed it when riding another bike with a 24. Now that I'm older, heavier, and in the SF Bay area where all the good rides of interest involve some amount of climbing, the 24 became a barrier which I addressed by going to a triple crank.


I can say that the spread between a 28t and 30t means about an extra six feet before I stall out on a dirt climb and take the adjacent stairs on one of my commuter trails. Its also where I test tire grip in dirt -- and the speed with which I can exit my SPD pedals before falling into the brambles. Total distance up the hill can be measured by the number of stairs passed, and that has diminished over the years.

-- Jay Beattie.


I did a race with a 53/39 12-25 with ~1800m and I did the same one with
11-28 and I appreciated the 11-28 on a couple of the steeper grades.
I'm thinking of doing the same race this year with my 52/36 and I expect
that if I get an 11-30 on the back I'll be floating up those hills.

I see that if I drop the 42 chainring to a 39 and then change the rear cassette from the 28 to the 26 one that I have very nearly the same gearing.. I have a 39 chainring here somewhere so I think that's what I'll do.

Cheers


Then when you get old there's still that 39 with the 28...

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

That's what I figured. After all, I'm only 67 years young now. Grandad lived to b well over 100 years of age. In his late 90s he was saving up for his old age.

Cheers

On 2019-10-25 15:44, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 25 October 2019 18:01:10 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/25/2019 4:49 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 25 October 2019 15:49:58 UTC-4, duane wrote:
On 25/10/2019 3:30 p.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, October 25, 2019 at 11:33:02 AM UTC-7, Luns Tee
wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 10:14:39 PM UTC-7, Sir
Ridesalot wrote:
Using Sheldon Brown's Gear Calculator and gear inches I
see that a 42 x 28 combination is 40.5 gear inches whilst
a 42 x 26 combination is 43.6 gear inches. Is that a very
noticeable difference if one is riding uphill?

How about a direct experiment? Assuming your cassettes
aren't riveted together (or if they are, assuming you're
prepared to grind off rivet heads), leave out one of the
smaller sprockets from the 13-26, and assemble the rest,
adding your 28, then go for a ride that involves the
climbing you're concerned about.

Of course you'll notice the missing sprocket on the flats
or descending, but that's not the point of this. Once
climbing, limit yourself to the 26 at first and see if find
yourself wanting the 28. When you do, see if it really
makes a difference for you.

There are of course a bunch of variants of sprocket
combinations you could try for this that might not leave as
obvious a gap as my initial suggestion - e.g. you could
substitute the new 26 for the second largest sprocket (24?)
of the 13-28, or some other such.

I think results will vary a lot depending on your fitness
relative to the local geography. When I lived in Toronto, I
had a 28, and later 30 large sprocket on one bike, but
seldom missed it when riding another bike with a 24. Now
that I'm older, heavier, and in the SF Bay area where all
the good rides of interest involve some amount of climbing,
the 24 became a barrier which I addressed by going to a
triple crank.


I can say that the spread between a 28t and 30t means about
an extra six feet before I stall out on a dirt climb and take
the adjacent stairs on one of my commuter trails. Its also
where I test tire grip in dirt -- and the speed with which I
can exit my SPD pedals before falling into the brambles.
Total distance up the hill can be measured by the number of
stairs passed, and that has diminished over the years.

-- Jay Beattie.


I did a race with a 53/39 12-25 with ~1800m and I did the same
one with 11-28 and I appreciated the 11-28 on a couple of the
steeper grades. I'm thinking of doing the same race this year
with my 52/36 and I expect that if I get an 11-30 on the back
I'll be floating up those hills.

I see that if I drop the 42 chainring to a 39 and then change the
rear cassette from the 28 to the 26 one that I have very nearly
the same gearing. I have a 39 chainring here somewhere so I think
that's what I'll do.

Cheers


Then when you get old there's still that 39 with the 28...


Full confession: I installed a "bail-out" cog so my last step on a hill
is from 32T to a whopping 40T. Woohoo! Front is 42. That gets me up
nearly all hills around here without having to stand in the pedals even
with some load on the bike.


-- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1
April, 1971

That's what I figured. After all, I'm only 67 years young now.
Grandad lived to b well over 100 years of age. In his late 90s he was
saving up for his old age.


My great-grandpa rode off on a neighbor's motorcycle when he was 95.
Scared the heck out of us.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 10:14:39 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Okay folks here's something bicycling related.

I have a number of bicycles with freehubs that use UNIGLIDE cassettes. I have one I want to change because the cogs are pretty rusty looking. I have a nice newish 13 - 26 cassette to use instead of the original 13 - 28 cassette.

Using Sheldon Brown's Gear Calculator and gear inches I see that a 42 x 28 combination is 40.5 gear inches whilst a 42 x 26 combination is 43.6 gear inches. Is that a very noticeable difference if one is riding uphill?

NO! I am not changing freehubs or wheels to Hyperglide. I'm ONLY interested in answers discussing the difference between the 26 and 28 cogs.

Cheers

Only way to see the difference to your own legs and your own riding style is to try it.
To my legs its a big difference. When I was 10 pounds lighter and race-fit, 11-26 (SRAM Red) was my standard cassette for everything.
For the LowKey Hillclimb races, on a hill in the South Bay called Soda Springs, I did my PR with a 50/26 combination, gasping and spent by the finish. Also when I did the Mt. Diablo Challenge in under an hour. In both cases, a 28 would have been much easier and manageable, but slower because I wouldn't have been forced to keep up that higher level of effort all the way up.
Now I think I might blow out a knee or something if I tried it in a 26 again. For the many fewer miles I ride now, switched the road bike to an 11/30 cassette.

On Friday, October 25, 2019 at 4:53:18 PM UTC-7, Oculus Lights wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 10:14:39 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Okay folks here's something bicycling related.

I have a number of bicycles with freehubs that use UNIGLIDE cassettes. I have one I want to change because the cogs are pretty rusty looking. I have a nice newish 13 - 26 cassette to use instead of the original 13 - 28 cassette.

Using Sheldon Brown's Gear Calculator and gear inches I see that a 42 x 28 combination is 40.5 gear inches whilst a 42 x 26 combination is 43.6 gear inches. Is that a very noticeable difference if one is riding uphill?

NO! I am not changing freehubs or wheels to Hyperglide. I'm ONLY interested in answers discussing the difference between the 26 and 28 cogs.

Cheers

Only way to see the difference to your own legs and your own riding style is to try it.
To my legs its a big difference. When I was 10 pounds lighter and race-fit, 11-26 (SRAM Red) was my standard cassette for everything.
For the LowKey Hillclimb races, on a hill in the South Bay called Soda Springs, I did my PR with a 50/26 combination, gasping and spent by the finish. Also when I did the Mt. Diablo Challenge in under an hour. In both cases, a 28 would have been much easier and manageable, but slower because I wouldn't have been forced to keep up that higher level of effort all the way up.
Now I think I might blow out a knee or something if I tried it in a 26 again. For the many fewer miles I ride now, switched the road bike to an 11/30 cassette.

It sucks getting old. Anyway, styles have also changed. Back in the day, us manly men were racing on 13-18 corncobs and had 21t freewheels for the big hills. These days, even pros are riding on mid-compacts with 28t cassettes. Spin is in. Its just a smarter way to ride. People also don't have the same macho attachment to tiny cogs, which is a good thing. In fact, I don't think people even care anymore, although some rodie might say something if you showed up with one of those 50t rear Eagle pie plates. https://www.excelsports.com/assets/gallery/110490-1.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.