Update to "Adding Water Bottle Cages to Bicycles without Braze-Ons" web site

Andre Jute wrote:
On Sep 13, 1:37 am, Kristian M Zoerhoff

wrote:
On 2008-09-12, SMS wrote:

I've gotten a bunch of e-mails lately with suggestions for
products
to include on this site, and I have added them to the web site.

Adding Water Bottle Cages to Bicycles without Braze-Ons
"http://www.nordicgroup.us/cageboss/"

I was trying to help some friends add Minoura BH-95s to their
cruisers last weekend; the plastic sleeve that holds the whole
thing
together cracked when we tightened the bolt down. We returned
them
for some Zefal (?) straps the resemble the Elite VIP WC9115s
listed
on your site (which were the same price as the Minouras).

I don't know those Minoura bottle cage sockets but I have two
Minoura
bar extenders and the entire design for fixing Minoura gear to the
tube is very poor, what with those pieces of metal that get
crumpled
unless you cut and bend them absolutely right the first time, the
difficulty of folding the tongue back in, the virtual
impossibility of
tightening the unit down properly unless you have a helper with
three
hands to hold everything in place, and the certainty that sooner
or
later you will split the plastic by overtightening it fixture. Not
impressed with Minoura.

I agree with Andre about the Minoura bar extenders.

But when I got my new Xootr I ordered the Minoura bottle cage holder
anyway.

It uses the same inadequate apparatus. I have plenty of hose clamps
around here, and I should have just used two of those. Hose clamps
are cheaper, and have a better design.

Mike "Fooled Twice, Shame on Me" Kruger

ZBicyclist aka Mike Kruger wrote:
[...]
But when I got my new Xootr I ordered the Minoura bottle cage holder
anyway.[...]

Folding bicycle or push scooter?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

Tom Sherman wrote:
ZBicyclist aka Mike Kruger wrote:
[...]
But when I got my new Xootr I ordered the Minoura bottle cage
holder
anyway.[...]

Folding bicycle or push scooter?

Folder. I documented the assembly process here (mostly so I can
remember how to repack it).
http://picasaweb.google.com/zbicyclist/XootrSwift#

Of course, the first thing you want to do is ride it, but it was
raining. I then threw it in the back of the car when we went up to
western Michigan for the weekend -- did a 57 mile ride and a 50 mile
ride with no problem. I was looking for something that wouldn't have
a performance hit relative to, say, a hybrid. A faired recumbent
would be faster (just saving you the keystrokes, Tom).

It rides well and does a "quick fold" in 5 seconds. The quick fold
is enough for the car or the office, but won't get it into a duffel
bag or suitcase -- that process is more complicated.

--
Mike Kruger
http://mikekr.blogspot.com/

ZBicyclist aka Mike Kruger wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
ZBicyclist aka Mike Kruger wrote:
[...]
But when I got my new Xootr I ordered the Minoura bottle cage
holder
anyway.[...]
Folding bicycle or push scooter?

Folder. I documented the assembly process here (mostly so I can
remember how to repack it).
http://picasaweb.google.com/zbicyclist/XootrSwift#

Good idea.

Of course, the first thing you want to do is ride it, but it was
raining. I then threw it in the back of the car when we went up to
western Michigan for the weekend -- did a 57 mile ride and a 50 mile
ride with no problem.

But no Spotted Cow in Michigan - that is a problem.

I was looking for something that wouldn't have
a performance hit relative to, say, a hybrid. A faired recumbent
would be faster (just saving you the keystrokes, Tom).

Ha!

It rides well and does a "quick fold" in 5 seconds. The quick fold
is enough for the car or the office, but won't get it into a duffel
bag or suitcase -- that process is more complicated.

So not Brompton or Tikit small, but better ride and performance?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

Tom Sherman wrote:
ZBicyclist aka Mike Kruger wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
ZBicyclist aka Mike Kruger wrote:
[...]
But when I got my new Xootr I ordered the Minoura bottle cage
holder
anyway.[...]
Folding bicycle or push scooter?

Folder. I documented the assembly process here (mostly so I can
remember how to repack it).
http://picasaweb.google.com/zbicyclist/XootrSwift#

Good idea.

Of course, the first thing you want to do is ride it, but it was
raining. I then threw it in the back of the car when we went up
to
western Michigan for the weekend -- did a 57 mile ride and a 50
mile
ride with no problem.

But no Spotted Cow in Michigan - that is a problem.

I was looking for something that wouldn't have
a performance hit relative to, say, a hybrid. A faired recumbent
would be faster (just saving you the keystrokes, Tom).

Ha!

It rides well and does a "quick fold" in 5 seconds. The quick
fold
is enough for the car or the office, but won't get it into a
duffel
bag or suitcase -- that process is more complicated.

So not Brompton or Tikit small, but better ride and performance?

That's right. The Xootr has 20 inch wheels; the Brompton-like
folders that get really small use 16 inch wheels. Just for scale, a
BikeE recumbent has one of each size: front 16, back 20.

With folders, there are a lot of tradeoffs, and you need to figure
out which ones are more or less important.

--
Mike Kruger
http://mikekr.blogspot.com/

It rides well and does a "quick fold" in 5 seconds.
The quick fold is enough for the car or the office,
but won't get it into a duffel bag or suitcase --
that process is more complicated.
So not Brompton or Tikit small, but better ride and
performance?

=v= I have a Swift Folder (a non-Xootr steel one). It
compares favorably to the standard Bike Friday design.
(And apropos the start of this tread, I added a Minoura
water bottle cage holder.)
_Jym_

Jym Dyer wrote:
It rides well and does a "quick fold" in 5 seconds.
The quick fold is enough for the car or the office,
but won't get it into a duffel bag or suitcase --
that process is more complicated.
So not Brompton or Tikit small, but better ride and
performance?

=v= I have a Swift Folder (a non-Xootr steel one). It
compares favorably to the standard Bike Friday design.
(And apropos the start of this tread, I added a Minoura
water bottle cage holder.)

Out of curiosity, what the origin of the Swift?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Twisting may help if yawl can chew gum and walk.” - gene daniels

Out of curiosity, what the origin of the Swift?

=v= It was designed by Peter Reich and Jan VanderTuin. Peter
built the CroMo frames in a factory in Brooklyn, New York, but
there was a long waiting list. A few years ago he went to the
Round*Up folding bicycle event in Philadelphia, and made a deal
to have Xootr manufacture alumninum Swifts. Jan VanderTuin
still makes CroMo ones in Eugene, Oregon.

=v= Peter's page (swiftfolder.com) is down, but archived:

http://web.archive.org/web/200712141...iftfolder.com/

Xootr's page:

http://xootr.com/xootr/swift/bikes.shtml

Jan's page:

http://www.catoregon.org/hpm.htm

_Jym_

Jym Dyer wrote:
Out of curiosity, what the origin of the Swift?

=v= It was designed by Peter Reich and Jan VanderTuin. Peter
built the CroMo frames in a factory in Brooklyn, New York, but
there was a long waiting list. A few years ago he went to the
Round*Up folding bicycle event in Philadelphia, and made a deal
to have Xootr manufacture alumninum Swifts. Jan VanderTuin
still makes CroMo ones in Eugene, Oregon.

=v= Peter's page (swiftfolder.com) is down, but archived:

http://web.archive.org/web/200712141...iftfolder.com/

Xootr's page:

http://xootr.com/xootr/swift/bikes.shtml

Jan's page:

http://www.catoregon.org/hpm.htm

_Jym_

It's interesting to compare how the same design has evolved in
execution. Here's a spec comparison.

Jan's specs on the left, Xootr on the right after the ||

SPECIFICATIONS
a.. TYPE: Folding bicycle.
b.. WHEELBASE: 41"
c.. BB HEIGHT: 11"
d.. STAND OVER HEIGHT: 25"
e.. WEIGHT: 28 lbs. || 22 lbs.
f.. FRAME: TIG welded CroMo tubing. || 6061-T6 custom-profiled
aluminum tubing, TIG welded
g.. FORK: CroMo Unicrown.
h.. FOLDED DIMENSIONS: 10" X 21.5" X 30".
i.. FINISH: Powder coat, many colors available. || blue or silver
j.. WHEELS: Rims- alloy 20" 406mm; spokes- stainless steel. ||
aluminum box-section rims, 406, spokes - stainless steel
k.. DRIVETRAIN: 3x9 internal hub, Shimano 8-speed internal hub or
single speed. || 8 speed SRAM SX4 derailleur
l.. BRAKES: V-brakes or disk brakes ($140. extra).
m.. OPTIONS: Standard drive train, fenders, racks, bag
n.. PRICE: $950 || $699
Just to be clear, I'm not doing a "right or wrong" here, just a
comparison.


--
Mike Kruger
http://mikekr.blogspot.com/

ZBicyclist aka Mike Kruger wrote:
Jym Dyer wrote:
Out of curiosity, what the origin of the Swift?
=v= It was designed by Peter Reich and Jan VanderTuin. Peter
built the CroMo frames in a factory in Brooklyn, New York, but
there was a long waiting list. A few years ago he went to the
Round*Up folding bicycle event in Philadelphia, and made a deal
to have Xootr manufacture alumninum Swifts. Jan VanderTuin
still makes CroMo ones in Eugene, Oregon.

=v= Peter's page (swiftfolder.com) is down, but archived:

http://web.archive.org/web/200712141...iftfolder.com/

Xootr's page:

http://xootr.com/xootr/swift/bikes.shtml

Jan's page:

http://www.catoregon.org/hpm.htm

_Jym_

It's interesting to compare how the same design has evolved in
execution. Here's a spec comparison.

Jan's specs on the left, Xootr on the right after the ||

SPECIFICATIONS
a.. TYPE: Folding bicycle.
b.. WHEELBASE: 41"
c.. BB HEIGHT: 11"
d.. STAND OVER HEIGHT: 25"
e.. WEIGHT: 28 lbs. || 22 lbs.
f.. FRAME: TIG welded CroMo tubing. || 6061-T6 custom-profiled
aluminum tubing, TIG welded
g.. FORK: CroMo Unicrown.
h.. FOLDED DIMENSIONS: 10" X 21.5" X 30".
i.. FINISH: Powder coat, many colors available. || blue or silver
j.. WHEELS: Rims- alloy 20" 406mm; spokes- stainless steel. ||
aluminum box-section rims, 406, spokes - stainless steel
k.. DRIVETRAIN: 3x9 internal hub, Shimano 8-speed internal hub or
single speed. || 8 speed SRAM SX4 derailleur
l.. BRAKES: V-brakes or disk brakes ($140. extra).
m.. OPTIONS: Standard drive train, fenders, racks, bag
n.. PRICE: $950 || $699
Just to be clear, I'm not doing a "right or wrong" here, just a
comparison.


The CAT version is made by a USian non-profit.

Where is the Xootr version made?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“fdlagjaesgtp4epsadvdsajvadsvadjvdxzjvodjvof
adsgvogjvoasjcaoivor6udfda0tvuojdxvosdotvfl” – Ed Dolan