Helmet Poll: First Hand Experience

On Tue, 9 May 2006 19:41:26 -0300, "jtaylor"
wrote:


"Ozark Bicycle" wrote in message
oups.com...

Sorni wrote:
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
I'm looking for three data points he

NOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, Bill, but yes. There has been so much "studies show",
"statistics prove" stuff regarding helmet use, that I thought some
first hand experiences might help put things in perspective. Care to
add yours?


Studies and statistics _are_ what gives a view perspective. You are not
seeking that - you're seeking individual anecdotes, which of themselves have
no predictive validity.

Why are you giving the helmet lobby the opportunity to hide the facts with
scaremongering?

And why are you afraid of reading actual experiences?

Jeff

"Ozark Bicycle" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm looking for three data points he

1) My head struck on object (pavement, vehicle, another cyclist, etc.)
whilst cycling; I was wearing a helmet and I feel the helmet lessened
the extent of my injuries.

I have whacked two helmets while road racing and getting caught in a crash.
I have never hit my head while training on the road or riding while the
usual group.

I whacked one helmet while training off-road. I wear one for off-road
riding.
Many small dings off-road over the years where the helmet probably didn't do
much.

[begin unsolicited portion]
I stopped wearing one last year for road training and friendly group rides
because i got tired of getting sweat dumped into my eyes on fast downhills
when the pads get squeezed by air pressure. I certainly feel safer as a
result, plus the cotton cycling cap is an awesome invention and way more
comfortable in almost all conditions.

Blake

Tim McNamara wrote:
In article . com,
"Ozark Bicycle" wrote:

Helmut Springer wrote:
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
I'm looking for three data points he

As your measure is always the subjective 'feel' of the reporting
person you are not collecting data, you are collecting impressions,
i.e. noise.

Right, I'm looking for peoples first hand experiences/feelings. That
is data, no?

No, you are asking us all for an anecdote. The plural of "anecdote" is
not "data."

Save this for next week, Tim, that's when the RBT Pedantic Championship
Series will be held. ;-)

jtaylor wrote:
"Ozark Bicycle" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm looking for three data points he

1) My head struck on object (pavement, vehicle, another cyclist, etc.)
whilst cycling; I was wearing a helmet and I feel the helmet lessened
the extent of my injuries.

or

2) My head struck on object whilst cycling; I was wearing a helmet and
I doubt it either lessened or worsened the extent of my injuries (i.e.,
the helmet made no difference).

or

3) My head struck an object whilst cycling; I was wearing a helmet and
I feel the helmet worsened the extent of my injuries.

Please limit responses to the three scenarios as outlined above. As
simple or as detailed as you like. And, *first hand* accounts only
(i.e., it happened to you). And no responses of "studies show",
"statistics prove", etc.

Beside the obvious and well-known flaw that self-selected responses are an
_extremely_ poor way to gather data, you have omitted a whole class of
instances in which had the cyclist been wearing a helmet, they would have
struck their head on an object - but because they were not, they did not.

You say you wish to exclude such instances - is this bias for helmets by
choice or accident?

And why do you wish to avoid real studies that have been done that already
show what is needed to determine the value of helmets and MHLs?

Which part of "*first hand* accounts only" can't you wrap your mind
around?

Now, do you have a *first hand* experience to contribute, or are you
just taking up space?

jtaylor wrote:
"Ozark Bicycle" wrote in message
ups.com...

Sorni wrote:
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
I'm looking for three data points he

NOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, Bill, but yes. There has been so much "studies show",
"statistics prove" stuff regarding helmet use, that I thought some
first hand experiences might help put things in perspective. Care to
add yours?


Studies and statistics _are_ what gives a view perspective. You are not
seeking that - you're seeking individual anecdotes, which of themselves have
no predictive validity.

Why are you giving the helmet lobby the opportunity to hide the facts with
scaremongering?

Are you too dense to see that you use *exactly* the same type of
scaremongering tactics the "helmet lobby" uses? Can you really be that
stupid and still remember to breathe?

Tim McNamara wrote:
In article . com,
"Ozark Bicycle" wrote:

Helmut Springer wrote:
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
I'm looking for three data points he

As your measure is always the subjective 'feel' of the reporting
person you are not collecting data, you are collecting impressions,
i.e. noise.

Right, I'm looking for peoples first hand experiences/feelings. That
is data, no?

No, you are asking us all for an anecdote. The plural of "anecdote" is
not "data."

Save this for next week, Tim, that's when the RBT Pedantic Championship
Series will be held. ;-)

In article ,
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

Per Tim McNamara:
That had to be alarming.

My personal pucker factor was off the scale.

I bet. Man, I've had a couple omigodi'vekilledmyself experiences but
they lasted for seconds not minutes minutes, and did not offer the
possibility of lifelong quadruplegia *if* I didn't drown first. Yikes!

Glad neither turned out to be the case!

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
I'm looking for three data points he

1) My head struck on object (pavement, vehicle, another cyclist,
etc.) whilst cycling; I was wearing a helmet and I feel the helmet
lessened the extent of my injuries.

One MTB crash during racing (dirt crit). I hit the ground at the bottom of
my skull and was unable to continue the race because my brake pad got jacked
up and external tools were not allowed. Not sure if the bottom of the
helmet was between the ground and my head... No observers were present.
I'm guessing I got a mild concussion because I became sleepy.

Numerous lightweight tree branch impacts on the MTB.

Have crashed many times commuting at ~15mph. All were at a ~45 degree lean
angle so there was little impact force and all road/flesh contact was on my
arms and knees.

Never wore a helmet during urban assault and trials riding. Never suffered
an impact anywhere above the knees.

Never crashed on a road ride.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
cupra wrote:
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
jtaylor wrote:
"Ozark Bicycle" wrote in
message
oups.com...
I'm looking for three data points he

1) My head struck on object (pavement, vehicle, another cyclist,
etc.) whilst cycling; I was wearing a helmet and I feel the helmet
lessened the extent of my injuries.

or

2) My head struck on object whilst cycling; I was wearing a helmet
and I doubt it either lessened or worsened the extent of my
injuries (i.e., the helmet made no difference).

or

3) My head struck an object whilst cycling; I was wearing a
helmet and I feel the helmet worsened the extent of my injuries.

Please limit responses to the three scenarios as outlined above.
As simple or as detailed as you like. And, *first hand* accounts
only (i.e., it happened to you). And no responses of "studies
show", "statistics prove", etc.
snip

It's a (1) for me (hit a rock on a trail, at speed)....

I'm in Fort Smith at the moment - any good shops I can visit (need
new shocks)?


Try Champion Cycling in Ft. Smith. 479-484-7500

(No connection whatsoever, etc., etc.)

Hope your head is okay. And enjoy the Ozarks!

Cool - thanks! Only here for work, keep thinking about extending my trips
here and taking in some of the Ozark trails!

(as long as it's nice and dry, without the tornado sirens going off!)

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
I'm looking for three data points he
2) My head struck on object whilst cycling; I was wearing a helmet and
I doubt it either lessened or worsened the extent of my injuries (i.e.,
the helmet made no difference).

The only time my helmet touched the ground with my head in it would be in
this category. An on-coming car turning left, driven by someone old with
spouse in the passenger seat, turned too early, clipping my rear wheel and
taking me down. I felt no impact and at the time of the fall, didn't think
that my head touched the ground on the sliding(?) fall. Afterwards, I
noticed some minor new scratches on the hard shell of my Bell V-1 Pro, but
no noticeable compression of the foam. Without the helmet, my head might
not have touched the ground at all.