More on the London Critical Mass ride on Friday.

On 29 Mar, 13:25, Doug wrote:
On 29 Mar, 12:52, ashley filmer wrote:



On 29 Mar, 08:15, Doug wrote:

On 28 Mar, 21:11, ashley filmer wrote:

On 28 Mar, 06:44, Doug wrote:

"Bike ride for three London cyclists killed by lorries
Miranda Bryant
26.03.10

Hundreds of cyclists are joining a mass bike ride today to raise
awareness of the dangers that lorries pose to cyclists in London.

The event is in memory of three cyclists who have died in the capital
in the past few weeks. They were killed in collisions with HGV
lorries.

Another cyclist is critical in hospital after being hit by a police
car in Islington on its way to a shooting in Hackney on Wednesday
night.

The cyclist, 59, who has not been named, was said to have been thrown
through the air by the force of the collision.

The ride, starting at 6pm on the South Bank under Waterloo Bridge,
goes to Tower Bridge Road, where the accident involving university
professor David Vilaseca, 46, occurred, then Weston Street in
Southwark, where student Haris Ahmed, 21, was killed and Lauriston
Road in Hackney, near where singer Shivon Watson, 28, died. There will
be a minute's silence at each site.

Maxwell Watson, 53, Ms Watson's father, said of the mass bike ride: "I
am very grateful to them for highlighting how bad the traffic is in
London and how irresponsible drivers are.”"

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...-bike-ride-wil...

I thought that critical mass was all about 'reclaiming the streets'
and a ride which has no beginning, no end and no direction. Who are
these people hijacking critical mass in the name of these fallen
cyclists, and why are you letting them get away with it Doug ?

Two points here.

Critical Mass is not ALL about anything. It is about different things
to different participants at different times.

Secondly, from time to time CM is hijacked by people who take over the
front of the ride for their own purposes. Usually those at the front
discuss among themselves which way to go and a consensus wins.
However, this does not mean that the mass at the back will inevitably
follow. My guess, and that is all it is, is that a majority of
participants on this ride were sympathetic to the aims of those at the
front or else they didn't care which way they went.

- Show quoted text -

So if the ride does not have a purpose, what is the point ?

The purpose is mutual support from a critical mass of participants.

Why can you not go and do this in one of the parks where you are
unlikely to obstruct people going lawfully about their business -
unless to obstruct and provoke is the primary intention Doug ?

Now it would be pretty pointless car drivers trying this because they
woulld get stuck in the jams of the City, but could you imagine what
would happen if a group of motorcyclists decided they were going to
'reclaim the streets' from cyclists Doug ?
If their numberplates were to 'accidentally' fall off (and risk the
'average' £60 fine), they could behave as illegally as cyclists do on
these rides, and the chance of a cyclist outrunning even a moped is
remote.

I don't believe that any motorcyclisrts could be so petty to obsturct
others unless they had a very good reason to (and that is not to
'reclaim the streets', they are for all of us to use)
--
Critical Mass Londonhttp://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk
"Get out of my way you f*ing cyclist"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On 29 Mar, 14:35, ashley filmer wrote:
On 29 Mar, 13:25, Doug wrote:

On 29 Mar, 12:52, ashley filmer wrote:

On 29 Mar, 08:15, Doug wrote:

On 28 Mar, 21:11, ashley filmer wrote:

On 28 Mar, 06:44, Doug wrote:

"Bike ride for three London cyclists killed by lorries
Miranda Bryant
26.03.10

Hundreds of cyclists are joining a mass bike ride today to raise
awareness of the dangers that lorries pose to cyclists in London.

On 29 Mar, 17:54, Doug wrote:
On 29 Mar, 14:35, ashley filmer wrote:



On 29 Mar, 13:25, Doug wrote:

On 29 Mar, 12:52, ashley filmer wrote:

On 29 Mar, 08:15, Doug wrote:

On 28 Mar, 21:11, ashley filmer wrote:

On 28 Mar, 06:44, Doug wrote:

"Bike ride for three London cyclists killed by lorries
Miranda Bryant
26.03.10

Hundreds of cyclists are joining a mass bike ride today to raise
awareness of the dangers that lorries pose to cyclists in London.

The event is in memory of three cyclists who have died in the capital
in the past few weeks. They were killed in collisions with HGV
lorries.

Another cyclist is critical in hospital after being hit by a police
car in Islington on its way to a shooting in Hackney on Wednesday
night.

The cyclist, 59, who has not been named, was said to have been thrown
through the air by the force of the collision.

The ride, starting at 6pm on the South Bank under Waterloo Bridge,
goes to Tower Bridge Road, where the accident involving university
professor David Vilaseca, 46, occurred, then Weston Street in
Southwark, where student Haris Ahmed, 21, was killed and Lauriston
Road in Hackney, near where singer Shivon Watson, 28, died. There will
be a minute's silence at each site.

Maxwell Watson, 53, Ms Watson's father, said of the mass bike ride: "I
am very grateful to them for highlighting how bad the traffic is in
London and how irresponsible drivers are.”"

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...-bike-ride-wil...

I thought that critical mass was all about 'reclaiming the streets'
and a ride which has no beginning, no end and no direction. Who are
these people hijacking critical mass in the name of these fallen
cyclists, and why are you letting them get away with it Doug ?

Two points here.

Critical Mass is not ALL about anything. It is about different things
to different participants at different times.

Secondly, from time to time CM is hijacked by people who take over the
front of the ride for their own purposes. Usually those at the front
discuss among themselves which way to go and a consensus wins.
However, this does not mean that the mass at the back will inevitably
follow. My guess, and that is all it is, is that a majority of
participants on this ride were sympathetic to the aims of those at the
front or else they didn't care which way they went.

- Show quoted text -

So if the ride does not have a purpose, what is the point ?

The purpose is mutual support from a critical mass of participants.

Why can you not go and do this in one of the parks where you are
unlikely to obstruct people going lawfully about their business -
unless to obstruct and provoke is the primary intention Doug ?

You could say the same about any procession which is held on roads.
You see not everyone believes that roads should only be used solely
for passing and repassing and for parking cars.

The idea for CM was conceived in 1992 in San Francisco and became
worldwide and the London ride started in 1994 and has been happening
ever since, that is why it has been called 'customary' and is always
held on roads.

Now it would be pretty pointless car drivers trying this because they
woulld get stuck in the jams of the City, but could you imagine what
would happen if a group of motorcyclists decided they were going to
'reclaim the streets' from cyclists Doug ?

Dunno. Why don't you ask the?

If their numberplates were to 'accidentally' fall off (and risk the
'average' £60 fine), they could behave as illegally as cyclists do on
these rides, and the chance of a cyclist outrunning even a moped is
remote.

So ask them.

I don't believe that any motorcyclisrts could be so petty to obsturct
others unless they had a very good reason to (and that is not to
'reclaim the streets', they are for all of us to use)

You are now singling out one possible CM motivation out of several.
Doesn't the word 'reclaim' suggest something to you? There are some
cyclists who believe that the streets have been taken away from them,
mainly by a vast majority of motorists. As far as I know motorcyclists
do not have a similar problem.


These roads never did belong to cyclists alone Doug.How many
historical paintings or photographs show roads full of cyclists in the
UK ? They are always full of either horse and carriages, horseriders
or pedestrians - or early model cars.



--
Critical Mass London
*http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk
"Get out of my way you f*ing cyclist"- Hide quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On 30 Mar, 09:49, ashley filmer wrote:
On 29 Mar, 17:54, Doug wrote:

On 29 Mar, 14:35, ashley filmer wrote:

On 29 Mar, 13:25, Doug wrote:

On 29 Mar, 12:52, ashley filmer wrote:

On 29 Mar, 08:15, Doug wrote:

On 28 Mar, 21:11, ashley filmer wrote:

On 28 Mar, 06:44, Doug wrote:

"Bike ride for three London cyclists killed by lorries
Miranda Bryant
26.03.10

Hundreds of cyclists are joining a mass bike ride today to raise
awareness of the dangers that lorries pose to cyclists in London.

The event is in memory of three cyclists who have died in the capital
in the past few weeks. They were killed in collisions with HGV
lorries.

Another cyclist is critical in hospital after being hit by a police
car in Islington on its way to a shooting in Hackney on Wednesday
night.

The cyclist, 59, who has not been named, was said to have been thrown
through the air by the force of the collision.

The ride, starting at 6pm on the South Bank under Waterloo Bridge,
goes to Tower Bridge Road, where the accident involving university
professor David Vilaseca, 46, occurred, then Weston Street in
Southwark, where student Haris Ahmed, 21, was killed and Lauriston
Road in Hackney, near where singer Shivon Watson, 28, died. There will
be a minute's silence at each site.

Maxwell Watson, 53, Ms Watson's father, said of the mass bike ride: "I
am very grateful to them for highlighting how bad the traffic is in
London and how irresponsible drivers are.”"

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...-bike-ride-wil...

I thought that critical mass was all about 'reclaiming the streets'
and a ride which has no beginning, no end and no direction. Who are
these people hijacking critical mass in the name of these fallen
cyclists, and why are you letting them get away with it Doug ?

Two points here.

Critical Mass is not ALL about anything. It is about different things
to different participants at different times.

Secondly, from time to time CM is hijacked by people who take over the
front of the ride for their own purposes. Usually those at the front
discuss among themselves which way to go and a consensus wins.
However, this does not mean that the mass at the back will inevitably
follow. My guess, and that is all it is, is that a majority of
participants on this ride were sympathetic to the aims of those at the
front or else they didn't care which way they went.

- Show quoted text -

So if the ride does not have a purpose, what is the point ?

The purpose is mutual support from a critical mass of participants.

Why can you not go and do this in one of the parks where you are
unlikely to obstruct people going lawfully about their business -
unless to obstruct and provoke is the primary intention Doug ?

You could say the same about any procession which is held on roads.
You see not everyone believes that roads should only be used solely
for passing and repassing and for parking cars.

The idea for CM was conceived in 1992 in San Francisco and became
worldwide and the London ride started in 1994 and has been happening
ever since, that is why it has been called 'customary' and is always
held on roads.

Now it would be pretty pointless car drivers trying this because they
woulld get stuck in the jams of the City, but could you imagine what
would happen if a group of motorcyclists decided they were going to
'reclaim the streets' from cyclists Doug ?

Dunno. Why don't you ask the?

If their numberplates were to 'accidentally' fall off (and risk the
'average' £60 fine), they could behave as illegally as cyclists do on
these rides, and the chance of a cyclist outrunning even a moped is
remote.

So ask them.

I don't believe that any motorcyclisrts could be so petty to obsturct
others unless they had a very good reason to (and that is not to
'reclaim the streets', they are for all of us to use)

You are now singling out one possible CM motivation out of several.
Doesn't the word 'reclaim' suggest something to you? There are some
cyclists who believe that the streets have been taken away from them,
mainly by a vast majority of motorists. As far as I know motorcyclists
do not have a similar problem.

These roads never did belong to cyclists alone Doug.How many
historical paintings or photographs show roads full of cyclists in the
UK ? They are always full of either horse and carriages, horseriders
or pedestrians - or early model cars.

Why are you deliberately being disingenuous? I didn't claim the road
belong to cyclists ALONE. What I claim is that they have a right to
use the roads and that right is increasingly being denied due to the
danger from motor vehicles and the prioritisation of motor vehicles.


--
Critical Mass London
*http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk
"Get out of my way you f*ing cyclist"-

On Mar 31, 7:38*am, Doug wrote:
On 30 Mar, 09:49, ashley filmer wrote:

On 29 Mar, 17:54, Doug wrote:

On 29 Mar, 14:35, ashley filmer wrote:

On 29 Mar, 13:25, Doug wrote:

On 29 Mar, 12:52, ashley filmer wrote:

On 29 Mar, 08:15, Doug wrote:

On 28 Mar, 21:11, ashley filmer wrote:

On 28 Mar, 06:44, Doug wrote:

"Bike ride for three London cyclists killed by lorries
Miranda Bryant
26.03.10

Hundreds of cyclists are joining a mass bike ride today to raise
awareness of the dangers that lorries pose to cyclists in London.

The event is in memory of three cyclists who have died in the capital
in the past few weeks. They were killed in collisions with HGV
lorries.

Another cyclist is critical in hospital after being hit by a police
car in Islington on its way to a shooting in Hackney on Wednesday
night.

The cyclist, 59, who has not been named, was said to have been thrown
through the air by the force of the collision.

The ride, starting at 6pm on the South Bank under Waterloo Bridge,
goes to Tower Bridge Road, where the accident involving university
professor David Vilaseca, 46, occurred, then Weston Street in
Southwark, where student Haris Ahmed, 21, was killed and Lauriston
Road in Hackney, near where singer Shivon Watson, 28, died. There will
be a minute's silence at each site.

Maxwell Watson, 53, Ms Watson's father, said of the mass bike ride: "I
am very grateful to them for highlighting how bad the traffic is in
London and how irresponsible drivers are.”"

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...-bike-ride-wil...

I thought that critical mass was all about 'reclaiming the streets'
and a ride which has no beginning, no end and no direction. Who are
these people hijacking critical mass in the name of these fallen
cyclists, and why are you letting them get away with it Doug ?

Two points here.

Critical Mass is not ALL about anything. It is about different things
to different participants at different times.

Secondly, from time to time CM is hijacked by people who take over the
front of the ride for their own purposes. Usually those at the front
discuss among themselves which way to go and a consensus wins..
However, this does not mean that the mass at the back will inevitably
follow. My guess, and that is all it is, is that a majority of
participants on this ride were sympathetic to the aims of those at the
front or else they didn't care which way they went.

- Show quoted text -

So if the ride does not have a purpose, what is the point ?

The purpose is mutual support from a critical mass of participants.

Why can you not go and do this in one of the parks where you are
unlikely to obstruct people going lawfully about their business -
unless to obstruct and provoke is the primary intention Doug ?

You could say the same about any procession which is held on roads.
You see not everyone believes that roads should only be used solely
for passing and repassing and for parking cars.

The idea for CM was conceived in 1992 in San Francisco and became
worldwide and the London ride started in 1994 and has been happening
ever since, that is why it has been called 'customary' and is always
held on roads.

Now it would be pretty pointless car drivers trying this because they
woulld get stuck in the jams of the City, but could you imagine what
would happen if a group of motorcyclists decided they were going to
'reclaim the streets' from cyclists Doug ?

Dunno. Why don't you ask the?

If their numberplates were to 'accidentally' fall off (and risk the
'average' £60 fine), they could behave as illegally as cyclists do on
these rides, and the chance of a cyclist outrunning even a moped is
remote.

So ask them.

I don't believe that any motorcyclisrts could be so petty to obsturct
others unless they had a very good reason to (and that is not to
'reclaim the streets', they are for all of us to use)

You are now singling out one possible CM motivation out of several.
Doesn't the word 'reclaim' suggest something to you? There are some
cyclists who believe that the streets have been taken away from them,
mainly by a vast majority of motorists. As far as I know motorcyclists
do not have a similar problem.

These roads never did belong to cyclists alone Doug.How many
historical paintings or photographs show roads full of cyclists in the
UK ? They are always full of either horse and carriages, horseriders
or pedestrians - or early model cars.

Why are you deliberately being disingenuous? I didn't claim the road
belong to cyclists ALONE. What I claim is that they have a right to
use the roads and that right is increasingly being denied due to the
danger from motor vehicles and the prioritisation of motor vehicles.



--
Critical Mass London
*http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk
"Get out of my way you f*ing cyclist"-

The phrase 'reclaim the roads' comes to mind.

Marie

Doug wrote:


Why are you deliberately being disingenuous? I didn't claim the road
belong to cyclists ALONE. What I claim is that they have a right to
use the roads and that right is increasingly being denied due to the
danger from motor vehicles and the prioritisation of motor vehicles.

Motorists pay for roads, cyclists, despite their imaginative fantasy's,
don't.


--
Dave - the small piece of 14th century armour used to protect the armpit.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:39:42 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Doug wrote:


Why are you deliberately being disingenuous? I didn't claim the road
belong to cyclists ALONE. What I claim is that they have a right to
use the roads and that right is increasingly being denied due to the
danger from motor vehicles and the prioritisation of motor vehicles.

Motorists pay for roads, cyclists, despite their imaginative fantasy's,
don't.

Fantasy's?

You may find this useful. Should make good reading for a champion of
the language such as yourself.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eats-Shoots-.../dp/1846680352

Googling for "The British Tax System" turns up a couple of books which
might help your understanding on that front too.

Peter Grange wrote:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:39:42 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Doug wrote:


Why are you deliberately being disingenuous? I didn't claim the road
belong to cyclists ALONE. What I claim is that they have a right to
use the roads and that right is increasingly being denied due to the
danger from motor vehicles and the prioritisation of motor vehicles.

Motorists pay for roads, cyclists, despite their imaginative
fantasy's, don't.

Fantasy's?

You may find this useful. Should make good reading for a champion of
the language such as yourself.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eats-Shoots-.../dp/1846680352

Googling for "The British Tax System" turns up a couple of books which
might help your understanding on that front too.

Googling for '****wit' might help you understand why you are one.


--
Dave - intelligent enough to realise that a push bike is a kid's toy, not a
viable form of transport.

On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 19:15:07 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Peter Grange wrote:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:39:42 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Doug wrote:


Why are you deliberately being disingenuous? I didn't claim the road
belong to cyclists ALONE. What I claim is that they have a right to
use the roads and that right is increasingly being denied due to the
danger from motor vehicles and the prioritisation of motor vehicles.

Motorists pay for roads, cyclists, despite their imaginative
fantasy's, don't.

Fantasy's?

You may find this useful. Should make good reading for a champion of
the language such as yourself.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eats-Shoots-.../dp/1846680352

Googling for "The British Tax System" turns up a couple of books which
might help your understanding on that front too.

Googling for '****wit' might help you understand why you are one.

Nothing to say but personal abuse again.

On 31 Mar, 08:40, ashley filmer wrote:
On 31 Mar, 07:38, Doug wrote:



On 30 Mar, 09:49, ashley filmer wrote:

On 29 Mar, 17:54, Doug wrote:

On 29 Mar, 14:35, ashley filmer wrote:

On 29 Mar, 13:25, Doug wrote:

On 29 Mar, 12:52, ashley filmer wrote:

On 29 Mar, 08:15, Doug wrote:

On 28 Mar, 21:11, ashley filmer wrote:

On 28 Mar, 06:44, Doug wrote:

"Bike ride for three London cyclists killed by lorries
Miranda Bryant
26.03.10

Hundreds of cyclists are joining a mass bike ride today to raise
awareness of the dangers that lorries pose to cyclists in London.

The event is in memory of three cyclists who have died in the capital
in the past few weeks. They were killed in collisions with HGV
lorries.

Another cyclist is critical in hospital after being hit by a police
car in Islington on its way to a shooting in Hackney on Wednesday
night.

The cyclist, 59, who has not been named, was said to have been thrown
through the air by the force of the collision.

The ride, starting at 6pm on the South Bank under Waterloo Bridge,
goes to Tower Bridge Road, where the accident involving university
professor David Vilaseca, 46, occurred, then Weston Street in
Southwark, where student Haris Ahmed, 21, was killed and Lauriston
Road in Hackney, near where singer Shivon Watson, 28, died. There will
be a minute's silence at each site.

Maxwell Watson, 53, Ms Watson's father, said of the mass bike ride: "I
am very grateful to them for highlighting how bad the traffic is in
London and how irresponsible drivers are.”"

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...-bike-ride-wil...

I thought that critical mass was all about 'reclaiming the streets'
and a ride which has no beginning, no end and no direction. Who are
these people hijacking critical mass in the name of these fallen
cyclists, and why are you letting them get away with it Doug ?

Two points here.

Critical Mass is not ALL about anything. It is about different things
to different participants at different times.

Secondly, from time to time CM is hijacked by people who take over the
front of the ride for their own purposes. Usually those at the front
discuss among themselves which way to go and a consensus wins.
However, this does not mean that the mass at the back will inevitably
follow. My guess, and that is all it is, is that a majority of
participants on this ride were sympathetic to the aims of those at the
front or else they didn't care which way they went.

- Show quoted text -

So if the ride does not have a purpose, what is the point ?

The purpose is mutual support from a critical mass of participants.

Why can you not go and do this in one of the parks where you are
unlikely to obstruct people going lawfully about their business -
unless to obstruct and provoke is the primary intention Doug ?

You could say the same about any procession which is held on roads.
You see not everyone believes that roads should only be used solely
for passing and repassing and for parking cars.

The idea for CM was conceived in 1992 in San Francisco and became
worldwide and the London ride started in 1994 and has been happening
ever since, that is why it has been called 'customary' and is always
held on roads.

Now it would be pretty pointless car drivers trying this because they
woulld get stuck in the jams of the City, but could you imagine what
would happen if a group of motorcyclists decided they were going to
'reclaim the streets' from cyclists Doug ?

Dunno. Why don't you ask the?

If their numberplates were to 'accidentally' fall off (and risk the
'average' £60 fine), they could behave as illegally as cyclists do on
these rides, and the chance of a cyclist outrunning even a moped is
remote.

So ask them.

I don't believe that any motorcyclisrts could be so petty to obsturct
others unless they had a very good reason to (and that is not to
'reclaim the streets', they are for all of us to use)

You are now singling out one possible CM motivation out of several.
Doesn't the word 'reclaim' suggest something to you? There are some
cyclists who believe that the streets have been taken away from them,
mainly by a vast majority of motorists. As far as I know motorcyclists
do not have a similar problem.

These roads never did belong to cyclists alone Doug.How many
historical paintings or photographs show roads full of cyclists in the
UK ? They are always full of either horse and carriages, horseriders
or pedestrians - or early model cars.

Why are you deliberately being disingenuous? I didn't claim the road
belong to cyclists ALONE. What I claim is that they have a right to
use the roads and that right is increasingly being denied due to the
danger from motor vehicles and the prioritisation of motor vehicles.

--
Critical Mass London
*http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk
"Get out of my way you f*ing cyclist"-- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So why not speak to the councillors or critical mass to the council
offices and demand action as a coherent group with an agenda and
demand they rip out the shared cyclepaths which they have stuck on the
pavements ?

Been there tried that. The council, like everywhere else, is dominated
by the motorist majority, some of whom dislike cyclists. They even had
for a time a cycling officer who also disliked cyclists. He was of
course a motorist too. Council bosses are wary about alienating their
motorist employees.

When drivers see these facilities being put in, they automatically
assume that a cyclist has no right to be on the road. These facilities
also give the cyclists the idea that they have every right to be on
the pavements.

This experiment in social engineering is a failed one and had left
both cyclists and drivers with the notion that you as a cyclist should
not be sharing the space with them. As a pedestrian, I don't want you
on the pavement either Doug!

Amazingly I agree with you on this one, and while they are at it they
should take out those dreadful railings too.

Part of the problem is that planners and engineers tend not to be
dedicated cyclists and have little idea of what cycling actually
involves. The things you mention are a quick-fix substitute for making
roads safe for cyclists and pedestrians at the expense of traffic
flow. So until this is done, scared and vulnerable cyclists will
continue to ride on pavements and motorists will not respect the right
of cyclists to share their 'bought and paid for' roads.

--
Critical Mass London
http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk
"Get out of my way you f*ing cyclist"