Kryptonite Locks safe?

"John Morgan" wrote in message
news:ym3Cc.2257$BS3.444@fed1read06...
Thomas Schmidt wrote:

Hi,

a friend told me that all these bicycle locks that have these round
or tubular keys are not safe because they were easy to open with
so-called "picktools". he also told me that there are newer locks
with a "ace-2" lock or something which are safer.

The question is: does all that only regard cheap noname-locks or
even brand-name locks like kryptonite? I am asking because I
have 3 kryptonite locks in use, one EvoLite (4 years old), one
New York Chain (2 years old) and a quite old kryptonite I don't
know the exact name, should be about 10 years old.

Do at least the newer ones feature this "ace-2" lock or do I have
to replace them all?

Thank you for your advice, Thomas

I had a Kryptonite New Yorker Chain (with old style EV Disc lock) and it
was
picked while I was at college. The bike was subsequently stolen, of
course. If you must buy a lock, make sure it's the so-called 'ace-2'
version.

Easy pick'ins, huh? That sucks. I bet the theif had one hell of a grin on
his face riding off with your bike. So did Kryptonite replace it or what???

Dave

"Thomas Schmidt" wrote in message
...

Sorry, but this is useless blah blah.

If good advice is useless "blah, blah, blah" then maybe you need to ask
about
this in alt.locksmithing instead.
(Yes, it exists, as does alt.life.locksmithing)

Steve "full of blah, blah, blah..."

What Monique said was NOT good advice, it was useless because
she did not answer my question and just wrote something general instead.


Dude, you're an idiot. Why ask for advice, just to discredit it?

Fine, she didn't tell you specifically that "Lock brand A is better than
Lock Brand B", that's irrelavent. Like buying bikes, cars, stereos, the
more you pay, the better the quality (generally.) Monique was nice enough
to take it a step farther an explain that "No lock is safe", and that if
you're really worried about your bike, don't leave it alone.

If on the other hand, you can handle the slight chance of your bike being
scoffed, then buy a good quality bike lock. Kryptonite is one of the best,
however I use a plain old 0.5 Meter long piece of hardened stainless steel
chain. Never had a problem there, in fact, if you I keep the chain tight,
it would make it really hard to handle and saw.

Hope this helps enough to avoid your scorn.

Alpha Male

Kamus of Kadizhar wrote in message om...
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 00:34:18 -0700, Reco Diver wrote:

Urban legend.
Freon is a simple CFC. The Dupont trademarked "Freon" is/was used as a
refrigerant, but even submerging metals in it has no effect on the
structure of the metal.

T'aint the structure.

If you aren't altering the crystal structure, what effect does
freezing have on steel?

It's the fact that when you release a compressed
gas (any gas) the temp drops.

Charles law, Boyles Law, the Third perfect gas law, all help define
the adiabatic change in a gas. But Freon is a CFC that is shipped at
relatively low pressure. In a mechanical refrigerator Freon is
compressed to ~10 kg/sq. cm then allowed to vaporize at ~1 kg/sq. cm.
The result is a refrigerant at -18oC. -18oC is hardly cold enough to
effect a hardened steel shackle.

Freon just happens to be very good at that.

So is ammonia, which Freon was created to replace.


So, take a compressed gas, release it with metal in the way, metal
freezes. Freeze metal enough, it becomes brittle.

That would be a change in the stucture of the metal ... thought you
said "T'aint the structure." The problem is freezing the metal
"enough."

Tap it with a hammer,
it shatters.

Check the MSDS for Freon (Freon 12, Freon 22, Freon 115, and Dupont
Freon 502). They are cfc's shipped at less than 5 atm. With a boiling
point of ~ -30 C at 1 atm, the release of presure is not great enough
to effect the crystal structure of a ~1/2 inch chunk of hardened
steel. I have worked doing cutting and welding at -40 degrees (my
favorite working temp), with many blends of steel, and none of them
became overly brittle, or brittle to the point of failure with a blow
from a hammer.


IIRC, hardened steel is especially prone to this; this is apparently why
some locks have a mild steel 'sheath' around a hardened steel core.

Nothing to do with Freon or its safety; you could use CO2 for a demo.
Heck, have you never had a valve freeze after using one of those CO2
cartridges?

CO2 in that application is shipped under much higher pressure, and has
a boiling point of -78 C (1 atm). Still, you can spray a lock with
CO2, you can pack it in "Dry Ice", you can leave it over night, take
it out hit it with a hammer and the lock won't break. I believe you
will find that liquid nitrogen has a boiling point close to ~ -195 C
and a freezing point at just over ~ -200 C ... that might be cold
enough.


snip

R

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:34:59 -0700, Reco Diver wrote:

CO2 in that application is shipped under much higher pressure, and has
a boiling point of -78 C (1 atm). Still, you can spray a lock with
CO2, you can pack it in "Dry Ice", you can leave it over night, take
it out hit it with a hammer and the lock won't break. I believe you
will find that liquid nitrogen has a boiling point close to ~ -195 C
and a freezing point at just over ~ -200 C ... that might be cold
enough.

This is getting waaay OT but you got me curious. I'm definitely gonna try
to research this.... Another way to fritter away the time when it's
raining....

--Kamus

Kamus of Kadizhar wrote in
news
So, take a compressed gas, release it with metal in the way, metal
freezes. Freeze metal enough, it becomes brittle. Tap it with a
hammer, it shatters.

IIRC, hardened steel is especially prone to this; this is apparently
why some locks have a mild steel 'sheath' around a hardened steel
core.

Nothing to do with Freon or its safety; you could use CO2 for a demo.
Heck, have you never had a valve freeze after using one of those CO2
cartridges?

Some googling - turns out that the freezing method has dropped in
popularity; I guess because now you need a license for Freon and locks
have become less susceptible.

--Kamus

Have you ever actually seen this done? I doubt it. I have attempted just
that, and even a ulock immersed in liquid nitrogen had no effect to a 20
pound sledge. Try it yourself, and realize that everything you read on the
internet is not necessarily fact....

Pistof wrote:

I had a Kryptonite New Yorker Chain (with old style EV Disc lock) and it
was
picked while I was at college. The bike was subsequently stolen, of
course. If you must buy a lock, make sure it's the so-called 'ace-2'
version.

Easy pick'ins, huh? That sucks. I bet the theif had one hell of a grin
on
his face riding off with your bike. So did Kryptonite replace it or
what???

Dave

I wrote a complaint to Kryptonite's "Complaint Department." You need to
have one of these when you're a lock company... it gives your customer a
place to vent his anger. They responded in a very kind and compassionate
manner... I was extremely impressed. They even offered to replace the lock
(note: not the bike, since the lock was not pried or broken with force)
free of charge. I never took them up on the offer, though. I don't have
any use for locks anymore. I'm afraid if I had one, I'd be tempted to use
it.

John M

"Thomas Schmidt" wrote in message
...
Hi,


Do at least the newer ones feature this "ace-2" lock or do I have
to replace them all?

Thank you for your advice, Thomas

All this lock-picking talk has me worried about my "impervious" NYChain w/EV
Disc lock that I'm going to be using to keep my Cross-Check secure on
campus. Now, I'm pretty sure I'm going to add a MasterLock combination lock
to the mix. I don't want to futz with two locks three or four times a day,
but I also want to keep my bike...

Ugh. If I ever catch a bike thief in the act...

Chris
(had an X-Caliber picked last year)

big snip

Not to be rude, but please consider that you may be talking to others with
science degrees before you start *sounding* smart.

cc

cc says (in big print, so we can read it...)

Not to be rude, but please consider that you may be talking to others with
science degrees before you start *sounding* smart.

Problem there is that then no-one would say anything about anything.
Also, when you have to start throwing degrees around to be credible, then you
may as well be MV. Give me experience over a degree any day for REAL practical
knowledge.

Steve "BSc in Yacht Design"

PS. "Yacht Design" = Jack of all trades, Master of some"

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 13:22:56 -0400, Kamus of Kadizhar wrote:

This is getting waaay OT but you got me curious. I'm definitely gonna try
to research this.... Another way to fritter away the time when it's
raining....

The "apparently" straight scoop on the Freon thing:

Long ago, when Kryptonite locks first came out, the shackles were
overhardened, making them vulnerable to Freon/dry ice and a hammer.

That has been addressed and the method no longer works.

--Kamus