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Invisible Cyclists in Solstice Dark



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 23rd 05, 08:41 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,rec.bicycles.misc
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Default Invisible Cyclists in Solstice Dark

wrote:

Nonsense. Light/bright colours are much more visible than dark colours
when picked up by headlights or any other lights for that matter. Thats
what "light" or "bright" mean more or less i.e. more visible. DARK
CLOTHING IS WHAT YOU'D WEAR IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SEEN. Or are you
arguing that black is white?


With Scotchlite Black Diamond material, black can be white at night ;-)
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ProductDetai... 77&UberCat=0




--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham
Ads
  #12  
Old December 23rd 05, 09:13 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,rec.bicycles.misc
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Default Invisible Cyclists in Solstice Dark


"Elisa Francesca Roselli" wrote in message
...
In these dark winter months, I am car-pooling with a colleague to get to
work. Although I am impervious to cold, I am not happy about cycling
because of the poor visibility. My road to work is poorly lit, my eyesight
is bad, my balance perturbed by the dancing beam of my front light and my
glasses fog up every time I stop.

In the car, I really do get to notice what can and cannot be seen from a
motorist's point of view. And I am appalled to discover just how hard it
can be to see cyclists and pedestrians, and how few of them seem to be
aware of this.

Much winter clothing is dark or black to begin with. Then many ride
entirely without lights, or just a little reflector. Great aurioles of
light surround the street lights and the headlights of the oncoming cars,
casting everything else around them into a pitch black shadow from the
glare. A few days ago, I was standing on a pavement waiting for a bus,
looking directly into the traffic. Two cyclists swooped right in front of
me - they were less than 30 feet from me before I even noticed them.


I see riders in stealth clothing quite often - it's little wonder that they
get hit, sad though that is. At night I ride in a bright yellow Altura
Nevis - it's very visible. Also I don't use one of those tiny LED lights on
the back but a large area one that has several LEDs in it and a large
expanse of reflector/refractor lens. I ride in the countryside so I am quite
easy to see because of the lack of distracting light sources, if I was in a
town I would be very nervous of riding busy roads in the dark.

John


  #13  
Old December 23rd 05, 09:24 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,rec.bicycles.misc
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Default Invisible Cyclists in Solstice Dark

Eatmorepies wrote:

I see riders in stealth clothing quite often - it's little wonder that they
get hit, sad though that is. At night I ride in a bright yellow Altura
Nevis - it's very visible. Also I don't use one of those tiny LED lights on
the back but a large area one that has several LEDs in it and a large
expanse of reflector/refractor lens. I ride in the countryside so I am quite
easy to see because of the lack of distracting light sources, if I was in a
town I would be very nervous of riding busy roads in the dark.


That's more lack of confidence than real risk. I ride frequently in
London in the dark and have very little that gives me concerns.

I've been looking at bike lights for conspicuousness following recent
threads here. For the front, conventional halogen or similar lights
blend into the background of car lights but the bluish tinged white LEDs
do stand out. The most effective I've seen is two out of phase flashing
white LEDs on the front which were unmissable even with a lot of car
headlights around. For the rear a really bright red slowish flashing
LED seems to be the best but they still blend in rather too well with
the surrounding red car lights.


--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham
  #14  
Old December 23rd 05, 09:57 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,rec.bicycles.misc
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Default Invisible Cyclists in Solstice Dark

Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:
In these dark winter months, I am car-pooling with a colleague to get to
work. Although I am impervious to cold, I am not happy about cycling
because of the poor visibility. My road to work is poorly lit, my
eyesight is bad, my balance perturbed by the dancing beam of my front
light and my glasses fog up every time I stop.

In the car, I really do get to notice what can and cannot be seen from a
motorist's point of view. And I am appalled to discover just how hard it
can be to see cyclists and pedestrians, and how few of them seem to be
aware of this.

Much winter clothing is dark or black to begin with. Then many ride
entirely without lights, or just a little reflector. Great aurioles of
light surround the street lights and the headlights of the oncoming
cars, casting everything else around them into a pitch black shadow from
the glare. A few days ago, I was standing on a pavement waiting for a
bus, looking directly into the traffic. Two cyclists swooped right in
front of me - they were less than 30 feet from me before I even noticed
them.

On mornings and even in the broad daylight of the lunch hour, there is
frequently a freezing smog that not only soups up the air but makes the
ground slippery. This smog can come on quite suddenly - all is clear,
then the car descends into a barely perceptible valley and the
windscreen empties like a movie screen with the projector turned off.

For night riding it has been my personal practise to wear a reflector
vest and blinkie lights on armbands. I have a LED headlight and a small
red backlight. But my lesson from this is that perhaps even I need to up
the ante. I shall get myself a yellow reflector parka from Glow Dog, and
wear that even as a pedestrian. And I need more blinkies, especially in
the back.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but for those of you who do
cycle in the dark, please make sure you are as visible as you can make
yourselves. Perhaps do a visibility test with your gear - ask family or
a neighbor for feedback on whether you can be seen and at what distance,
especially if you are sharing the road with cars and headlights.

Safe riding to all,

EFR
Ile de France


Great article.

Please remember, even if you don't need lights to enable you to see,
lights make you visible to other people. Motor vehicles generally move
much faster than bicycles. If you and a motor vehicle driver can both
see the same distance under current lighting, the mvd will typically
have far less time to react to your presence and avoid turning you into
a hood ornament. Do yourself a favour and be obvious.

On behalf of commercial drivers (and cyclists) everywhere, Merry Christmas.
  #15  
Old December 23rd 05, 10:43 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,rec.bicycles.misc
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Default Invisible Cyclists in Solstice Dark


Claire Petersky wrote:
What I find the worst are the stealth peds -- black
pants, black jacket, dark hair, nothing reflective or illuminated. I don't
think they realize how difficult they are to see.


They certainly don't.

I did a little reading on the research regarding ped (and cyclists)
visibility. One paper talked about an experiment on a closed course,
where motorists were to drive slowly toward a pedestrian standing in
the road directly in front. The motorists were to stop when they saw
the ped. With dark clothing and no reflectors or lights, the first
pedestrian subject actually had to jump out of the way to prevent being
run over! And the driver _knew_ he was there... somewhere!

And again, it's a shame, because the papers showed that it takes only
minimal measures to be easily seen. Small reflective patches on wrists
or shoes, or very small lights, made peds easily noticeable and
recognizeable a great distance away ( hundreds of yard, IIRC).

What worked best, BTW, was reflectors that showed "human walking"
motion, the characteristic swing of arms and legs. We're hard-wired to
notice that motion. This helps pedal reflectors work, I believe.

I rarely walk at night without a tiny flashlight.

- Frank Krygowski

  #17  
Old December 23rd 05, 11:16 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,rec.bicycles.misc
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Default Invisible Cyclists in Solstice Dark


"Eatmorepies" wrote in message
...

I ride in the countryside so I am quite easy to see because of the lack
of distracting light sources, if I was in a town I would be very nervous
of riding busy roads in the dark.


My experience on country lanes is that the greatest danger is being blinded
by oncoming traffic and losing the edge of the road. It is then easy to
veer either into the middle of the road or into the ditch.

Neither are good. On country lanes a light that says to the driver 'dip you
*******' is required.

In town a combination of something flashing and something reflecting seems
to work well.

T


  #18  
Old December 23rd 05, 11:57 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,rec.bicycles.misc
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Default Invisible Cyclists in Solstice Dark

in message et, Claire
Petersky ') wrote:

"Elisa Francesca Roselli" wrote in message
...

In the car, I really do get to notice what can and cannot be seen from
a motorist's point of view. And I am appalled to discover just how
hard it can be to see cyclists and pedestrians, and how few of them
seem to be aware of this.


Elisa, I've done this too -- while driving in the dark and passing a
pedestrian or a cyclist, made a note of what it is that I see first.
Usually it's some sort of reflective clothing.


Driving home recently, coming out of the streetlit area into the dark
with dipped headlights, slight river mist, I saw a /something/ ahead of
me which I didn't immediately interpret. There was a red light, not very
bright, and nothing else clear at all. Fortunately I assumed it to be
the nearside rear light of a car with a defective offside rear light,
and steered to pass it wide. I didn't see the pedal reflectors until I
was really quite close, and it was only when I'd seen them that I could
interpret from the blur an elderly man in dark clothing on a bike.

It was startling to me how close I was before I could interpret what I
was looking at, and had I not already been well out on the carriageway I
would have to have braked quite sharply. To be fair his light wasn't
very bright at all, and I think his pedal reflectors must have been
dirty, but it was still a surprise - I think myself very careful of
cyclists. Bright, blinking rear lights and retro-reflective trim on
clothing are definitely worth it.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; I'll have a proper rant later, when I get the time.
  #19  
Old December 23rd 05, 11:57 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,rec.bicycles.misc
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Default Invisible Cyclists in Solstice Dark


Tony W wrote:

My experience on country lanes is that the greatest danger is being blinded
by oncoming traffic and losing the edge of the road. It is then easy to
veer either into the middle of the road or into the ditch.


I figure that I can step sideways rapidly enough, so I head for the
dazzling lights whilst obviously shielding my eyes. That way I don't
fall in the ditch I now cannot see.

Works a treat up here.

On one occasion I stopped in teh middle of the road becasue I could not
see due to the twunt dazzling me. As it was a single track road and he
wasn't going very fast he had almost come to a halt before realising
why I wasn't moving. He dipped and then apologised. It is quite
civilised up here.

...d

  #20  
Old December 24th 05, 12:12 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling,rec.bicycles.misc
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Default Invisible Cyclists in Solstice Dark

in message . com,
') wrote:


Simon Mason wrote:
"Elisa Francesca Roselli" wrote in message
news:43abba84$0$20854

Much winter clothing is dark or black to begin with.


In defence of dark clothing - bright colours don't really work in the
dark. One of my colleagues looked at my dark silver jacket and asked
why I didn't have a yellow one on until I explained that the silver
was made of reflective material and therefore far more visible than
any bright colours.


Nonsense. Light/bright colours are much more visible than dark colours
when picked up by headlights or any other lights for that matter. Thats
what "light" or "bright" mean more or less i.e. more visible. DARK
CLOTHING IS WHAT YOU'D WEAR IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SEEN. Or are you
arguing that black is white?


Yes. All cats - even white ones - really are black in the night time, and
so are all jackets. On a dark night a person in a white or fluorescent
jacket is just as visible as a person in a black one - i.e. you might
see their silhouette against the sky if you're lucky but that's all
you'll see. In good moonlight the white jacket will be most visible, but
still only a very vague blur. Starlight alone is not normally enough for
human eyesight to tell black from white.

Fluorescent clothing is good in daytime poor light, because ultra-violet
penetrates mist and cloud much better than visible light, so on a dull
or foggy day fluorescent clothes look extra bright. But they're
completely useless at night since the moon reflects relatively little
ultra-violet.

Neither white nor fluorescent is anything like as good when illuminated
by headlights as retro-reflective, and when not illuminated each is
exactly as black as any of the others. If you do wear retro-reflectives,
piping along seams is particularly effective because it makes a visible
'stick man' image from which the observer can infer your position and
actions.

If you don't believe me, just ask any of your friends who goes hunting.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; "If I were a Microsoft Public Relations person, I would probably
;; be sobbing on a desk right now" -- Rob Miller, editor, /.

 




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