#11
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A hole in the stem
On 4/13/2019 1:00 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 1:30:53 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/12/2019 11:15 PM, Joy Beeson wrote: I don't recall whether my handlebars came with the Raleigh Carleton or the Fugi Grand Tourer -- we swapped components rather suddenly when a mechanic overhauling the Raleigh found a defect in the brake bridge that was above his pay grade. I don't think I ever knew whether the handlebars and stems were included in the swap; we just left both bikes with the mechanic. It says "GB" in a circle in a recessed diamond on the stem. Just above the point of the diamond, an adjusting barrel for the front brake cable is set in the top of a hole through the stem. I read somewhere that drilling a hole through the stem is a terrible, horrible idea, and it makes sense that one should avoid weakening such a vital component, but it's a tempting idea: It looks neater, it makes the path of the cable slightly smoother, and it makes the cable a more convenient place to hang my gloves. So as long as the hole is there I might as well use it, but the mechanic at the Trailhouse routes the cable around the stem, as if there were no hole. I'm going to have the bike overhauled pretty soon, and I'm thinking of telling him to use the hole -- but is there some *other* reason why routing a brale cable through the stem is a bad idea? The hole causes what's called "stress concentration." That means when there's a significant load on the stem, stresses will be higher in the area right around the hole than they would have been without the hole. Stress concentration is more of a problem for aluminum than for steel, for reasons I won't go into here (unless asked). But it's not necessarily a significant problem. Everyone accepts holes in aluminum hubs (to attach spokes). I have holes drilled in my aluminum frame to attach shift levers, bottle cages, etc. The problems arise only if the concentrated stresses are higher than what the metal can resist for the long term. I gather from your posts that you're probably not a person who does lots of high torque pedaling on sprints or tough climbs, where you're yanking hard on the handlebars. Those yanks would put torque on the stem and might generate some significant stress. But I doubt you'll see a problem. More significant, perhaps, is that the hole is already there. If you don't use the hole it doesn't improve the situation; it's still a stress concentration. So leaving the cable out of the hole seems silly to me. So I'd use it as intended. If you want to be super-diligent, check it once a month to see if any tiny cracks are emanating from it. If you want to be paranoid, replace the stem. -- - Frank Krygowski Her brake cable is already outside of the hole in the stem. Why should she have the housing shortened and all the work done to put the cable through the stem when braking won't be improved one iota but she'll have problems if in the future she wants to either raise or lower her stem? I read that as Frank being perplexed that a mechanic would set up the cable _not_ using the extant hole in the stem, 'silly' meaning the tech not the rider. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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#12
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A hole in the stem
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 3:14:20 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/13/2019 2:00 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 1:30:53 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/12/2019 11:15 PM, Joy Beeson wrote: I don't recall whether my handlebars came with the Raleigh Carleton or the Fugi Grand Tourer -- we swapped components rather suddenly when a mechanic overhauling the Raleigh found a defect in the brake bridge that was above his pay grade. I don't think I ever knew whether the handlebars and stems were included in the swap; we just left both bikes with the mechanic. It says "GB" in a circle in a recessed diamond on the stem. Just above the point of the diamond, an adjusting barrel for the front brake cable is set in the top of a hole through the stem. I read somewhere that drilling a hole through the stem is a terrible, horrible idea, and it makes sense that one should avoid weakening such a vital component, but it's a tempting idea: It looks neater, it makes the path of the cable slightly smoother, and it makes the cable a more convenient place to hang my gloves. So as long as the hole is there I might as well use it, but the mechanic at the Trailhouse routes the cable around the stem, as if there were no hole. I'm going to have the bike overhauled pretty soon, and I'm thinking of telling him to use the hole -- but is there some *other* reason why routing a brale cable through the stem is a bad idea? The hole causes what's called "stress concentration." That means when there's a significant load on the stem, stresses will be higher in the area right around the hole than they would have been without the hole. Stress concentration is more of a problem for aluminum than for steel, for reasons I won't go into here (unless asked). But it's not necessarily a significant problem. Everyone accepts holes in aluminum hubs (to attach spokes). I have holes drilled in my aluminum frame to attach shift levers, bottle cages, etc. The problems arise only if the concentrated stresses are higher than what the metal can resist for the long term. I gather from your posts that you're probably not a person who does lots of high torque pedaling on sprints or tough climbs, where you're yanking hard on the handlebars. Those yanks would put torque on the stem and might generate some significant stress. But I doubt you'll see a problem. More significant, perhaps, is that the hole is already there. If you don't use the hole it doesn't improve the situation; it's still a stress concentration. So leaving the cable out of the hole seems silly to me. So I'd use it as intended. If you want to be super-diligent, check it once a month to see if any tiny cracks are emanating from it. If you want to be paranoid, replace the stem. -- - Frank Krygowski Her brake cable is already outside of the hole in the stem. Why should she have the housing shortened and all the work done to put the cable through the stem when braking won't be improved one iota but she'll have problems if in the future she wants to either raise or lower her stem? Because, as Joy said: "it's a tempting idea: It looks neater, it makes the path of the cable slightly smoother, and it makes the cable a more convenient place to hang my gloves." If she likes it, she should do it. -- - Frank Krygowski I just looked at my MTB that has a hole in the stem and my cable is on the outside of the stem. To me it looks better and the curve is not as severe. Maybe it's because I use less cable? Cheers |
#13
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A hole in the stem
On 4/13/2019 5:20 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 3:14:20 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/13/2019 2:00 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 1:30:53 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/12/2019 11:15 PM, Joy Beeson wrote: I don't recall whether my handlebars came with the Raleigh Carleton or the Fugi Grand Tourer -- we swapped components rather suddenly when a mechanic overhauling the Raleigh found a defect in the brake bridge that was above his pay grade. I don't think I ever knew whether the handlebars and stems were included in the swap; we just left both bikes with the mechanic. It says "GB" in a circle in a recessed diamond on the stem. Just above the point of the diamond, an adjusting barrel for the front brake cable is set in the top of a hole through the stem. I read somewhere that drilling a hole through the stem is a terrible, horrible idea, and it makes sense that one should avoid weakening such a vital component, but it's a tempting idea: It looks neater, it makes the path of the cable slightly smoother, and it makes the cable a more convenient place to hang my gloves. So as long as the hole is there I might as well use it, but the mechanic at the Trailhouse routes the cable around the stem, as if there were no hole. I'm going to have the bike overhauled pretty soon, and I'm thinking of telling him to use the hole -- but is there some *other* reason why routing a brale cable through the stem is a bad idea? The hole causes what's called "stress concentration." That means when there's a significant load on the stem, stresses will be higher in the area right around the hole than they would have been without the hole. Stress concentration is more of a problem for aluminum than for steel, for reasons I won't go into here (unless asked). But it's not necessarily a significant problem. Everyone accepts holes in aluminum hubs (to attach spokes). I have holes drilled in my aluminum frame to attach shift levers, bottle cages, etc. The problems arise only if the concentrated stresses are higher than what the metal can resist for the long term. I gather from your posts that you're probably not a person who does lots of high torque pedaling on sprints or tough climbs, where you're yanking hard on the handlebars. Those yanks would put torque on the stem and might generate some significant stress. But I doubt you'll see a problem. More significant, perhaps, is that the hole is already there. If you don't use the hole it doesn't improve the situation; it's still a stress concentration. So leaving the cable out of the hole seems silly to me. So I'd use it as intended. If you want to be super-diligent, check it once a month to see if any tiny cracks are emanating from it. If you want to be paranoid, replace the stem. -- - Frank Krygowski Her brake cable is already outside of the hole in the stem. Why should she have the housing shortened and all the work done to put the cable through the stem when braking won't be improved one iota but she'll have problems if in the future she wants to either raise or lower her stem? Because, as Joy said: "it's a tempting idea: It looks neater, it makes the path of the cable slightly smoother, and it makes the cable a more convenient place to hang my gloves." If she likes it, she should do it. -- - Frank Krygowski I just looked at my MTB that has a hole in the stem and my cable is on the outside of the stem. To me it looks better and the curve is not as severe. Maybe it's because I use less cable? Well, "looks better" is individual choice. Severity of the curve would depend on other details, I suppose. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#14
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A hole in the stem
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 5:28:30 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/13/2019 5:20 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 3:14:20 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/13/2019 2:00 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 1:30:53 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/12/2019 11:15 PM, Joy Beeson wrote: I don't recall whether my handlebars came with the Raleigh Carleton or the Fugi Grand Tourer -- we swapped components rather suddenly when a mechanic overhauling the Raleigh found a defect in the brake bridge that was above his pay grade. I don't think I ever knew whether the handlebars and stems were included in the swap; we just left both bikes with the mechanic. It says "GB" in a circle in a recessed diamond on the stem. Just above the point of the diamond, an adjusting barrel for the front brake cable is set in the top of a hole through the stem. I read somewhere that drilling a hole through the stem is a terrible, horrible idea, and it makes sense that one should avoid weakening such a vital component, but it's a tempting idea: It looks neater, it makes the path of the cable slightly smoother, and it makes the cable a more convenient place to hang my gloves. So as long as the hole is there I might as well use it, but the mechanic at the Trailhouse routes the cable around the stem, as if there were no hole. I'm going to have the bike overhauled pretty soon, and I'm thinking of telling him to use the hole -- but is there some *other* reason why routing a brale cable through the stem is a bad idea? The hole causes what's called "stress concentration." That means when there's a significant load on the stem, stresses will be higher in the area right around the hole than they would have been without the hole. Stress concentration is more of a problem for aluminum than for steel, for reasons I won't go into here (unless asked). But it's not necessarily a significant problem. Everyone accepts holes in aluminum hubs (to attach spokes). I have holes drilled in my aluminum frame to attach shift levers, bottle cages, etc. The problems arise only if the concentrated stresses are higher than what the metal can resist for the long term. I gather from your posts that you're probably not a person who does lots of high torque pedaling on sprints or tough climbs, where you're yanking hard on the handlebars. Those yanks would put torque on the stem and might generate some significant stress. But I doubt you'll see a problem. More significant, perhaps, is that the hole is already there. If you don't use the hole it doesn't improve the situation; it's still a stress concentration. So leaving the cable out of the hole seems silly to me. So I'd use it as intended. If you want to be super-diligent, check it once a month to see if any tiny cracks are emanating from it. If you want to be paranoid, replace the stem. -- - Frank Krygowski Her brake cable is already outside of the hole in the stem. Why should she have the housing shortened and all the work done to put the cable through the stem when braking won't be improved one iota but she'll have problems if in the future she wants to either raise or lower her stem? Because, as Joy said: "it's a tempting idea: It looks neater, it makes the path of the cable slightly smoother, and it makes the cable a more convenient place to hang my gloves." If she likes it, she should do it. -- - Frank Krygowski I just looked at my MTB that has a hole in the stem and my cable is on the outside of the stem. To me it looks better and the curve is not as severe. Maybe it's because I use less cable? Well, "looks better" is individual choice. Severity of the curve would depend on other details, I suppose. -- - Frank Krygowski Such as height of stem. LOL Cheers |
#15
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A hole in the stem
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 09:17:34 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 9:32:09 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: On 4/13/2019 5:58 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: Snipped If you want to raise or lower a stem with a hole in it to which the front brake cable is anchored then you'd have to adjust the brakes too as lower the stem will move the pads away from the rim and raising the stem will move the pads closer to the rim. Back when that was the standard setup on MTBs, we saw that as a feature, not a problem. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Until you go to raise that stem and it causes the brake pads to bind against the rim. I remember having that happen a lot on those MTBs that had the hole in the stem with the brake cable going through it. Cheers Does one raise and lower the handle bars frequently on a MTB? On a road bike once I have the bike set up to be comfortable I probably don't change anything, seat height, fore and fat seat position, handle bar angle or height, etc., for years.. -- cheers, John B. |
#16
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A hole in the stem
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 17:28:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 4/13/2019 5:20 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 3:14:20 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/13/2019 2:00 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 1:30:53 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/12/2019 11:15 PM, Joy Beeson wrote: I don't recall whether my handlebars came with the Raleigh Carleton or the Fugi Grand Tourer -- we swapped components rather suddenly when a mechanic overhauling the Raleigh found a defect in the brake bridge that was above his pay grade. I don't think I ever knew whether the handlebars and stems were included in the swap; we just left both bikes with the mechanic. It says "GB" in a circle in a recessed diamond on the stem. Just above the point of the diamond, an adjusting barrel for the front brake cable is set in the top of a hole through the stem. I read somewhere that drilling a hole through the stem is a terrible, horrible idea, and it makes sense that one should avoid weakening such a vital component, but it's a tempting idea: It looks neater, it makes the path of the cable slightly smoother, and it makes the cable a more convenient place to hang my gloves. So as long as the hole is there I might as well use it, but the mechanic at the Trailhouse routes the cable around the stem, as if there were no hole. I'm going to have the bike overhauled pretty soon, and I'm thinking of telling him to use the hole -- but is there some *other* reason why routing a brale cable through the stem is a bad idea? The hole causes what's called "stress concentration." That means when there's a significant load on the stem, stresses will be higher in the area right around the hole than they would have been without the hole. Stress concentration is more of a problem for aluminum than for steel, for reasons I won't go into here (unless asked). But it's not necessarily a significant problem. Everyone accepts holes in aluminum hubs (to attach spokes). I have holes drilled in my aluminum frame to attach shift levers, bottle cages, etc. The problems arise only if the concentrated stresses are higher than what the metal can resist for the long term. I gather from your posts that you're probably not a person who does lots of high torque pedaling on sprints or tough climbs, where you're yanking hard on the handlebars. Those yanks would put torque on the stem and might generate some significant stress. But I doubt you'll see a problem. More significant, perhaps, is that the hole is already there. If you don't use the hole it doesn't improve the situation; it's still a stress concentration. So leaving the cable out of the hole seems silly to me. So I'd use it as intended. If you want to be super-diligent, check it once a month to see if any tiny cracks are emanating from it. If you want to be paranoid, replace the stem. -- - Frank Krygowski Her brake cable is already outside of the hole in the stem. Why should she have the housing shortened and all the work done to put the cable through the stem when braking won't be improved one iota but she'll have problems if in the future she wants to either raise or lower her stem? Because, as Joy said: "it's a tempting idea: It looks neater, it makes the path of the cable slightly smoother, and it makes the cable a more convenient place to hang my gloves." If she likes it, she should do it. -- - Frank Krygowski I just looked at my MTB that has a hole in the stem and my cable is on the outside of the stem. To me it looks better and the curve is not as severe. Maybe it's because I use less cable? Well, "looks better" is individual choice. Severity of the curve would depend on other details, I suppose. If you are using "brifters" than under the bar wrapping seems to work best. If good old fashioned brake levers than probably the hole in the stem would work as well as the cable stop that mounts under the front tube bearing stop nut, or one that clamps to the stem (shank?) -- cheers, John B. |
#17
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A hole in the stem
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 9:09:44 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 09:17:34 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 9:32:09 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: On 4/13/2019 5:58 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: Snipped If you want to raise or lower a stem with a hole in it to which the front brake cable is anchored then you'd have to adjust the brakes too as lower the stem will move the pads away from the rim and raising the stem will move the pads closer to the rim. Back when that was the standard setup on MTBs, we saw that as a feature, not a problem. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Until you go to raise that stem and it causes the brake pads to bind against the rim. I remember having that happen a lot on those MTBs that had the hole in the stem with the brake cable going through it. Cheers Does one raise and lower the handle bars frequently on a MTB? On a road bike once I have the bike set up to be comfortable I probably don't change anything, seat height, fore and fat seat position, handle bar angle or height, etc., for years.. -- cheers, John B. I sometimes change the height of my MTB stem depending on the terrain I'm riding or how much gear/weight I'm carrying. Actually, what I have on my MTB gravel/logging road touring bike with drop bars is a quill adjustable stem.. I set the cables with the stem at the highest point I'd use it and that way I don't have to worry about rubbing brake pads if I raise the stem. I like a more upright position when riding loose surfaces and then lower the stem if I'm doing a lot of distance on pavement. I often have both on my Northern Ontario Canada tours. I ride the pavement to and from the gravel/mining roads I'll be touring and then adjust the stem for the best fit once I'm on the gravel. Cheers |
#18
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A hole in the stem
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 18:34:53 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 9:09:44 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 09:17:34 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 9:32:09 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: On 4/13/2019 5:58 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: Snipped If you want to raise or lower a stem with a hole in it to which the front brake cable is anchored then you'd have to adjust the brakes too as lower the stem will move the pads away from the rim and raising the stem will move the pads closer to the rim. Back when that was the standard setup on MTBs, we saw that as a feature, not a problem. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Until you go to raise that stem and it causes the brake pads to bind against the rim. I remember having that happen a lot on those MTBs that had the hole in the stem with the brake cable going through it. Cheers Does one raise and lower the handle bars frequently on a MTB? On a road bike once I have the bike set up to be comfortable I probably don't change anything, seat height, fore and fat seat position, handle bar angle or height, etc., for years.. -- cheers, John B. I sometimes change the height of my MTB stem depending on the terrain I'm riding or how much gear/weight I'm carrying. Actually, what I have on my MTB gravel/logging road touring bike with drop bars is a quill adjustable stem. I set the cables with the stem at the highest point I'd use it and that way I don't have to worry about rubbing brake pads if I raise the stem. I like a more upright position when riding loose surfaces and then lower the stem if I'm doing a lot of distance on pavement. I often have both on my Northern Ontario Canada tours. I ride the pavement to and from the gravel/mining roads I'll be touring and then adjust the stem for the best fit once I'm on the gravel. Well then having a cable stop mounted on the stem could involve frequent brake adjustments :-) Perhaps a cable stop mounted on head tube bearing lock like road bikes used to have... except an MTP probably doesn't have a head tube bearing adjusting lock nut. Or, just use vee brakes and forget the whole cable stop question :-) Cheers -- cheers, John B. |
#19
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A hole in the stem
On 14/04/2019 03:09, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 09:17:34 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 9:32:09 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: On 4/13/2019 5:58 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: Snipped If you want to raise or lower a stem with a hole in it to which the front brake cable is anchored then you'd have to adjust the brakes too as lower the stem will move the pads away from the rim and raising the stem will move the pads closer to the rim. Back when that was the standard setup on MTBs, we saw that as a feature, not a problem. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Until you go to raise that stem and it causes the brake pads to bind against the rim. I remember having that happen a lot on those MTBs that had the hole in the stem with the brake cable going through it. Cheers Does one raise and lower the handle bars frequently on a MTB? On a road bike once I have the bike set up to be comfortable I probably don't change anything, seat height, fore and fat seat position, handle bar angle or height, etc., for years.. Dropper stems :-) Btw, sig-sep broken? --space |
#20
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A hole in the stem
On Sun, 14 Apr 2019 10:41:21 +0200, Tosspot
wrote: On 14/04/2019 03:09, John B. wrote: On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 09:17:34 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 9:32:09 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: On 4/13/2019 5:58 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: Snipped If you want to raise or lower a stem with a hole in it to which the front brake cable is anchored then you'd have to adjust the brakes too as lower the stem will move the pads away from the rim and raising the stem will move the pads closer to the rim. Back when that was the standard setup on MTBs, we saw that as a feature, not a problem. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Until you go to raise that stem and it causes the brake pads to bind against the rim. I remember having that happen a lot on those MTBs that had the hole in the stem with the brake cable going through it. Cheers Does one raise and lower the handle bars frequently on a MTB? On a road bike once I have the bike set up to be comfortable I probably don't change anything, seat height, fore and fat seat position, handle bar angle or height, etc., for years.. Dropper stems :-) Btw, sig-sep broken? --space "Fore and fat" should have been written "fore and aft" :-) -- cheers, John B. |
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