If Johnny Cochran Was Still Here...

Doug Taylor wrote:
On Fri, 25 May 2007 16:57:11 GMT, Bob Schwartz
wrote:


Dumbass,

I think he did it. What I don't think is that the test
performed by the lab proves he did it.

As bjw has pointed out many times, even guilty people
can be framed. If the test is not valid, even if he
totally ****ing did it, there is no proof that he did
it. That is something that you seem to be totally
unable to grasp.

If he totally ****ing did it - which is as obvious from the miraculous
performance and his inability to convincingly explain the test
results, even assuming your assertion that the test was invalid (which
is b.s.) - then he totally should ****ing admit it.

Instead, he hires slick lawyers TO GET HIM OFF, assassinating the
characters of innocent people in the process.

That is what sucks.

He is a guilty person milking the system, throwing anyone is his way
under the bus.

He is NOT an innocent person trying to prove his innocence.

That is something that you seem to be totally unable to grasp.

Wow. You're moving into Lafferty territory here. That's not
a good thing. You've convicted him on nothing more than an
intense personal dislike.

I gave up getting into it with whack jobs a long time ago.
First Kunich, then Lafferty. Now you.

Bob Schwartz

On Sat, 26 May 2007 16:43:18 GMT, Bob Schwartz
wrote:


He is a guilty person milking the system, throwing anyone is his way
under the bus.

He is NOT an innocent person trying to prove his innocence.

That is something that you seem to be totally unable to grasp.

Wow. You're moving into Lafferty territory here. That's not
a good thing. You've convicted him on nothing more than an
intense personal dislike.

I gave up getting into it with whack jobs a long time ago.
First Kunich, then Lafferty. Now you.

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/12315.0.html

Deal with it

On May 26, 4:32 pm, Doug Taylor wrote:
On Sat, 26 May 2007 16:43:18 GMT, Bob Schwartz

wrote:
He is a guilty person milking the system, throwing anyone is his way
under the bus.

He is NOT an innocent person trying to prove his innocence.

That is something that you seem to be totally unable to grasp.

Wow. You're moving into Lafferty territory here. That's not
a good thing. You've convicted him on nothing more than an
intense personal dislike.

I gave up getting into it with whack jobs a long time ago.
First Kunich, then Lafferty. Now you.

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/12315.0.html

Deal with it

How's your FFA, Future Fascists of America, career coming. Have you
gotten around to applying for the racial profiling division of
Gonzales' "Justice??" dept? We all know the *******s are all guilty,
and I'm sure you could produce some confessions and stats to prove we
should lock 'em all up in camps and only let out those who can
"prove", to your satisfaction they are innocent.
It's alittle more work to have to invent the evidence, but Hey if
that's what it takes to get those *******s you just KNOW are guilty,
then so be it, right?
Bill C

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/12315.0.html

Deal with it

How's your FFA, Future Fascists of America, career coming. Have you
gotten around to applying for the racial profiling division of
Gonzales' "Justice??" dept? We all know the *******s are all guilty,
and I'm sure you could produce some confessions and stats to prove we
should lock 'em all up in camps and only let out those who can
"prove", to your satisfaction they are innocent.
It's alittle more work to have to invent the evidence, but Hey if
that's what it takes to get those *******s you just KNOW are guilty,
then so be it, right?

You're in la al land.

Cheating in athletics has NOTHING to do with: a) the criminal justice
system and/or the U.S. Constitution; and b) politics.

The rules against cheating are private according to the sport; they
are not public. The penalty for a cheat is suspension, not
incarceration.

That reactions to cheating have nothing to do with politics is clear
from the fact that real and true usenet neocon Jesus Freak fascists,
such as Kunich and Hickey - agree with YOU and support Landis.
Explain that, brainiac.

What cheating does have to do with are old school concepts such as
honor and integrity.

The only integrity I see in Landis case is that he adheres to the code
of silence and doesn't rat out other cheats. Honor among thieves.
Great. I'm SO impressed. That is what perpetuates the problem. So,
throw Lemond and lab technicians under the bus so you can get off and
retain your stolen Yellow Jersey.

But whatever. People like Schwartz take the position that although
Landis is obviously guilty, he has every right to challenge the
testing and do what he is doing within the system to protect his
career. It is impossible to argue against that; I have to concede the
point.

But I am saying is that obviously guilty and self centered schmucks
like Landis and O.J. deserve no respect for beating their respective
systems, and GETTING AWAY WITH IT.

Meanwhile, riders with the status of Riis and Zabel are coming clean
in droves. Yeah, a little late, but better late than never.

So, the honor and integrity apparently are not quite dead and might
just see a resurgence. We'll see. But Landis will always be a
schmuck

Dans le message de ,
Doug Taylor a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

The rules against cheating are private according to the sport; they
are not public. The penalty for a cheat is suspension, not
incarceration.

That reactions to cheating have nothing to do with politics

I wrote this before, but it seems worth repeating, here :

"The International Olympic Committee has, for a long time, focused on
pharmaceutical cheating. It is popular knowledge that sports were a major
propaganda instrument for the Old World Order of Iron Curtain days.
Reasonable belief held that athletes of communist countries were achieving
victories based on chemistry. This was a carryover of the policy of
fighting [no, not a Godwin point] Hitler, who sought to prove that the aryan
race has inherent superiority, again a propaganda matter.

So, with the "free" world taking the lead, a culture of inquisition arose to
challenge the wins of those bad people. In consequence, a moralizing
economic interest group - doping specialists - snowballed their specialty
into a sky-is-falling crusade, and by relying on ancient fears of domination
by slavs and asians, moved the process onward, lobbied against what was
presented as national systemic cheating, and asked the awkward question :
"Does your nation support pumping drugs into people to gain the rewards that
should fall to those who use their natural ability and personal dedication
to reach the same levels of competitiveness ?" Tough to answer "yes".
--
Sandy
-
"Our knowledge is a little island in a great ocean of non-knowledge."
- Edward O. Wilson"

Doug Taylor wrote:
But whatever. People like Schwartz take the position that although
Landis is obviously guilty, he has every right to challenge the
testing and do what he is doing within the system to protect his
career. It is impossible to argue against that; I have to concede the
point.

Dumbass,

You've been arguing passionately against that. Your position has
consistently been to wipe your ass with Due Process brand toilet
paper.

Just wanted to point that out.

You know, Lafferty-ism has a few distinct characteristics:
- Intense and irrational dislike of a Tour de France winner
based on an emotional attachment to something of no personal
importance.
- An inability to let an argument drop without getting in
the last word. Dumbass.

Bob Schwartz

On May 27, 9:02 am, Doug Taylor wrote:

But I am saying is that obviously guilty and self centered schmucks
like Landis and O.J. deserve no respect for beating their respective
systems, and GETTING AWAY WITH IT.

You're equating brutal murders with cheating at bike racing... Yeah,
sure. They're IDENTICAL situations. I should have seen it myself.

In case you're such a "self centered schmuck", that you can't
differentiate between the two, here's the clue.
One is a moral outrage that violates every creed and belief system.
The other is a bike race.

Righteous indignation is almost a lost art in this day and age. No
one gets worked up over nothing anymore. Maybe you should post over
on alt.oj.did.it and really work up a good head of steam.

R

On May 27, 9:02 am, Doug Taylor wrote:
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/12315.0.html

Deal with it

How's your FFA, Future Fascists of America, career coming. Have you
gotten around to applying for the racial profiling division of
Gonzales' "Justice??" dept? We all know the *******s are all guilty,
and I'm sure you could produce some confessions and stats to prove we
should lock 'em all up in camps and only let out those who can
"prove", to your satisfaction they are innocent.
It's alittle more work to have to invent the evidence, but Hey if
that's what it takes to get those *******s you just KNOW are guilty,
then so be it, right?

You're in la al land.

Fair and just due process is just that, and should be accorded to
everyone in all cases, not just serious criminal cases. If not then
you whip out the stats that say minorities are involved with more
criminal violations than their percentage of the population would
warrant and use that to discriminate against them.
You seem to feel that, just because, doping is widespread that,
somehow, excuses them from being treated justly and properly.
Where do you apply actual justice, misdemeanors, minor felonies, DUI,
drug posession? Where on your scale do you start actually treating
people fairly and properly?
Bill C

Cheating in athletics has NOTHING to do with: a) the criminal justice
system and/or the U.S. Constitution; and b) politics.

The rules against cheating are private according to the sport; they
are not public. The penalty for a cheat is suspension, not
incarceration.

That reactions to cheating have nothing to do with politics is clear
from the fact that real and true usenet neocon Jesus Freak fascists,
such as Kunich and Hickey - agree with YOU and support Landis.
Explain that, brainiac.

What cheating does have to do with are old school concepts such as
honor and integrity.

The only integrity I see in Landis case is that he adheres to the code
of silence and doesn't rat out other cheats. Honor among thieves.
Great. I'm SO impressed. That is what perpetuates the problem. So,
throw Lemond and lab technicians under the bus so you can get off and
retain your stolen Yellow Jersey.

But whatever. People like Schwartz take the position that although
Landis is obviously guilty, he has every right to challenge the
testing and do what he is doing within the system to protect his
career. It is impossible to argue against that; I have to concede the
point.

But I am saying is that obviously guilty and self centered schmucks
like Landis and O.J. deserve no respect for beating their respective
systems, and GETTING AWAY WITH IT.

Meanwhile, riders with the status of Riis and Zabel are coming clean
in droves. Yeah, a little late, but better late than never.

So, the honor and integrity apparently are not quite dead and might
just see a resurgence. We'll see. But Landis will always be a
schmuck

On 27 May 2007 10:24:14 -0700, Bill C wrote:

Fair and just due process is just that, and should be accorded to
everyone in all cases, not just serious criminal cases.

Well, dude, good thing you are just another nerd posting on usenet and
not a competing in the NFL, which has one of the more successful and
acclaimed anti-performance enhancing drug policies.

Again, unlike the criminal justice system, where the concept of due
process is key in any free or enlightened society, the NFL is strictly
private: they can do whatever they want, subject to acceptance by the
player's union.

All players in the League are tested once a year, and are subject to
weekly random tests during the pre-season, season, and post season.
If a player refuses a test or tests positive, bingo, GUILTY. No
Johnny Cochran calling the procedure or the science into question. No
circus. No assassination of the character of witnesses. The player
is immediately subject to sanctions; although they have the right of
appeal to the NFL commissioner. Lots of luck, there.

"Fair and just due process?" Who cares? It's PRIVATE and totally
their call. And, the system arguably is more successful preventing
performance enhancing drug use than any other US Pro sport, or any
sport.

Good for them, I say. Better for the players, the owners, AND the
fans.

On May 27, 9:02 am, Doug Taylor wrote:


You're in la al land.

Cheating in athletics has NOTHING to do with: a) the criminal justice
system and/or the U.S. Constitution; and b) politics.

The rules against cheating are private according to the sport; they
are not public. The penalty for a cheat is suspension, not
incarceration.


dumbass,

that's correct. cycling made the mistake of going down that stupid
path instead of handling the problem like one would handle an internal
matter in a well run business.