Commentary: Cleared or not, Landis is a loser

On May 25, 8:57 am, "Sandy" wrote:
Caroline a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

So he was too damned stupid to think, "Man, something's gotta be
wrong with my training program..."

The bottom line here, in my opinion, is that doping could NOT get to
where it is today through athletes alone. Now, are there lazy people
who want to win the Tour without working? You betcha! And there
always will be. But I don't know of any doping shops where you have
to show your UCI or USCF or whatever federation license in order to
buy their goods. And I do know cyclists who were pushed into it by
their team's trainers and coaches. Once a trainer or a coach is
proven to have promoted or assisted or facilitated doping, that
person should be banned from the sport for life.
Caroline

Are you occasionally beset by a forgiveness and remediation mode, or is this
you more or less always ?

I hope you're not going to draw inferences from the all-too-frequent
reports of holier-than-thou types imploding with gay hookers and
crystal meth. If Caroline were caught with a gay hooker and crystal
meth, I'm sure it would be simply innocent, possibly sexless,
experimentation and confusion that "rock" and "crystal" were referring
to jewelry.

R

Sandy wrote:
Being slightly more modern and solitary, Landis said at the hearing that he
was curious and looked up drugs on the internet. Really!

I think I should look up making love on the Internet.

On May 25, 8:50 am, "Caroline" wrote:

Once
a trainer or a coach is proven to have promoted or assisted or facilitated
doping, that person should be banned from the sport for life.

Riders are readily admitting that they have sought out doping to get
better or as their only means to stay in the sport. It's not like the
old scenario where they unquestioningly take what the trainer gives
them.

Aldag's quote implies he was part of a genesis of organized doping in
Telekom.

There are facilitators in the sport, but Aldag goes on to say he
bought EPO online, the UCI can't stop what gets sold online.

Someone like Dr. Fuesntes is only loosely connected with cycling and
isn't governed by the rules of cycling.

The riders that dope are back in the sport after their suspension
(Millar, Hamilton, Heras,...), but the other team personnel don't get
a second chance (Voet, Roussel, Saiz), so non-riders associated with
doping are effectively banned for life.

On Fri, 25 May 2007 12:50:27 GMT, "Caroline" wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...
On May 25, 5:34 am, "Caroline" wrote:

I hate what the directeurs sportif and trainers have done to cycling with
their doping. I have known cyclists who were doped without their knowing
it
because the team honchos came to them with "vitamins" they needed. All
of
the cycling governing agencies are going after the wrong people when they
go
after the athletes.


dumbass,

that babe in the woods act is bull****.

this is aldag's quote :

"About four of us sat on the curb during one of the Grand Tours,"
began Aldag, referring to his 1994 season. "We had been totally
dropped and couldn't keep up. What could we do? I started thinking
about doping and asked around."



So he was too damned stupid to think, "Man, something's gotta be wrong with
my training program..."

The bottom line here, in my opinion, is that doping could NOT get to where
it is today through athletes alone. Now, are there lazy people who want to
win the Tour without working? You betcha! And there always will be.

Dumbass,
Nobody, that's NOBODY!!!!! ever won or even finished, or hell even entered a
modern grand tour without working like a whipped dog for tens of thousands of
miles. There is no dope that lets a lazy person finish a tour, nevermind win
one.

This is probably what confuses the issue most and feeds the perverse moralistic
posturing, the idiotic idea that dope makes it easy. Dope does NOT make it easy,
it just makes it possible to work that much harder and still recover.

Laziness has got nothing whatever to do with it. Okay, maybe at the lowest level
of the sport but nowhere near the grand tour level.

I know you are discounting that aspect , I read well enough to get that point.
But please, let's just throw this whole "lazy" concept out. There are enough
people who think it's all a question of who takes more dope - and what matters
is who works hardest and most effectively. THe dope just makes another level
possible.

But I
don't know of any doping shops where you have to show your UCI or USCF or
whatever federation license in order to buy their goods. And I do know
cyclists who were pushed into it by their team's trainers and coaches. Once
a trainer or a coach is proven to have promoted or assisted or facilitated
doping, that person should be banned from the sport for life.

That should be looked at, and hard. I'll agree that side deserves as much or
more attention as the riders. And as a bonus, the average soigneur makes so
little he can't fight it like a star rider.

Ron

RonSonic wrote:
Not only do they not cover up, they wallow in it. Sort of joining this weird
confessional fad by proxy. McQuade didn't dope but he wants to stand up and cry
as he confesses like all the cool kids.

Must be a catholic thing. Perhaps they'll all be counting chain links
instead of rosary beads.

Come to think of it, perhaps the priests know more about the current
situation than the team managers, UCI and WADA put together.

OTOH perhaps the moslems get free EPO in paradise along with their virgins
to give them a bit more endurance.

Dans le message de . com,
Donald Munro a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
Sandy wrote:
Being slightly more modern and solitary, Landis said at the hearing
that he was curious and looked up drugs on the internet. Really!

I think I should look up making love on the Internet.

First time is not usually the best, Don - be careful and don't be
disappointed.

"Sandy" wrote in message
...
Dans le message de news:nYA5i.8476$TU1.2500@trnddc07,
Caroline a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 25, 5:34 am, "Caroline" wrote:

I hate what the directeurs sportif and trainers have done to
cycling with their doping. I have known cyclists who were doped
without their knowing it
because the team honchos came to them with "vitamins" they needed. All
of
the cycling governing agencies are going after the wrong people
when they go
after the athletes.


dumbass,

that babe in the woods act is bull****.

this is aldag's quote :

"About four of us sat on the curb during one of the Grand Tours,"
began Aldag, referring to his 1994 season. "We had been totally
dropped and couldn't keep up. What could we do? I started thinking
about doping and asked around."



So he was too damned stupid to think, "Man, something's gotta be
wrong with my training program..."

The bottom line here, in my opinion, is that doping could NOT get to
where it is today through athletes alone. Now, are there lazy people
who want to win the Tour without working? You betcha! And there
always will be. But I don't know of any doping shops where you have
to show your UCI or USCF or whatever federation license in order to
buy their goods. And I do know cyclists who were pushed into it by
their team's trainers and coaches. Once a trainer or a coach is
proven to have promoted or assisted or facilitated doping, that
person should be banned from the sport for life.
Caroline

Are you occasionally beset by a forgiveness and remediation mode, or is
this you more or less always ?


LOL! You're cute. No, I'm a mean bitch who rides a broom and chases down
Cat 5s for drafting on road ref vehicles! '-(

Seriously, I love the sport. I'll be having nine or ten guys spend the
weekend here for the criterium races in the DFW area this weekend. So
SOMETIMES I'm one of the good guys....

But!!!

Name ONE team director, administrator, trainer, physician, whatever, who has
had sanctions placed against him or who has been banned from the sport.
Guys today who think about doping and wonder if it can improve their
performance are extremely late comers to the game! Which is WHY they know
about it. For the years that doping -- drugs, blood boosting, whatever --
has been around, it's always the athletes who are punished. With very few
exceptions, there aren't a whole lot of riders who know how to get into this
stuff without help. At the elite levels, Cat 1s through Pro ranks, my
observation is that they get the stuff through team connecctions. So how
come the axe always falls on the athlete's neck? It is my observation that
you guys at the elite level are treated like a commodity. If "they" can
enhance your performance with doping and you get caught, YOU get punished,
but there are a lot more new riders coming up through the ranks. I don't
think that's the way things should be done. That's all. Feel free to
disagree.

Caroline

Caroline wrote:
"Sandy" wrote in message
...
Dans le message de news:nYA5i.8476$TU1.2500@trnddc07,
Caroline a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 25, 5:34 am, "Caroline" wrote:

I hate what the directeurs sportif and trainers have done to
cycling with their doping. I have known cyclists who were doped
without their knowing it
because the team honchos came to them with "vitamins" they needed. All
of
the cycling governing agencies are going after the wrong people
when they go
after the athletes.

dumbass,

that babe in the woods act is bull****.

this is aldag's quote :

"About four of us sat on the curb during one of the Grand Tours,"
began Aldag, referring to his 1994 season. "We had been totally
dropped and couldn't keep up. What could we do? I started thinking
about doping and asked around."


So he was too damned stupid to think, "Man, something's gotta be
wrong with my training program..."

The bottom line here, in my opinion, is that doping could NOT get to
where it is today through athletes alone. Now, are there lazy people
who want to win the Tour without working? You betcha! And there
always will be. But I don't know of any doping shops where you have
to show your UCI or USCF or whatever federation license in order to
buy their goods. And I do know cyclists who were pushed into it by
their team's trainers and coaches. Once a trainer or a coach is
proven to have promoted or assisted or facilitated doping, that
person should be banned from the sport for life.
Caroline
Are you occasionally beset by a forgiveness and remediation mode, or is
this you more or less always ?


LOL! You're cute. No, I'm a mean bitch who rides a broom and chases down
Cat 5s for drafting on road ref vehicles! '-(

Seriously, I love the sport. I'll be having nine or ten guys spend the
weekend here for the criterium races in the DFW area this weekend. So
SOMETIMES I'm one of the good guys....

But!!!

Name ONE team director, administrator, trainer, physician, whatever, who has
had sanctions placed against him or who has been banned from the sport.

Manolo Saez

Caroline wrote:
LOL! You're cute. No, I'm a mean bitch who rides a broom and chases down
Cat 5s for drafting on road ref vehicles! '-(

Hopefully its a carbon fibre broom.

wrote:
that babe in the woods act is bull****.

this is aldag's quote :

"About four of us sat on the curb during one of the Grand Tours,"
began Aldag, referring to his 1994 season. "We had been totally
dropped and couldn't keep up. What could we do? I started thinking
about doping and asked around."

So what if Aldag et al had decided not to do what everyone else was doing
? They'd have lost their contracts at the end of the season and would have
been replaced by neo-pros or amateurs who were taking. It may seem easy
for you to condemn from your ivory tower, but it was their careers not
just a fatty master saturday criterium.