Your Chance to HELP Cyclists!

Hi all,

I’m new to this group, but have been a ‘lurking’ for a while.

I live in Denmead, Hampshire and have become very concerned about some
traffic calming measures being proposed by Hampshire County Council
(HCC). The proposals include eight pedestrian refuges that will reduce
the carriage way to less than 3.1m. From all the best practice and
research I can find, gaps of 3m may be acceptable where the speed limit
is below 30MPH and the traffic is light. The road in question is subject
to heavy traffic and subject to a 30MPH limit.

I’m in communication with HCC about the matter but they seem set on
building these refuges, as early as August this year. I have presented
them with the best practice documents and advice, offered alternatives,
got endorsement from my MP Mark Oaten), backing from Sustrans and CTC,
but they seem hell bent on going ahead, and I’m at a loss on what I can
do now.

I’ve knocked up a quick website with a photograph for you to see:

http://denmead.netfirms.com/

I’ve also created an online petition that I’d really like you to sign
and pass around your contacts / groups, etc.

http://www.petitiononline.com/denmead/petition.html

(If you use a real e-mail address, you’ll get one e-mail confirming that
you’ve voted, and won’t get spammed).

I’m still persevering with HCC with help of the CTC, and am considering
a leaflet drop, and have written to my local news paper (not published
yet).

Any support would be welcomed!


Thanks,


Mark.

"Mark" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I’m new to this group, but have been a ‘lurking’ for a while.

I live in Denmead, Hampshire and have become very concerned about some
traffic calming measures being proposed by Hampshire County Council
(HCC). The proposals include eight pedestrian refuges that will reduce
the carriage way to less than 3.1m. From all the best practice and
research I can find, gaps of 3m may be acceptable where the speed limit
is below 30MPH and the traffic is light. The road in question is subject
to heavy traffic and subject to a 30MPH limit.

I go through dozens of pinch points every day and have never once been cut
up by a motorist, albeit in 20 mph zones. Interestingly enough, the guy who
you refer to in your links lives a mile away from me and we cycle along the
same roads, so it shows how people's perception of the same calming measures
can differ so widely!
--
Simon Mason
Anlaby
East Yorkshire.
53°44'N 0°26'W
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

Mark wrote:

Any support would be welcomed!


If you haven't already done so, read
http://www.thebikezone.org.uk/thebik...nchpoints.html which
includes useful information on how to tackle a reluctant authority and the
relevant standards for central refuges etc. It does though recognise a 3m gap
as acceptable if traffic speeds are below 30mph.

Tony

Simon Mason wrote:
"Mark" wrote in message
...

Hi all,

I’m new to this group, but have been a ‘lurking’ for a while.

I live in Denmead, Hampshire and have become very concerned about some
traffic calming measures being proposed by Hampshire County Council
(HCC). The proposals include eight pedestrian refuges that will reduce
the carriage way to less than 3.1m. From all the best practice and
research I can find, gaps of 3m may be acceptable where the speed limit
is below 30MPH and the traffic is light. The road in question is subject
to heavy traffic and subject to a 30MPH limit.


I go through dozens of pinch points every day and have never once been cut
up by a motorist, albeit in 20 mph zones. Interestingly enough, the guy who
you refer to in your links lives a mile away from me and we cycle along the
same roads, so it shows how people's perception of the same calming measures
can differ so widely!


The recommendations I quoted did say that a 3m gap may acceptable where
the speed limit is below 30MPH and the traffic is light. Do the pinch
points you encounter always meet these two criteria, and are they 3m or
less? Would you expect a problem with heavy traffic in a 30MPH zone?

This is useful information, as it may make a case to drop the speed
limit to 20MPH, bearing in mind there's a school on the road.

Thanks,

Mark.

"Mark" wrote in message news:c70as5$n08
The recommendations I quoted did say that a 3m gap may acceptable where
the speed limit is below 30MPH and the traffic is light. Do the pinch
points you encounter always meet these two criteria, and are they 3m or
less? Would you expect a problem with heavy traffic in a 30MPH zone?

I can't really say Mark - I've never measure them. I think the main reason
I've never been passed by a car immediately before one, is that the driver
can see that if they try overtaking and get it wrong, then they will stove
in the front of their car on the keep left sign.

--
Simon M.

On Sat, 1 May 2004 14:22:39 +0100, "Simon Mason"
wrote in message
:

I go through dozens of pinch points every day and have never once been cut
up by a motorist,

Lucky you. It used to be a regular occurrence before I changed jobs
to one with no pinch points.

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

On Sat, 01 May 2004 14:09:52 +0100, Mark
wrote:

Hi all,

I’m new to this group, but have been a ‘lurking’ for a while.

I live in Denmead, Hampshire and have become very concerned about some
traffic calming measures being proposed by Hampshire County Council
(HCC). The proposals include eight pedestrian refuges that will reduce
the carriage way to less than 3.1m. From all the best practice and
research I can find, gaps of 3m may be acceptable where the speed limit
is below 30MPH and the traffic is light. The road in question is subject
to heavy traffic and subject to a 30MPH limit.

On Howard's page (that you link to), there's a picture of narrowings
that include a marked cycle lane that leaves less than a bike-width of
black tarmac. I wonder (a) if this works to make drivers think twice
and (b) whether this might mitigate the impact of this scheme as it
stands.

I’m in communication with HCC about the matter but they seem set on
building these refuges, as early as August this year. I have presented
them with the best practice documents and advice, offered alternatives,
got endorsement from my MP Mark Oaten), backing from Sustrans and CTC,
but they seem hell bent on going ahead, and I’m at a loss on what I can
do now.

I hate to say this but HCC do not have the faintest inkling how to
provide for or encourage cycling. IME they will ride roughshod over
comments made by CTC, Sustrans etc if they are counter to the advice
of the 'cycling' officer. (Caveat: HCC has two cycling officers; one
for leisure and one for roads. The leisure one's OK).

HCC's *intentions* for cycling are good but the culture remains
focused on designing road layout for efficient (motor) traffic flow
and cycling provision is measured only by its degree of safety (ie
separatin from cars).

HCC is on line for nearly all the targets set in the LTP with the
exception of cycling which continues its year-on-year decline in
Hampshire. If you read the LTP, there are many examples cited of cycle
provision but the pictures show them to be nearly all poor.

I’ve knocked up a quick website with a photograph for you to see:

http://denmead.netfirms.com/

I’ve also created an online petition that I’d really like you to sign
and pass around your contacts / groups, etc.

http://www.petitiononline.com/denmead/petition.html

(If you use a real e-mail address, you’ll get one e-mail confirming that
you’ve voted, and won’t get spammed).

I’m still persevering with HCC with help of the CTC, and am considering
a leaflet drop, and have written to my local news paper (not published
yet).

Any support would be welcomed!


Thanks,


Mark.

--

Transport & Urban Planning Blog

now at http://notonmywatch.blogs.com

On Sat, 01 May 2004 17:12:38 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:

On Sat, 1 May 2004 14:22:39 +0100, "Simon Mason"
wrote in message
:

I go through dozens of pinch points every day and have never once been cut
up by a motorist,

Lucky you. It used to be a regular occurrence before I changed jobs
to one with no pinch points.

Yep. Happens to me all the time.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

On Sat, 1 May 2004 14:22:39 +0100, "Simon Mason"
wrote:

I go through dozens of pinch points every day and have never once been cut
up by a motorist,

We've had these locally since around Xmas (Fishponds Road, Bristol,
by the new Lidl) and I've already had to take evading action twice.

The problem seems to be that the road (a fairly busy suburban high
street) is adequately wide for the accepted level of parking, but
there's always a few extra cars just before the refuge, where they
shouldn't be. A cyclist who has just passed these parked cars is too
far into the centre of the lane to be safely passed by a car that
veers left to avoid the refuge. It's particularly bad if the cyclist
goes left immediately after the parked car, because they're now hidden
behind it. A car doing 40-50mph (which isn't unusual, if the traffic
lights didn't stop them) and an unfamiliar driver sees the refuge too
late, veers left sharply and is likely to catch any cyclist in the
hidden area.

--
Smert' spamionam

Andy Dingley wrote:

The problem seems to be that the road (a fairly busy suburban high
street) is adequately wide for the accepted level of parking, but
there's always a few extra cars just before the refuge, where they
shouldn't be. A cyclist who has just passed these parked cars is too
far into the centre of the lane to be safely passed by a car that
veers left to avoid the refuge. It's particularly bad if the cyclist
goes left immediately after the parked car, because they're now hidden
behind it. A car doing 40-50mph (which isn't unusual, if the traffic
lights didn't stop them) and an unfamiliar driver sees the refuge too
late, veers left sharply and is likely to catch any cyclist in the
hidden area.

Which is why you should not pull in after the parked cars but move further out
to control the lane through the pinch point and then pull back in once you are
on the other side. Even with central refuges on a clear straight road I will
move out well before to the middle of the lane and then pull back in quickly
once past to let the cars pass and make it obvious why I did it. If you are
in the right place it is very obvious to the following car that they cannot
get past.

Tony