Campagnolo 11 speed prices

On Oct 29, 5:05*pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
Martin Borsje wrote:
explained :
On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:03:25 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...61&item=50-733...

A grand for a crank? *Maybe, maybe rational.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...63&item=50-733...

$625 for shifters? *Getting irrational.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...64&item=50-733...

$500 for a rear derailleur? *Irrational.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...56&item=50-732...

$480 for a cassette? *Well beyond irrational.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...65&item=50-733...

$230 for a FRONT derailleur? *Inexplicable.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...62&item=50-733...

$90 for a chain? *Only $10 more than the 10 speed chain.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...59&item=50-732...

$50 for just the outboard bearing cups?

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...58&item=50-732...

$450 for brakes?

$3425 for the above parts. *Wow.

Dear Russell,

But think of the benefits!

Crank:

"CULT 5/32 ceramic ball bearings are housed in a low-drag
technopolymer cage with super-hard Cronitect races, plus they re 200
times more resistant to corrosion than stainless steel bearings."

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...61&item=50-733...

["CULT" is a nice name, given the drag reduction. And thank heavens
someone has solved the problem of those stainless steel crank bearings
corroding all the time!]

***

Brifter:

"Titanium mechanism parts for lightweight strength"

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...63&item=50-733...

[Say goodbye to those old steel-filled boat anchors on the handlebar
that held you back!]

***

Rear derailleur:

"Ultra-Shift parallelogram design uses a forged aluminum body with a
carbon fiber outer plate to improve accuracy, reduce weight and
increase torsional stiffness by 150%!"

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...64&item=50-733...

[The old rear derailleurs were so limp that no springs were actually
needed. The old cages just bent back and forth to move the chain.]

Max. Cog: *27T Capacity: *29T
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...64&item=50-733...

[This makes sense if you remove the cassette's wisdom teeth, so to
speak.]

***

"Get better shifting precision, longer lasting performance and a
broader range of gear combinations with Campy s 11-speed cassette."

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...56&item=50-732...

[Er, broader? Isn't the _range_ still the same?]

***

Front derailleur:

"Carbon fiber outer cage lightens the load and adds an attractive
look"

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...65&item=50-733...

[Wow! It's only 72 grams. That's 17 grams lighter than the Shimano
Ultegra 10 FD-6600 braze-on.]

***

"New narrow design at 5.5mm eliminates friction with adjacent
sprockets and chainrings - this means quieter, quicker and smoother
shifting action"

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...62&item=50-733...

[This new narrow design should solve all those early complaints about
fat old 10-speed chains jamming solid on the new 11-speed cassettes.]

***

Outboard bearing cups:

"Pewter finish"

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...59&item=50-732...

[Sure they cost $50, but have you priced pewter lately?]

***

Brakes:

$450

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...58&item=50-732...

[Okay, $450 might seem a little high at first, but do you really want
to trust your expensive 11-speed components to dangerously
old-fashioned brakes designed to stop only 10-speed components?]

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Totally ridiculous, absurd.

People buying these should be directed immediately to psychiatric clinic.

Com' on, bank bonusses are over!

The average devaluation in the first year of a new medium size car is
4000 euro. Lots of those. Put those people in a psychiatric clinic too?
It is gonna be crowded in there.
I was at my LBS last saturday and I asked if he already sold 11 speed
Record gruppo's. 'Yes several', he answered. Did you took one shifter
apart was my second question? Yes he said. And? 'Scary', they changed
almost everything.
I think I stick to my 10 speed stuff for a while ;-)

Lou

'Scary'? Why? VERY simple, much more robust, still with part
numbers..ALL levers the same...

On Oct 29, 2:21*pm, wrote:
skrev:

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...61&item=50-733...
A grand for a crank? *Maybe, maybe rational.

"Only" 489 euro hehttp://bike-components.de/catalog/An...per+Record+Ult...

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...63&item=50-733...
$625 for shifters? *Getting irrational.

289 Euro:http://bike-components.de/catalog/An...per+Record+11+...

I looks like performancebike is charging a hefty overprice. Usually
there isn't such a big discrepancy between prices in the US and EU
regarding high end Campagnolo stuff.

Not that I find SR inexpensive even at EU prices. I think SR is a
service Campagnolo provides to wealthy people that really don't now
what else to do with the heaps of cash that accumulates on their bank
account.

--
Regards

What I wonder is what makes 7900 nearly twice the price of 7800, with
the aluminum crank? $1400 vs $2600.

Peter Chisholm wrote:

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...61&item=50-733...

A grand for a crank? Â*Maybe, maybe rational.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...63&item=50-733...

$625 for shifters? Â*Getting irrational.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...64&item=50-733...

$500 for a rear derailleur? Â*Irrational.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...56&item=50-732...

$480 for a cassette? Â*Well beyond irrational.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...65&item=50-733...

$230 for a FRONT derailleur? Â*Inexplicable.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...62&item=50-733...

$90 for a chain? Only $10 more than the 10 speed chain.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...59&item=50-732...

$50 for just the outboard bearing cups?

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...58&item=50-732...

$450 for brakes?

$3425 for the above parts. Â*Wow.


But think of the benefits!

Crank:

"CULT 5/32 ceramic ball bearings are housed in a low-drag
technopolymer cage with super-hard Cronitect races, plus they re
200 times more resistant to corrosion than stainless steel
bearings."

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...61&item=50-733...

["CULT" is a nice name, given the drag reduction. And thank
heavens someone has solved the problem of those stainless steel
crank bearings corroding all the time!]

***

Brifter:

"Titanium mechanism parts for lightweight strength"

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...63&item=50-733...

[Say goodbye to those old steel-filled boat anchors on the
handlebar that held you back!]

***

Rear derailleur:

"Ultra-Shift parallelogram design uses a forged aluminum body
with a carbon fiber outer plate to improve accuracy, reduce
weight and increase torsional stiffness by 150%!"

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...64&item=50-733...

[The old rear derailleurs were so limp that no springs were
actually needed. The old cages just bent back and forth to move
the chain.]

Max. Cog: Â*27T Capacity: Â*29T

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...64&item=50-733...

[This makes sense if you remove the cassette's wisdom teeth, so
to speak.]

***

"Get better shifting precision, longer lasting performance and a
broader range of gear combinations with Campy s 11-speed
cassette."

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...56&item=50-732...

[Er, broader? Isn't the _range_ still the same?]

***

Front derailleur:

"Carbon fiber outer cage lightens the load and adds an attractive
look"

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...65&item=50-733...

[Wow! It's only 72 grams. That's 17 grams lighter than the
Shimano Ultegra 10 FD-6600 braze-on.]

***

"New narrow design at 5.5mm eliminates friction with adjacent
sprockets and chainrings - this means quieter, quicker and
smoother shifting action"

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...62&item=50-733...

[This new narrow design should solve all those early complaints
about fat old 10-speed chains jamming solid on the new 11-speed
cassettes.]

***

Outboard bearing cups:

"Pewter finish"

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...59&item=50-732...

[Sure they cost $50, but have you priced pewter lately?]

***

Brakes:

$450

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...58&item=50-732...

[OK, $450 might seem a little high at first, but do you really
want to trust your expensive 11-speed components to dangerously
old-fashioned brakes designed to stop only 10-speed components?]

Cheers,

Totally ridiculous, absurd.

People buying these should be directed immediately to psychiatric
clinic.

Com' on, bank bonuses are over!

The average devaluation in the first year of a new medium size car
is 4000 euro. Lots of those. Put those people in a psychiatric
clinic too? It is gonna be crowded in there.

I was at my LBS last Saturday and I asked if he already sold 11
speed Record gruppo's. 'Yes several', he answered. Did you take a
shifter apart was my second question? Yes he said. And? 'Scary',
they changed almost everything. I think I stick to my 10 speed
stuff for a while ;-)

'Scary'? Why? VERY simple, much more robust, still with part
numbers... ALL levers the same...

I saw it coming more than 50 years ago when a good bicycle was what
was used in racing then. People who are distorting cost and equipment
features today would ask, "Did you ride all the way up that mountain?"
finishing with a dismissive "oh but you have a ten-speed" as if ten
gear ratios would make that effortless and within reach of anyone who
could afford a "ten-speed".

That belief is well and alive today as more an more gear ratios are
offered as though we were Cummins diesel trucks shifting into gears
that keep the "cadence" at 2200 RPM as truckers do. These folks do
not recognize that climbing rate depends on physical power rather than
torque. In that vein, we have progressed from the ten-speed to the
33-speed without aficionados noticing that hills haven't become
flatter as they seem to believe.

These same people have brought us all sorts of expensive and high
mechanical advantage brakes because they have no grip, while the Silca
Impero frame fit plastic tire pump has vanished because they can't
push the pressure break off valve stems in their clumsy efforts. So
now we see CO2 cartridges and inner tubes, too small in cross section
to patch, lying along roads.

Things are not improving as fast in bicycle technology as one is lead
to believe. As I mentioned in another thread, freewheel ratchets,
although improved are run practically dry (noisy) as a defense against
failures that are more caused by absurd gearing than sticky
lubrication.

Jobst Brandt

wrote in message
...

Things are not improving as fast in bicycle technology as one is lead
to believe. As I mentioned in another thread, freewheel ratchets,
although improved are run practically dry (noisy) as a defense against
failures that are more caused by absurd gearing than sticky
lubrication.

Oy - those low gears aren't absurd. Not everybody has legs like you. Cycling
should be, and is, accessible to people who aren't as strong, for whatever
reason.

used his keyboard to write :


Don't get me wrong Carl. I also think that the new 11 speed Super
Record is ridiculous expensive. It is not the brifter but the cassette
is what I think has the most ridiculous pricetag. But sending people
to a mental hospital who buy that stuff for whatever reason is another
question. Do we want to send people with Rolex watches or Calvin Klein
T-shirts or underwear to the funny barn?

Lou

Yes we do!

;-)

Clive George wrote on 30-10-2008 :
wrote in message
...

Things are not improving as fast in bicycle technology as one is lead
to believe. As I mentioned in another thread, freewheel ratchets,
although improved are run practically dry (noisy) as a defense against
failures that are more caused by absurd gearing than sticky
lubrication.

Oy - those low gears aren't absurd. Not everybody has legs like you. Cycling
should be, and is, accessible to people who aren't as strong, for whatever
reason.

Low gears has nothing to do with # gears extravagancy

"Martin Borsje" wrote in message
...
Clive George wrote on 30-10-2008 :
wrote in message
...

Things are not improving as fast in bicycle technology as one is lead
to believe. As I mentioned in another thread, freewheel ratchets,
although improved are run practically dry (noisy) as a defense against
failures that are more caused by absurd gearing than sticky
lubrication.

Oy - those low gears aren't absurd. Not everybody has legs like you.
Cycling should be, and is, accessible to people who aren't as strong, for
whatever reason.

Low gears has nothing to do with # gears extravagancy

Yebbut the point about the absurd gearing causing failures is low gears give
the ratchets a harder time. Number of gears is irrelevant to noisy
freewheels.

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Oct 29, 5:05 pm, Lou Holtman wrote:

The average devaluation in the first year of a new medium size car is
4000 euro. Lots of those. Put those people in a psychiatric clinic too?
It is gonna be crowded in there.
I was at my LBS last saturday and I asked if he already sold 11 speed
Record gruppo's. 'Yes several', he answered. Did you took one shifter
apart was my second question? Yes he said. And? 'Scary', they changed
almost everything.
I think I stick to my 10 speed stuff for a while ;-)

Lou

'Scary'? Why? VERY simple, much more robust, still with part
numbers..ALL levers the same...


He found the grooved plate and the tiny bearing balls preloaded with a
spring washer 'scary'. Why change a reliable (10 speed) mechanism with a
new 'invented wheel' he asked himself.
How do you know if it is more robust Peter?

Lou

Clive George wrote:

Things are not improving as fast in bicycle technology as one is
lead to believe. As I mentioned in another thread, freewheel
ratchets, although improved are run practically dry (noisy) as a
defense against failures that are more caused by absurd gearing
than sticky lubrication.

Oy - those low gears aren't absurd. Not everybody has legs like
you. Cycling should be, and is, accessible to people who aren't as
strong, for whatever reason.

....and who have enough money to pull the industry off into absurd
designs. The pursuit of equipping many nonathletic people with
bicycles that they can parade around on is not good for improvements
of the equipment. Interviewing drivers of FWD SUV's and all sorts of
people in pseudo pickup trucks brings out a "logical" sounding
explanation why they need such a vehicle. The same goes for the high
end bicycle owners.

Gotta have it!

Jobst Brandt

wrote in message
...
Clive George wrote:

Things are not improving as fast in bicycle technology as one is
lead to believe. As I mentioned in another thread, freewheel
ratchets, although improved are run practically dry (noisy) as a
defense against failures that are more caused by absurd gearing
than sticky lubrication.

Oy - those low gears aren't absurd. Not everybody has legs like
you. Cycling should be, and is, accessible to people who aren't as
strong, for whatever reason.

...and who have enough money to pull the industry off into absurd
designs. The pursuit of equipping many nonathletic people with
bicycles that they can parade around on is not good for improvements
of the equipment. Interviewing drivers of FWD SUV's and all sorts of
people in pseudo pickup trucks brings out a "logical" sounding
explanation why they need such a vehicle. The same goes for the high
end bicycle owners.

Gotta have it!

And that's got nothing to do with what I'm berating you about.

You said "run practically dry (noisy) as a defense against failures that are
more caused by absurd gearing". That's got nothing to do with parading,
latest designs, high end, all the things you (reasonably IMO) complain
about.