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#11
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Is an electric bike cheating?
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:00:46 -0700 (PDT), DennisTheBald
wrote: On Oct 27, 8:01*am, dgk wrote: I hate hills. I hate headwinds. I'm in my late 50s. It takes me 80 minutes to commute in and the same going home. That's a lot of time (15 miles at 10.7 mph or so). So, maybe I can shave 25 minutes off and bike even more often if I get something like this: http://www.schwinnelectricbikes.com/Bikes/Tailwind.aspx Looks like a decent commuter bike. Of course, it's at least $2000 and is about the weakest motor I've seen, but I'm not looking for a moped. Or maybe the WorldGSE model which seems like a real bike, but oddly only comes in 17" or 21" sizes: http://www.schwinnelectricbikes.com/Bikes/WorldGSE.aspx Decent components I think; it would be a good bike if non-electric. Well, is this cheating? Will I end up being just a mobile couch potato? I rode one of those around the LBS parking lot a bit about a year ago. It was a weird feeling when the motor pushed, it would take some getting used to. I think I would prefer a straight up throttle control rather than the way these Schwins work, sensing when the pedals were turning and all that. I think it's more an issue of where the motor is. Many bikes have the motor drive the chain, or at least the rear wheel. These have the motor on the front wheel. Kind of like switching from a rear wheel drive car to front wheel drive, or at least 4 wheel drive. I guess that's 2 wheel drive in bike terms. I would think it is a bit of a learning curve to get used to the front wheel supplying power. I read somewhere (one of the kit sellers) that you need steel forks, not aluminum, if you're planning on adding a front rim motor. The last thing you want is for the fork to break. But those were more powerful than the Schwinns; I'm sure they design them so the forks don't break. |
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#12
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Is an electric bike cheating?
dgk wrote:
I hate hills. I hate headwinds. I'm in my late 50s. It takes me 80 minutes to commute in and the same going home. That's a lot of time (15 miles at 10.7 mph or so). So, maybe I can shave 25 minutes off and bike even more often if I get something like this: snip Presently, the best electric bicycles are from this company "http://pacificebike.com/index.html". I was talking to the founder at Interbike, where it seems that there were 100 companies promoting $2000+ electric bicycles, which will of course never sell. He told me "I charge less retail that they are trying to wholesale them for." He set up a factory in Suzhou China to manufacture his bikes. Just remember than Li-Ion batteries don't last forever. After 3-4 years you'll have to replace the battery at significant cost. |
#13
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Is an electric bike cheating?
dgk wrote:
I hate hills. I hate headwinds. I'm in my late 50s. It takes me 80 minutes to commute in and the same going home. That's a lot of time (15 miles at 10.7 mph or so). So, maybe I can shave 25 minutes off and bike even more often if I get something like this: http://www.schwinnelectricbikes.com/Bikes/Tailwind.aspx Looks like a decent commuter bike. Of course, it's at least $2000 and is about the weakest motor I've seen, but I'm not looking for a moped. Or maybe the WorldGSE model which seems like a real bike, but oddly only comes in 17" or 21" sizes: http://www.schwinnelectricbikes.com/Bikes/WorldGSE.aspx Decent components I think; it would be a good bike if non-electric. Having the heavy battery so high with all the weight over the rear wheel, is a poor design. Look for eBikes where the frame is custom designed and the battery goes between the rear wheel and the seat tube. |
#14
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Is an electric bike cheating?
On Oct 28, 7:45*am, dgk wrote:
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:00:46 -0700 (PDT), DennisTheBald wrote: On Oct 27, 8:01*am, dgk wrote: I hate hills. I hate headwinds. I'm in my late 50s. It takes me 80 minutes to commute in and the same going home. That's a lot of time (15 miles at 10.7 mph or so). So, maybe I can shave 25 minutes off and bike even more often if I get something like this: http://www.schwinnelectricbikes.com/Bikes/Tailwind.aspx Looks like a decent commuter bike. Of course, it's at least $2000 and is about the weakest motor I've seen, but I'm not looking for a moped. Or maybe the WorldGSE model which seems like a real bike, but oddly only comes in 17" or 21" sizes: http://www.schwinnelectricbikes.com/Bikes/WorldGSE.aspx Decent components I think; it would be a good bike if non-electric. Well, is this cheating? Will I end up being just a mobile couch potato? I rode one of those around the LBS parking lot a bit about a year ago. It was a weird feeling when the motor pushed, it would take some getting used to. *I think I would prefer a straight up throttle control rather than the way these Schwins work, sensing when the pedals were turning and all that. I think it's more an issue of where the motor is. Many bikes have the motor drive the chain, or at least the rear wheel. These have the motor on the front wheel. Kind of like switching from a rear wheel drive car to front wheel drive, or at least 4 wheel drive. I guess that's 2 wheel drive in bike terms. I would think it is a bit of a learning curve to get used to the front wheel supplying power. I read somewhere (one of the kit sellers) that you need steel forks, not aluminum, if you're planning on adding a front rim motor. The last thing you want is for the fork to break. But those were more powerful than the Schwinns; I'm sure they design them so the forks don't break. There are kits that put a hub motor inside a rear wheel and still allow for a freewheel... I've only got a couple old clunkers with freewheels, most of my bikes have freehubs now. And the Schwinn still looks like a bike instead of some thing I might make in my garage. I can't understand people's issue with the shimano 8 speed internal hub. My everyday bike has a triple up front but I generally don't ever shift it on my way back and forth to work... but the tallest thing I climb is an overpass. The Campus model looks like my pick but it's now only available in Europe. |
#15
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Is an electric bike cheating?
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:24:03 -0700, SMS
wrote: dgk wrote: I hate hills. I hate headwinds. I'm in my late 50s. It takes me 80 minutes to commute in and the same going home. That's a lot of time (15 miles at 10.7 mph or so). So, maybe I can shave 25 minutes off and bike even more often if I get something like this: http://www.schwinnelectricbikes.com/Bikes/Tailwind.aspx Looks like a decent commuter bike. Of course, it's at least $2000 and is about the weakest motor I've seen, but I'm not looking for a moped. Or maybe the WorldGSE model which seems like a real bike, but oddly only comes in 17" or 21" sizes: http://www.schwinnelectricbikes.com/Bikes/WorldGSE.aspx Decent components I think; it would be a good bike if non-electric. Having the heavy battery so high with all the weight over the rear wheel, is a poor design. Look for eBikes where the frame is custom designed and the battery goes between the rear wheel and the seat tube. It depends on the battery. The newest LI ones are 10 lbs or so. My pack often weighs that much. I wouldn't get anything with an SLA battery. Those would need to go lower on the frame but they add so much weight that the bike is useless without the motor running. According to the Schwinn site, the whole weight of the system is 12 lbs. Whether that includes the battery is not clear. I'd guess not. But the bike is useable without power. And I like the idea of the Nexus rear hub, particularly for winter. |
#16
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Is an electric bike cheating?
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 07:31:39 -0700, SMS
wrote: dgk wrote: I hate hills. I hate headwinds. I'm in my late 50s. It takes me 80 minutes to commute in and the same going home. That's a lot of time (15 miles at 10.7 mph or so). So, maybe I can shave 25 minutes off and bike even more often if I get something like this: snip Presently, the best electric bicycles are from this company "http://pacificebike.com/index.html". I was talking to the founder at Interbike, where it seems that there were 100 companies promoting $2000+ electric bicycles, which will of course never sell. He told me "I charge less retail that they are trying to wholesale them for." He set up a factory in Suzhou China to manufacture his bikes. Just remember than Li-Ion batteries don't last forever. After 3-4 years you'll have to replace the battery at significant cost. But there are no stats at all about the bike components. And they seem to be one size fits all. It is $1000+ cheaper than the Schwinn though. But I like the Schwinns because they seem like good bikes. I can't tell anything about this except that the electrical system is probably most of the cost. This really would seem like a moped type of thing. |
#17
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Is an electric bike cheating?
On Oct 28, 12:08*pm, dgk wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:24:03 -0700, SMS wrote: dgk wrote: I hate hills. I hate headwinds. I'm in my late 50s. It takes me 80 minutes to commute in and the same going home. That's a lot of time (15 miles at 10.7 mph or so). So, maybe I can shave 25 minutes off and bike even more often if I get something like this: http://www.schwinnelectricbikes.com/Bikes/Tailwind.aspx Looks like a decent commuter bike. Of course, it's at least $2000 and is about the weakest motor I've seen, but I'm not looking for a moped. Or maybe the WorldGSE model which seems like a real bike, but oddly only comes in 17" or 21" sizes: http://www.schwinnelectricbikes.com/Bikes/WorldGSE.aspx Decent components I think; it would be a good bike if non-electric. Having the heavy battery so high with all the weight over the rear wheel, is a poor design. Look for eBikes where the frame is custom designed and the battery goes between the rear wheel and the seat tube. It depends on the battery. The newest LI ones are 10 lbs or so. My pack often weighs that much. I wouldn't get anything with an SLA battery. Those would need to go lower on the frame but they add so much weight that the bike is useless without the motor running. According to the Schwinn site, the whole weight of the system is 12 lbs. Whether that includes the battery is not clear. I'd guess not. But the bike is useable without power. And I like the idea of the Nexus rear hub, particularly for winter. I've got a 7ah SLA (12v) on my non motorized bike this time of year. Granted it ain't got near enough beef to run even the 180W motor on these Schwinns. But It doesn't present a significant impairment to transportational riding (it weighs less than my clothes & lunch bucket). I mount it low on my 'bent (chain stays) - but higher (seat stay near brake bosses) back in my wedgie days. SLA isn't all sexy like them new li-ons, but it ain't expensive like 'em either. SLA, like a steel frame, is the real deal - best bang for your buck over the entire life of the product. If the li-ion batteries are good for 5000 cycles (as they claim), and you charged it at the office too, it ought to last about 10 years. I'm kinda skeptical of the claim. They've been putting this type of battery in laptops for a couple years now so there is probably empirical data from those implementations. One thing for sure, these Schwinns are hands down the best looking electric bikes available. I was kinda curious about the shaft, but the LBS didn't have one of those for me to touch. I really like the idea of a completely closed up chain path. Some of the european only models had a much nicer saddle on 'em. And it would have to be some saddle to get me back on a wedgie. If they keep tweaking the product line I might be ready for just that next year. |
#18
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Is an electric bike cheating?
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 11:22:46 -0700 (PDT), DennisTheBald
wrote: On Oct 28, 12:08*pm, dgk wrote: On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:24:03 -0700, SMS wrote: dgk wrote: I hate hills. I hate headwinds. I'm in my late 50s. It takes me 80 minutes to commute in and the same going home. That's a lot of time (15 miles at 10.7 mph or so). So, maybe I can shave 25 minutes off and bike even more often if I get something like this: http://www.schwinnelectricbikes.com/Bikes/Tailwind.aspx Looks like a decent commuter bike. Of course, it's at least $2000 and is about the weakest motor I've seen, but I'm not looking for a moped. Or maybe the WorldGSE model which seems like a real bike, but oddly only comes in 17" or 21" sizes: http://www.schwinnelectricbikes.com/Bikes/WorldGSE.aspx Decent components I think; it would be a good bike if non-electric. Having the heavy battery so high with all the weight over the rear wheel, is a poor design. Look for eBikes where the frame is custom designed and the battery goes between the rear wheel and the seat tube. It depends on the battery. The newest LI ones are 10 lbs or so. My pack often weighs that much. I wouldn't get anything with an SLA battery. Those would need to go lower on the frame but they add so much weight that the bike is useless without the motor running. According to the Schwinn site, the whole weight of the system is 12 lbs. Whether that includes the battery is not clear. I'd guess not. But the bike is useable without power. And I like the idea of the Nexus rear hub, particularly for winter. I've got a 7ah SLA (12v) on my non motorized bike this time of year. Granted it ain't got near enough beef to run even the 180W motor on these Schwinns. But It doesn't present a significant impairment to transportational riding (it weighs less than my clothes & lunch bucket). I mount it low on my 'bent (chain stays) - but higher (seat stay near brake bosses) back in my wedgie days. SLA isn't all sexy like them new li-ons, but it ain't expensive like 'em either. SLA, like a steel frame, is the real deal - best bang for your buck over the entire life of the product. If the li-ion batteries are good for 5000 cycles (as they claim), and you charged it at the office too, it ought to last about 10 years. I'm kinda skeptical of the claim. They've been putting this type of battery in laptops for a couple years now so there is probably empirical data from those implementations. One thing for sure, these Schwinns are hands down the best looking electric bikes available. I was kinda curious about the shaft, but the LBS didn't have one of those for me to touch. I really like the idea of a completely closed up chain path. Some of the european only models had a much nicer saddle on 'em. And it would have to be some saddle to get me back on a wedgie. If they keep tweaking the product line I might be ready for just that next year. I'm hoping the price goes down, but the batteries are really expensive. But if they last even 3000 cycles, that is pretty good. |
#19
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Is an electric bike cheating?
dgk wrote:
I hate hills. I hate headwinds. I'm in my late 50s. It takes me 80 minutes to commute in and the same going home. That's a lot of time (15 miles at 10.7 mph or so). So, maybe I can shave 25 minutes off and bike even more often if I get something like this: http://www.schwinnelectricbikes.com/Bikes/Tailwind.aspx Looks like a decent commuter bike. Of course, it's at least $2000 and is about the weakest motor I've seen, but I'm not looking for a moped. Or maybe the WorldGSE model which seems like a real bike, but oddly only comes in 17" or 21" sizes: http://www.schwinnelectricbikes.com/Bikes/WorldGSE.aspx Decent components I think; it would be a good bike if non-electric. Well, is this cheating? Will I end up being just a mobile couch potato? "Cheating"? I observe this attitude regarding e-bikes a lot in cyclists, even though they also have cars that they don't consider to be "cheating" per se. An e-bike is what it is-- neither a pedal-only bicycle nor a moped. It takes quite a bit more upkeep than a normal pedal bike, and it's heavier and less wieldy. Some folks use an e-bike as a kind of incredibly feeble and slow moped, without pedaling at all. They are still not cheating, unless it's cheating themselves out of a real motor vehicle. If you want to pick up your current pace substantially, you'll have to add something like your current level of effort to whatever power the e-bike can provide. Do not expect miracles, but do expect a more satisfying result from your physical work. Ebikes can be fun and highly economical. If using one means you spend more days on the bike and fewer in a car, then that's a major benefit to yourself and your community. Nobody is cheated. Chalo |
#20
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Is an electric bike cheating?
On 28 Oct, 12:41, dgk wrote:
No it's not cheating. *80 minutes at each end of a working day must feel bad when you're not up to it. *I'm thinking that perhaps you should be making a little better headway, perhaps 60 minutes for the 15 miles. *Just try riding to work once or twice a week and maybe your speed will improve. *Try to find a non-exposed route when you are otherwised faced with a headwind (or make this an off day). *Drop handlebars will help against winds and supple tyres will improve your speed for any day. *i always wonder, "but what if the motor fails", I'd have to lug that as well. I suppose I could put more effort into it, but I'm thinking less, not more. Much of my ride is along the water (East River) and wind can be pretty wicked there. The other option is riding with lots of traffic and I prefer to avoid that. It just isn't pleasant. I was thinking that there are ways to make your ride easier. By making it easier, the amount of effort you expend will be reduced and so will the time taken. The simplest way to make it easier is to ride no more than once or twice a week. At twice a week, you can make modifications in position or tyres and see the benefit. You may not notice this if you are still tired from the previous day. If you take it as easy as you can on each day you ride you may see the benefits much sooner than riding harder. Give yourself plenty of time and carry food and drink. You'll get there when you do, comfortably. As the weather gets colder you will need to work harder to keep your body temperature up. Because the seasons change progressively, it is a good way to increase intensity without overdoing it. Just regulate your body temperature by your effort expenditure. |
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