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#11
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In praise of Sapim spokes
On Feb 1, 11:22*am, Chalo wrote:
Andre Jute wrote: Chalo wrote: Danscomp.com. *That is, if you're content with Sapim 14ga ($.25 ea.) or 14/15ga ($.40 ea.) spokes. *They cut spokes to order, so they always have the length you want. In *Europe the best touring and heavy duty wheels are built with Sapim spokes, so I would say "highly desirable", rather than "content with" which implies there is something better to aspire to. I like Sapims. *In the US of A, most folks who insist on a particular kind of spoke specify DT Swiss rather than the totally satisfactory equivalents from Sapim, Wheelsmith, or Marwi. Sapims are a little softer than DTs (not that it seems to matter). *I even prefer the look of their less-shiny finish and visible butting. Chalo Problem with Sapim in the US is distribution, in that nobody distributes them. KHS(not the bike but a small family run distributor) occasionally has some but their invemntory is spotty and when they DO have them, they are often only everyother size. Nobody distributes Marwi, AFAIK. Wheelsmith are poor. I have seen more than a few fail, in that they give up their strength when tensioning and stretch to the point of failure. Tightening a nipple makes them longer/looser, not tighter. |
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#12
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In praise of Sapim spokes
On Feb 1, 2:04Â*pm, thirty-six wrote:
On Feb 1, 7:53Â*pm, Chalo wrote: russellseaton wrote: I am not fond of Sapim's nipples. Â*The ones that Dans Comp sends with its Sapim spokes are very long and large. Â*Not small and elegant nipples like DT. Â*Last wheels I built I used DT spokes ordered from Starbike in Germany. I don't think Danscomp sends Sapim nipples; the ones I used to get with Sapim spokes from Thor USA were really nice short things with a spherical surface on the heads. Â*They're better than DT nipples for angled insertion (like with high hub flanges or small diameter rims). http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=pro.../product10.htm I build and repair lots of wheels with both long and short nipples, and I'm more or less indifferent either way. Â*DT standard nipples are sharply machined and true to size, but longer nipples often are more resistant to rounding off when the going gets tough. Â*Short nipples offer more options for how to take up the slack in a freshly laced wheel. Â*Long ones can work better with spokes that are a little too short. So you know, DT offers long nipples too. http://www.nationaloutdoors.net/comp...T-Swiss-Extra-... Chalo Still no 10mm long nipples, why? Because with lotsa rims the nipple won't protrude far enough to grab with a spoke wrench. CXP-33 is a good example. |
#13
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In praise of Sapim spokes
On Feb 2, 3:36Â*pm, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Feb 1, 2:04Â*pm, thirty-six wrote: On Feb 1, 7:53Â*pm, Chalo wrote: russellseaton wrote: I am not fond of Sapim's nipples. Â*The ones that Dans Comp sends with its Sapim spokes are very long and large. Â*Not small and elegant nipples like DT. Â*Last wheels I built I used DT spokes ordered from Starbike in Germany. I don't think Danscomp sends Sapim nipples; the ones I used to get with Sapim spokes from Thor USA were really nice short things with a spherical surface on the heads. Â*They're better than DT nipples for angled insertion (like with high hub flanges or small diameter rims). http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=pro.../product10.htm I build and repair lots of wheels with both long and short nipples, and I'm more or less indifferent either way. Â*DT standard nipples are sharply machined and true to size, but longer nipples often are more resistant to rounding off when the going gets tough. Â*Short nipples offer more options for how to take up the slack in a freshly laced wheel. Â*Long ones can work better with spokes that are a little too short. So you know, DT offers long nipples too. http://www.nationaloutdoors.net/comp...T-Swiss-Extra-.... Chalo Still no 10mm long nipples, why? Because with lotsa rims the nipple won't protrude far enough to grab with a spoke wrench. CXP-33 is a good example. The number of everyday flat top single wall rims far outnumber the likes of Cxp-33. My eye prefers a small amount of nipple showing. I'll guess the common available nipple lengths are due to automated truing machines requiring a round to locate the nipple tool. With a hand assembled and trued wheel there is simply no need for a projection greater than the nipple flats. Actually just looked at my front sprint wheel (with ferrules) and there are four or five odd length nipples, all showing just the flats. I didn't notice these oddities when building, so there certainly is no problem to them when hand building, except prerhaps if you 'need' to use a plastic bodied tool such as a Spokey. |
#14
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In praise of Sapim spokes
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Feb 1, 11:22 am, Chalo wrote: Andre Jute wrote: Chalo wrote: Danscomp.com. That is, if you're content with Sapim 14ga ($.25 ea.) or 14/15ga ($.40 ea.) spokes. They cut spokes to order, so they always have the length you want. In Europe the best touring and heavy duty wheels are built with Sapim spokes, so I would say "highly desirable", rather than "content with" which implies there is something better to aspire to. I like Sapims. In the US of A, most folks who insist on a particular kind of spoke specify DT Swiss rather than the totally satisfactory equivalents from Sapim, Wheelsmith, or Marwi. Sapims are a little softer than DTs (not that it seems to matter). I even prefer the look of their less-shiny finish and visible butting. Chalo Problem with Sapim in the US is distribution, in that nobody distributes them. KHS(not the bike but a small family run distributor) occasionally has some but their invemntory is spotty and when they DO have them, they are often only everyother size. Nobody distributes Marwi, AFAIK. Wheelsmith are poor. I have seen more than a few fail, in that they give up their strength when tensioning and stretch to the point of failure. Tightening a nipple makes them longer/looser, not tighter. ditto that. We prefer to have spokes shipped to us straight from the factory which is faster and orders arrive 100% filled, which is more than I can say for any USA distributor. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#15
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In praise of Sapim spokes
On 2/2/2011 9:35 AM, Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
Wheelsmith are poor. I have seen more than a few fail, in that they give up their strength when tensioning and stretch to the point of failure. Tightening a nipple makes them longer/looser, not tighter. Older Wheelsmith spokes made in Montana, or newer Wheelsmith spokes made in Milwaukee (after being purchased by Sun-Ringle)? The production equipment is completely different, and the source wire may be different. -- Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007 I am a vehicular cyclist. |
#16
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In praise of Sapim spokes
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Feb 1, 2:04 pm, thirty-six wrote: Still no 10mm long nipples, why? Because with lotsa rims the nipple won't protrude far enough to grab with a spoke wrench. CXP-33 is a good example. That and better still the CXP30. Now that was a road rim with balls. JS. |
#17
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In praise of Sapim spokes
thirty-six wrote:
(snip) My eye prefers a small amount of nipple showing. (snip) Sorry, couldn't resist. |
#18
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In praise of Sapim spokes
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
Chalo wrote: I like Sapims. *In the US of A, most folks who insist on a particular kind of spoke specify DT Swiss rather than the totally satisfactory equivalents from Sapim, Wheelsmith, or Marwi. Problem with Sapim in the US is distribution, in that nobody distributes them. KHS(not the bike but a small family run distributor) occasionally has some but their invemntory is spotty and when they DO have them, they are often only everyother size. I get Sapim spokes from Dan's Competition and Thor USA. Nobody distributes Marwi, AFAIK. Somebody does, because my local BMX shop (which is also an online retailer) sells lots of Marwi spokes. Wheelsmith are poor. I have seen more than a few fail, I saw some in the old days that broke at the transition between diameters. I have seen no other spoke do that. in that they give up their strength when tensioning and stretch to the point of failure. Tightening a nipple makes them longer/looser, not tighter. I've observed that phenomenon in wheels that were so bent as to require gross overtensioning of isolated spokes to true them. The example that sticks in my mind was a wheel with 15/16ga spokes that had no head markings, but which did have Wheelsmith-style abrupt diameter transitions. Most of my experience with Wheelsmith spokes has been with their 13/14ga single-butted spokes, which do not exhibit either of the aforementioned problems. I don't know why I'd ever buy other kinds of Wheelsmith spokes, since DT Swiss spokes are easier to get and cost about the same. Sapim spokes are cheaper than either one-- I can get them retail in exact quantities at Dan's Competition for less than the wholesale box price of DTs. Chalo |
#19
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In praise of Sapim spokes
AMuzi wrote:
We prefer to have spokes shipped to us straight from the factory which is faster and orders arrive 100% filled, which is more than I can say for any USA distributor. My main wholesaler delivers in under 24 hours (which is why it's my main wholesaler). Chalo |
#20
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In praise of Sapim spokes
On 2/2/2011 10:14 PM, Chalo Colina wrote:
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote: [...] Wheelsmith are poor. I have seen more than a few fail, I saw some in the old days that broke at the transition between diameters. I have seen no other spoke do that.[...] Those had the butting formed by grinding. With the purchase by Sun-Ringle and move to Milwaukee, equipment for forming the butting by swaging was obtained. -- Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007 I am a vehicular cyclist. |
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