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In praise of Sapim spokes
On Feb 1, 4:53*pm, Chalo wrote:
Danscomp.com. *That is, if you're content with Sapim 14ga ($.25 ea.) or 14/15ga ($.40 ea.) spokes. *They cut spokes to order, so they always have the length you want. In Europe the best touring and heavy duty wheels are built with Sapim spokes, so I would say "highly desirable", rather than "content with" which implies there is something better to aspire to. Trivia: Sapim in Belgium makes, originally for the builders of my fave bike, Utopia, but now sold to everyone, a special spoke for the Rohloff hub gearbox. The difference is in the angle of the head. Can you improve Sapim spokes? Sure. The butting is abrupt and plain ugly. Just about every other spoke I see is butted more elegantly. I suppose that the longer the transition, the more weight is added. But, since weight at those fractions of a gram are irrelevant on my bike, I wouldn't mind a more elegant butt. I have some really elegant wheels, strong as all getout on even 28 spokes, said to have been built for my tiny-run Benelux-only Trek by Keith Bontrager himself (yeah, I know, likely!) but if forced to choose, I'd probably go with the fat Sapim-spoked wheel as likely to last longer. André Jute No, ladies, I'm not talking about your seat |
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#2
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In praise of Sapim spokes
Andre Jute wrote:
Chalo wrote: Danscomp.com. *That is, if you're content with Sapim 14ga ($.25 ea.) or 14/15ga ($.40 ea.) spokes. *They cut spokes to order, so they always have the length you want. In *Europe the best touring and heavy duty wheels are built with Sapim spokes, so I would say "highly desirable", rather than "content with" which implies there is something better to aspire to. I like Sapims. In the US of A, most folks who insist on a particular kind of spoke specify DT Swiss rather than the totally satisfactory equivalents from Sapim, Wheelsmith, or Marwi. Sapims are a little softer than DTs (not that it seems to matter). I even prefer the look of their less-shiny finish and visible butting. Chalo |
#3
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In praise of Sapim spokes
On Feb 1, 12:22*pm, Chalo wrote:
Andre Jute wrote: Chalo wrote: Danscomp.com. *That is, if you're content with Sapim 14ga ($.25 ea.) or 14/15ga ($.40 ea.) spokes. *They cut spokes to order, so they always have the length you want. In *Europe the best touring and heavy duty wheels are built with Sapim spokes, so I would say "highly desirable", rather than "content with" which implies there is something better to aspire to. I like Sapims. *In the US of A, most folks who insist on a particular kind of spoke specify DT Swiss rather than the totally satisfactory equivalents from Sapim, Wheelsmith, or Marwi. Sapims are a little softer than DTs (not that it seems to matter). *I even prefer the look of their less-shiny finish and visible butting. Chalo I am not fond of Sapim's nipples. The ones that Dans Comp sends with its Sapim spokes are very long and large. Not small and elegant nipples like DT. Last wheels I built I used DT spokes ordered from Starbike in Germany. |
#4
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In praise of Sapim spokes
russellseaton wrote:
I am not fond of Sapim's nipples. *The ones that Dans Comp sends with its Sapim spokes are very long and large. *Not small and elegant nipples like DT. *Last wheels I built I used DT spokes ordered from Starbike in Germany. I don't think Danscomp sends Sapim nipples; the ones I used to get with Sapim spokes from Thor USA were really nice short things with a spherical surface on the heads. They're better than DT nipples for angled insertion (like with high hub flanges or small diameter rims). http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=products&sub=nipples http://www.thorusa.com/dahon/product10.htm I build and repair lots of wheels with both long and short nipples, and I'm more or less indifferent either way. DT standard nipples are sharply machined and true to size, but longer nipples often are more resistant to rounding off when the going gets tough. Short nipples offer more options for how to take up the slack in a freshly laced wheel. Long ones can work better with spokes that are a little too short. So you know, DT offers long nipples too. http://www.nationaloutdoors.net/comp...d-Nipples.html Chalo |
#5
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In praise of Sapim spokes
On Feb 1, 7:53Â*pm, Chalo wrote:
russellseaton wrote: I am not fond of Sapim's nipples. Â*The ones that Dans Comp sends with its Sapim spokes are very long and large. Â*Not small and elegant nipples like DT. Â*Last wheels I built I used DT spokes ordered from Starbike in Germany. I don't think Danscomp sends Sapim nipples; the ones I used to get with Sapim spokes from Thor USA were really nice short things with a spherical surface on the heads. Â*They're better than DT nipples for angled insertion (like with high hub flanges or small diameter rims). http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=pro.../product10.htm I build and repair lots of wheels with both long and short nipples, and I'm more or less indifferent either way. Â*DT standard nipples are sharply machined and true to size, but longer nipples often are more resistant to rounding off when the going gets tough. Â*Short nipples offer more options for how to take up the slack in a freshly laced wheel. Â*Long ones can work better with spokes that are a little too short. So you know, DT offers long nipples too. http://www.nationaloutdoors.net/comp...T-Swiss-Extra-... Chalo Still no 10mm long nipples, why? |
#6
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In praise of Sapim spokes
Per Chalo:
but longer nipples often are more resistant to rounding off when the going gets tough .... or the operator is Magilla The Gorilla. Don't ask how I know that.... -- PeteCresswell |
#7
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In praise of Sapim spokes
On 2/1/2011 11:47 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Feb 1, 4:53 pm, wrote: Danscomp.com. That is, if you're content with Sapim 14ga ($.25 ea.) or 14/15ga ($.40 ea.) spokes. They cut spokes to order, so they always have the length you want. In Europe the best touring and heavy duty wheels are built with Sapim spokes, so I would say "highly desirable", rather than "content with" which implies there is something better to aspire to. Sapim spokes are a favorite of "jim beam" also. I prefer Wheelsmith, since I used to work across the street from the factory in Milwaukee. -- Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007 I am a vehicular cyclist. |
#8
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In praise of Sapim spokes
Chalo wrote:
russellseaton wrote: I am not fond of Sapim's nipples. The ones that Dans Comp sends with its Sapim spokes are very long and large. Not small and elegant nipples like DT. Last wheels I built I used DT spokes ordered from Starbike in Germany. I don't think Danscomp sends Sapim nipples; the ones I used to get with Sapim spokes from Thor USA were really nice short things with a spherical surface on the heads. They're better than DT nipples for angled insertion (like with high hub flanges or small diameter rims). http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=products&sub=nipples http://www.thorusa.com/dahon/product10.htm I build and repair lots of wheels with both long and short nipples, and I'm more or less indifferent either way. DT standard nipples are sharply machined and true to size, but longer nipples often are more resistant to rounding off when the going gets tough. Short nipples offer more options for how to take up the slack in a freshly laced wheel. Long ones can work better with spokes that are a little too short. So you know, DT offers long nipples too. http://www.nationaloutdoors.net/comp...d-Nipples.html Chalo I'm pleased to see that someone who knows what he is talking about (Chalo) has no objections to using long 16mm nipples where spokes are a little short. It has worked for me, but when I've done it I was afraid it was kludge city. In one case not so long ago I had a very nice old Rigida rim and a box of spokes on hand that were just right for the rear DS but three or four millimetres too short for the NDS. So, 12mm nipples on DS and 16mm on NDS produced a rear wheel that has stayed true and seems to be strong enough for the purpose. Maybe I wouldn't do it for a paying customer. PH |
#9
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In praise of Sapim spokes
On Feb 2, 6:22*am, Chalo wrote:
thirty-six wrote: Chalo wrote: russellseaton wrote: I am not fond of Sapim's nipples. *The ones that Dans Comp sends with its Sapim spokes are very long and large. *Not small and elegant nipples like DT. * I don't think Danscomp sends Sapim nipples; the ones I used to get with Sapim spokes from Thor USA were really nice short things with a spherical surface on the heads. * Still no 10mm long nipples, why? My guess? *Spoke threads are 10mm long. *With a 10mm nipple. either the thread pokes out the other side or the threads show above the nipple. *It's not a critical problem, but it's untidy. Rims with more than a minimum thickness at the spoke hole drilling might obstruct full tool access to the nipple flats if the nipples were only 10mm long. Chalo I look at my steel rimmed, steel flanged wheel I keep as a reference and it has 10mm nipples without threads showing or protruding. So it obviously can be done. I look at my alloy rimmed wheels and they all could manage with shorter nipples by two or three millimetres. Hold on there chappie, where are you measuring the nipple length? |
#10
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In praise of Sapim spokes
On Feb 2, 7:29Â*am, "Peter Howard" wrote:
Chalo wrote: russellseaton wrote: I am not fond of Sapim's nipples. The ones that Dans Comp sends with its Sapim spokes are very long and large. Not small and elegant nipples like DT. Last wheels I built I used DT spokes ordered from Starbike in Germany. I don't think Danscomp sends Sapim nipples; the ones I used to get with Sapim spokes from Thor USA were really nice short things with a spherical surface on the heads. Â*They're better than DT nipples for angled insertion (like with high hub flanges or small diameter rims). http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=products⊂=nipples http://www.thorusa.com/dahon/product10.htm I build and repair lots of wheels with both long and short nipples, and I'm more or less indifferent either way. Â*DT standard nipples are sharply machined and true to size, but longer nipples often are more resistant to rounding off when the going gets tough. Â*Short nipples offer more options for how to take up the slack in a freshly laced wheel. Â*Long ones can work better with spokes that are a little too short. So you know, DT offers long nipples too. http://www.nationaloutdoors.net/comp...T-Swiss-Extra-... Chalo I'm pleased to see that someone who knows what he is talking about (Chalo) has no objections to using long 16mm nipples where spokes are a little short. It has worked for me, but when I've done it I was afraid it was kludge city. In one case not so long ago I had a very nice old Rigida rim and a box of spokes on hand that were just right for the rear DS but three or four millimetres too short for the NDS. So, 12mm nipples on DS and 16mm on NDS produced a rear wheel that has stayed true and seems to be strong enough for the purpose. Maybe I wouldn't do it for a paying customer. PH With 14swg or 15swg? 14swg makes the brass nipple wall generally too thin to put under tension. The underside radius of the nipple head will determine whether this setup will last. Wont make any difference if you get your hands on steel nipples though. |
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