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  #1  
Old June 15th 18, 03:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Default Helmet News

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...y#.WyPRf0q99PI

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  #2  
Old June 15th 18, 05:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
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Posts: 1,035
Default Helmet News

AMuzi wrote:

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...y#.WyPRf0q99PI


"The counterfeit helmets were found not to
contain roll cages or the internal
reinforcements that are standard in
high-end authentic Specialized and
Giro bicycle helmets. When placed on a head
form and dropped onto a testing surface at
approximately 11 miles per hour, the
counterfeit helmets broke into pieces
during impact testing, resulting in direct
contact between the head forms and the
testing surface," the U.S. Attorneys Office
said in a news release.

Wow, great job by the US officers!

What kind of sentence do you get for something
like that?

And what is the Alibaba doing dealing with
knock offs? Shouldn't they be trialed as well or
is that impossible to do?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #3  
Old June 16th 18, 01:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Cimperman
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Default Helmet News

On 6/15/2018 11:54 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...y#.WyPRf0q99PI


"The counterfeit helmets were found not to
contain roll cages or the internal
reinforcements that are standard in
high-end authentic Specialized and
Giro bicycle helmets. When placed on a head
form and dropped onto a testing surface at
approximately 11 miles per hour, the
counterfeit helmets broke into pieces
during impact testing, resulting in direct
contact between the head forms and the
testing surface," the U.S. Attorneys Office
said in a news release.

Wow, great job by the US officers!

What kind of sentence do you get for something
like that?

About tree fiddy.


And what is the Alibaba doing dealing with
knock offs? Shouldn't they be trialed as well or
is that impossible to do?


Probably not a lot--but then, many people don't understand how difficult
it can be to police Chinese industry.

I read an article once about counterfeit/knockoff iPods back when they
first came out. Most of the copies were coming from China, and
manufacturers in China tend not to be vertically integrated--that is,
they don't make the entire product. They just make one part, for someone
else who ordered it. So they often don't know exactly how it gets used
or where it ends up.

To make an iPod clone, there was five major 'parts' involved: the
plastic case, the LCD screen, the printed circuit boards, the
electronics assembly, and the packaging. One estimate was that there was
a total of 120,000 different companies in China capable of making at
least one of those parts.
  #4  
Old June 15th 18, 07:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,511
Default Helmet News

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 10:48:08 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...y#.WyPRf0q99PI


So the counterfeits lacked the internal reinforcement in those top of the line
helmet models. In other words, they were like helmets that are not top of the
line.

But those inexpensive genuine are still magic.

The real problem? These Alibaba helmets were made on a production line that
didn't feature a wizard to inject the magic.

- Frank Krygowski
  #5  
Old June 15th 18, 07:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
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Posts: 1,035
Default Helmet News

Frank Krygowski wrote:

So the counterfeits lacked the internal
reinforcement in those top of the line helmet
models. In other words, they were like
helmets that are not top of the line.


What about the "counterfeits" that are
identical to the real deal only produced, in
the same factories, but off the record and then
sold thru other distribution channels? If those
items are truly identical, I suppose there is
no safety/health aspect anymore to it, just
a regular crime involving money like any other?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #6  
Old June 15th 18, 07:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Helmet News

On 6/15/2018 1:20 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 10:48:08 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...y#.WyPRf0q99PI


So the counterfeits lacked the internal reinforcement in those top of the line
helmet models. In other words, they were like helmets that are not top of the
line.

But those inexpensive genuine are still magic.

The real problem? These Alibaba helmets were made on a production line that
didn't feature a wizard to inject the magic.

- Frank Krygowski


The real punishment is trademark violation which in civil
court can be 3x damages plus costs. It's a very expensive
crime. I've known guys who won and also guys who lost in
those suits; the money really flows.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #7  
Old June 15th 18, 11:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Helmet News

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 11:20:53 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 10:48:08 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...y#.WyPRf0q99PI


So the counterfeits lacked the internal reinforcement in those top of the line
helmet models. In other words, they were like helmets that are not top of the
line.


As I read the article, the helmets didn't pass the usual impact tests.

But those inexpensive genuine are still magic.

The real problem? These Alibaba helmets were made on a production line that
didn't feature a wizard to inject the magic.


Well, it was a mail fraud and federal counterfeiting case, so helmet safety was not really the issue, but the fact is that these knock-offs were junk.

I've smashed two or three helmets, so having one that works to the extent they can work is a good thing. No, they don't protect you from all harms, etc., etc. (please refer to last 25 years of posts), but they can protect against certain harms if well manufactured.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #8  
Old June 16th 18, 04:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Helmet News

On 6/15/2018 6:52 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 11:20:53 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 10:48:08 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...y#.WyPRf0q99PI


So the counterfeits lacked the internal reinforcement in those top of the line
helmet models. In other words, they were like helmets that are not top of the
line.


As I read the article, the helmets didn't pass the usual impact tests.


Nope, that wasn't specified. They said they allowed the headform to
contact the anvil. That in itself doesn't mean they didn't pass the 300g
test.

--
- Frank Krygowski

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  #9  
Old June 17th 18, 01:29 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Helmet News

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 8:04:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/15/2018 6:52 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 11:20:53 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 10:48:08 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...y#.WyPRf0q99PI

So the counterfeits lacked the internal reinforcement in those top of the line
helmet models. In other words, they were like helmets that are not top of the
line.


As I read the article, the helmets didn't pass the usual impact tests.


Nope, that wasn't specified. They said they allowed the headform to
contact the anvil. That in itself doesn't mean they didn't pass the 300g
test.


Failing to pass some test other than the CPSC standard required for sale in the USA would make no sense from the standpoint of a criminal prosecution.

From the AUSA's trial memo:

The remaining two witnesses, Clint Mattacola and Niko Henderson, will testify about the
destructive impact tests that they conducted on Specialized and Giro bicycle helmets,
respectively. These helmets were put through a series of tests which were documented with
photos and videos. Additionally, these findings were memorialized in the form of an affidavit
written by Clint Mattacola, and a lab report written by Niko Henderson. The affidavit and lab
report indicate that both helmets failed the impact tests pursuant to CPSC 16 CFR 1203, and
therefore were unsafe for use by the general public. The affidavit written by Clint Mattacola
was provided to the defendant soon after the defendant was indicted in this case. The lab report
written by Niko Henderson was provided to the defendant on May 11, 2018, two days after the
United States received the report on May 9, 2018. The videos of both of these impact tests
were previously provided to the defendant soon after the defendant was indicted in this case.

I pulled the docket. So yes, the helmets failed to meet CPSC standards. BTW, trial transcripts were not available and may not be part of the record in the Western District of Kentucky. Oddly, there was no expert disclosure of the USA's witnesses -- but there were disclosures for the defendant. Proving that the helmets didn't meet CPSC standards is not an element of either charged crime and was probably offered on some issue relevant to sentencing, e.g. potential harm to the public.

-- Jay Beattie.



  #10  
Old June 17th 18, 04:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Helmet News

On 6/16/2018 8:29 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 8:04:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/15/2018 6:52 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 11:20:53 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 10:48:08 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...y#.WyPRf0q99PI

So the counterfeits lacked the internal reinforcement in those top of the line
helmet models. In other words, they were like helmets that are not top of the
line.

As I read the article, the helmets didn't pass the usual impact tests.


Nope, that wasn't specified. They said they allowed the headform to
contact the anvil. That in itself doesn't mean they didn't pass the 300g
test.


Failing to pass some test other than the CPSC standard required for sale in the USA would make no sense from the standpoint of a criminal prosecution.

From the AUSA's trial memo:

The remaining two witnesses, Clint Mattacola and Niko Henderson, will testify about the
destructive impact tests that they conducted on Specialized and Giro bicycle helmets,
respectively. These helmets were put through a series of tests which were documented with
photos and videos. Additionally, these findings were memorialized in the form of an affidavit
written by Clint Mattacola, and a lab report written by Niko Henderson. The affidavit and lab
report indicate that both helmets failed the impact tests pursuant to CPSC 16 CFR 1203, and
therefore were unsafe for use by the general public. The affidavit written by Clint Mattacola
was provided to the defendant soon after the defendant was indicted in this case. The lab report
written by Niko Henderson was provided to the defendant on May 11, 2018, two days after the
United States received the report on May 9, 2018. The videos of both of these impact tests
were previously provided to the defendant soon after the defendant was indicted in this case.

I pulled the docket. So yes, the helmets failed to meet CPSC standards. BTW, trial transcripts were not available and may not be part of the record in the Western District of Kentucky. Oddly, there was no expert disclosure of the USA's witnesses -- but there were disclosures for the defendant. Proving that the helmets didn't meet CPSC standards is not an element of either charged crime and was probably offered on some issue relevant to sentencing, e.g. potential harm to the public.


OK, that's information that wasn't mentioned in the article.

It's been interesting to me that the primitive helmet certification test
is so revered, despite its ignoring most TBI science since about 1970.
Yes, "no helmet can protect against all foreseeable impacts" as the
proudly state on the internal stickers. (IOW, "don't blame us if this
thing doesn't work.") But nationwide data makes it fairly clear that
approved helmets aren't making much of a difference at all, despite
hundreds of gullible "it saved my life!!!" stories.

As mentioned, the old Skid Lid helmets of 1974 or so accumulated lots of
"saved my life!!!" stories too. That's even though they didn't come
close to meeting the present standard - which some suspect was
deliberately set at a level that Bell could pass but Skid Lid could not.

Ah well. I know questioning helmets is blasphemy...


--
- Frank Krygowski

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