My Recent Bicycle Stuff Photo Albums

On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 06:56:09 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 11/2/2015 3:55 AM, John B. wrote:

snip

Right, multiple sources who were expressing an opinion. Not a single
one of your vaunted sources provided even the tiniest scrap of proof
that he/she/it knew what they were talking about.

You're the one that is claiming that it's a good idea, so it's really up
to you to provide evidence. Everyone else here agrees with all the experts.

We're all waiting, but I suspect that we'll be waiting forever.

An interesting response. Perhaps an effort to re-write history? Or
Historical Revisionism, as it is often described. "The illegitimate
distortion of the historical record."

I wrote, in the message that you are responding to, and have adroitly
snipped, as follows:

"Nope, my argument is that you very obviously didn't know what you
were talking about when you stated that one needed a fully equipped
machine shop to install a rivnut. In fact I installed one with a hand
drill, a rock and a nail and told you so. And you very delicately
tip-toed away from any sort of reply and changed the subject.

And you have, very adroitly, been avoiding the subject ever since."

And, you are simply rewriting the proof of that assertion.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 11:10:36 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Monday, November 2, 2015 at 9:56:15 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 11/2/2015 3:55 AM, John B. wrote:

snip

Right, multiple sources who were expressing an opinion. Not a single
one of your vaunted sources provided even the tiniest scrap of proof
that he/she/it knew what they were talking about.

You're the one that is claiming that it's a good idea, so it's really up
to you to provide evidence. Everyone else here agrees with all the experts.

We're all waiting, but I suspect that we'll be waiting forever.

;-) I doubt "everyone else" here agrees on anything! But from what I've seen,
the majority of posters on the subject disagree with Scharf's claim that
it's terribly risky to use a Rivnut on a bike frame.

Scharf has long had a habit of kill-filing anyone who disagrees with him
too effectively. I suppose it's an aid to pretending that most
people agree with him.

BTW, evidence in favor of Rivnuts can be found on the thousands of bikes
that use them successfully. Evidence of the simplicity of installation
is available online by googling "how to install a rivnut without special tools."
If necessary, you can also google "how to drill a hole."

- Frank Krygowski

I would kill file sms but I find it interesting to see just how long
he can carry on twisting and turning and refusing to face the reality
that "he is wrong".

I am beginning to believe that he believes, as I read in a novel,
that, "Reality is all in the mind. Reality can be whatever you want it
to be."
--
cheers,

John B.

On 11/2/2015 6:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
I'm coming around to your view, sort of.

Holy cow. Are you even allowed to _say_ that on Usenet? ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 15:41:44 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, November 2, 2015 at 11:10:40 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, November 2, 2015 at 9:56:15 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 11/2/2015 3:55 AM, John B. wrote:

snip

Right, multiple sources who were expressing an opinion. Not a single
one of your vaunted sources provided even the tiniest scrap of proof
that he/she/it knew what they were talking about.

You're the one that is claiming that it's a good idea, so it's really up
to you to provide evidence. Everyone else here agrees with all the experts.

We're all waiting, but I suspect that we'll be waiting forever.

;-) I doubt "everyone else" here agrees on anything! But from what I've seen,
the majority of posters on the subject disagree with Scharf's claim that
it's terribly risky to use a Rivnut on a bike frame.

Scharf has long had a habit of kill-filing anyone who disagrees with him
too effectively. I suppose it's an aid to pretending that most
people agree with him.

BTW, evidence in favor of Rivnuts can be found on the thousands of bikes
that use them successfully. Evidence of the simplicity of installation
is available online by googling "how to install a rivnut without special tools."
If necessary, you can also google "how to drill a hole."

With that said, I don't know if anyone here would drill a nice, modern frame. I was window shopping today -- looking for my next, super-fantastic rain bike -- and I couldn't imagine making a hole in alloy frame I looked at, and obviously not CF.

Speaking of holes -- and going back to your prior comments about the lack of fender hardware -- I'm coming around to your view, sort of. I can still understand the lack of hardware on the tight racing frames but not on the new disc-equipped "endurance" bikes or the new-new "gravel bikes."

The carbon Synapse has no through hole on the front fork, no brake bridge on the rear stays . . . no way to kludge a fender without substantial effort. Oddly enough, the carbon fork on the alloy version of the frame has eyelets and a threaded crown insert. Why not use that carbon fork on the carbon frame version? It's supposed to be an endurance bike with room for rubber, so why not?

Same goes with the Gianty Defy (eyelets only on the cheap alloy frame with 105 or Claris). I would really like to get a CAAD 12 with discs, but again, no through hole and no seat-stay bridge. The disc bikes are naturals for fender hardware. Trek has it on their disc Domane and so does Specialized on the Roubaix disc.

I think that even on the disc racing bikes (which tend to have a lot of tire clearance), they should put threaded inserts that allow you to mount the eyelets. http://tinyurl.com/ndcu9mc It seems pretty easy to implement and there is no issue with clearance (except maybe foot clearance).

-- Jay Beattie.

I don't know if one is conditioned by what "used to be" but I look at
a lot of new bikes that just don't "look right". Carbon bikes with all
the cables hidden inside the frame tubes, and the front derailer
mounted on a bracket that seemed to be held on with ,maybe, 3mm
screws?

But I did see a rather swanky time trials, or tri bike, the other day.
Special price ~about~ 10,000 US dollars. All carbon, all streamlined,
brakes behind the fork and rear triangle, etc. I think it would take
tires as large as 23 mm, too. I wanted to ask the guy how many he'd
sold (In a land where the minimum salary is 10 dollars a day :-)

--
cheers,

John B.

On 11/2/2015 5:55 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 06:56:09 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 11/2/2015 3:55 AM, John B. wrote:

snip

Right, multiple sources who were expressing an opinion. Not a single
one of your vaunted sources provided even the tiniest scrap of proof
that he/she/it knew what they were talking about.

You're the one that is claiming that it's a good idea, so it's really up
to you to provide evidence. Everyone else here agrees with all the experts.

We're all waiting, but I suspect that we'll be waiting forever.

An interesting response. Perhaps an effort to re-write history? Or
Historical Revisionism, as it is often described. "The illegitimate
distortion of the historical record."

I wrote, in the message that you are responding to, and have adroitly
snipped, as follows:

"Nope, my argument is that you very obviously didn't know what you
were talking about when you stated that one needed a fully equipped
machine shop to install a rivnut. In fact I installed one with a hand
drill, a rock and a nail and told you so. And you very delicately
tip-toed away from any sort of reply and changed the subject.

And you have, very adroitly, been avoiding the subject ever since."

And, you are simply rewriting the proof of that assertion.
--
cheers,

John B.


Was that an SAE rock or a metric rock?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 11/2/2015 6:02 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 11:10:36 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Monday, November 2, 2015 at 9:56:15 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 11/2/2015 3:55 AM, John B. wrote:

snip

Right, multiple sources who were expressing an opinion. Not a single
one of your vaunted sources provided even the tiniest scrap of proof
that he/she/it knew what they were talking about.

You're the one that is claiming that it's a good idea, so it's really up
to you to provide evidence. Everyone else here agrees with all the experts.

We're all waiting, but I suspect that we'll be waiting forever.

;-) I doubt "everyone else" here agrees on anything! But from what I've seen,
the majority of posters on the subject disagree with Scharf's claim that
it's terribly risky to use a Rivnut on a bike frame.

Scharf has long had a habit of kill-filing anyone who disagrees with him
too effectively. I suppose it's an aid to pretending that most
people agree with him.

BTW, evidence in favor of Rivnuts can be found on the thousands of bikes
that use them successfully. Evidence of the simplicity of installation
is available online by googling "how to install a rivnut without special tools."
If necessary, you can also google "how to drill a hole."

- Frank Krygowski

I would kill file sms but I find it interesting to see just how long
he can carry on twisting and turning and refusing to face the reality
that "he is wrong".

I am beginning to believe that he believes, as I read in a novel,
that, "Reality is all in the mind. Reality can be whatever you want it
to be."
--
cheers,

John B.


Meanwhile in Thailand, you no longer need chinese blinky lights:

http://ktla.com/2015/11/03/dashcam-c...over-thailand/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 11/2/2015 3:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

With that said, I don't know if anyone here would drill a nice, modern frame. I was window shopping today -- looking for my next, super-fantastic rain bike -- and I couldn't imagine making a hole in alloy frame I looked at, and obviously not CF.

Speaking of holes -- and going back to your prior comments about the lack of fender hardware -- I'm coming around to your view, sort of. I can still understand the lack of hardware on the tight racing frames but not on the new disc-equipped "endurance" bikes or the new-new "gravel bikes."

The carbon Synapse has no through hole on the front fork, no brake bridge on the rear stays . . . no way to kludge a fender without substantial effort. Oddly enough, the carbon fork on the alloy version of the frame has eyelets and a threaded crown insert. Why not use that carbon fork on the carbon frame version? It's supposed to be an endurance bike with room for rubber, so why not?

Same goes with the Gianty Defy (eyelets only on the cheap alloy frame with 105 or Claris). I would really like to get a CAAD 12 with discs, but again, no through hole and no seat-stay bridge. The disc bikes are naturals for fender hardware. Trek has it on their disc Domane and so does Specialized on the Roubaix disc.

I think that even on the disc racing bikes (which tend to have a lot of tire clearance), they should put threaded inserts that allow you to mount the eyelets. http://tinyurl.com/ndcu9mc It seems pretty easy to implement and there is no issue with clearance (except maybe foot clearance).

Go to the Taipei Cycle show sometime. Other than Trek and Specialized,
these bicycle assembly companies just look for frames and forks from
whatever manufacturer that's the cheapest and their buyers don't think
about things like fenders, racks, etc.. Today's Cannondale is not the
same as the original Cannondale. The carbon fork they sourced for the
alloy version just happened to have the eyelets and the crown insert.

Look at the Jamis Renegade line.

BTW, I think that even John would agree that no sane person would drill
holes for Rivnuts in a new frame!

On Tue, 03 Nov 2015 07:15:50 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 11/2/2015 5:55 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 06:56:09 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 11/2/2015 3:55 AM, John B. wrote:

snip

Right, multiple sources who were expressing an opinion. Not a single
one of your vaunted sources provided even the tiniest scrap of proof
that he/she/it knew what they were talking about.

You're the one that is claiming that it's a good idea, so it's really up
to you to provide evidence. Everyone else here agrees with all the experts.

We're all waiting, but I suspect that we'll be waiting forever.

An interesting response. Perhaps an effort to re-write history? Or
Historical Revisionism, as it is often described. "The illegitimate
distortion of the historical record."

I wrote, in the message that you are responding to, and have adroitly
snipped, as follows:

"Nope, my argument is that you very obviously didn't know what you
were talking about when you stated that one needed a fully equipped
machine shop to install a rivnut. In fact I installed one with a hand
drill, a rock and a nail and told you so. And you very delicately
tip-toed away from any sort of reply and changed the subject.

And you have, very adroitly, been avoiding the subject ever since."

And, you are simply rewriting the proof of that assertion.
--
cheers,

John B.


Was that an SAE rock or a metric rock?

No, it was a traditional 3rd world rock. Probably correctly measured
as equal in weight to a stated number of number of coconut shells full
of rice :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 03 Nov 2015 07:53:24 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 11/2/2015 6:02 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 11:10:36 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Monday, November 2, 2015 at 9:56:15 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 11/2/2015 3:55 AM, John B. wrote:

snip

Right, multiple sources who were expressing an opinion. Not a single
one of your vaunted sources provided even the tiniest scrap of proof
that he/she/it knew what they were talking about.

You're the one that is claiming that it's a good idea, so it's really up
to you to provide evidence. Everyone else here agrees with all the experts.

We're all waiting, but I suspect that we'll be waiting forever.

;-) I doubt "everyone else" here agrees on anything! But from what I've seen,
the majority of posters on the subject disagree with Scharf's claim that
it's terribly risky to use a Rivnut on a bike frame.

Scharf has long had a habit of kill-filing anyone who disagrees with him
too effectively. I suppose it's an aid to pretending that most
people agree with him.

BTW, evidence in favor of Rivnuts can be found on the thousands of bikes
that use them successfully. Evidence of the simplicity of installation
is available online by googling "how to install a rivnut without special tools."
If necessary, you can also google "how to drill a hole."

- Frank Krygowski

I would kill file sms but I find it interesting to see just how long
he can carry on twisting and turning and refusing to face the reality
that "he is wrong".

I am beginning to believe that he believes, as I read in a novel,
that, "Reality is all in the mind. Reality can be whatever you want it
to be."
--
cheers,

John B.


Meanwhile in Thailand, you no longer need chinese blinky lights:

http://ktla.com/2015/11/03/dashcam-c...over-thailand/

From the Bangkok Post: "... Astronomers say more such sightings are
possible since this is the time of year when the Taurid meteor shower
makes its annual appearance in the sky. "

But you have to be very, very, quick to take advantage of them while
cycling :-)

--
cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 07:11:13 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 11/2/2015 3:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

With that said, I don't know if anyone here would drill a nice, modern frame. I was window shopping today -- looking for my next, super-fantastic rain bike -- and I couldn't imagine making a hole in alloy frame I looked at, and obviously not CF.

Speaking of holes -- and going back to your prior comments about the lack of fender hardware -- I'm coming around to your view, sort of. I can still understand the lack of hardware on the tight racing frames but not on the new disc-equipped "endurance" bikes or the new-new "gravel bikes."

The carbon Synapse has no through hole on the front fork, no brake bridge on the rear stays . . . no way to kludge a fender without substantial effort. Oddly enough, the carbon fork on the alloy version of the frame has eyelets and a threaded crown insert. Why not use that carbon fork on the carbon frame version? It's supposed to be an endurance bike with room for rubber, so why not?

Same goes with the Gianty Defy (eyelets only on the cheap alloy frame with 105 or Claris). I would really like to get a CAAD 12 with discs, but again, no through hole and no seat-stay bridge. The disc bikes are naturals for fender hardware. Trek has it on their disc Domane and so does Specialized on the Roubaix disc.

I think that even on the disc racing bikes (which tend to have a lot of tire clearance), they should put threaded inserts that allow you to mount the eyelets. http://tinyurl.com/ndcu9mc It seems pretty easy to implement and there is no issue with clearance (except maybe foot clearance).

Go to the Taipei Cycle show sometime. Other than Trek and Specialized,
these bicycle assembly companies just look for frames and forks from
whatever manufacturer that's the cheapest and their buyers don't think
about things like fenders, racks, etc.. Today's Cannondale is not the
same as the original Cannondale. The carbon fork they sourced for the
alloy version just happened to have the eyelets and the crown insert.

Look at the Jamis Renegade line.

BTW, I think that even John would agree that no sane person would drill
holes for Rivnuts in a new frame!


No one was discussing drilling holes in frames except you.

I was discussing the fact that it does not, as you loudly asserted,
take a fully equipped machine shop to install a rivnut.

I even demonstrated the fact by installing one using a rock, nail, and
hand drill... But perhaps in your world that constitutes a "fully
equipped machine shop"?
--
cheers,

John B.