Brake pads for road bike (and maybe MTB)

On 12/14/2016 7:43 PM, James wrote:
On 15/12/16 09:35, Joerg wrote:
Attention, bicycle related technical topic :-)

Due to the hills here we use lots of brake pads. My road
bike has
Shimano 600 brakes. The original pads weren't that great
and I am using
Koolstop Cross Dura. They work great but sure are
expensive. It's also
kind of tough to find out which curent replacement rubbers
fit.

I ride rain or shine. Which other lower cost brands are
good all-weather
pads for caliper rim brakes?

In case anyone has info where to obtain ceramic
(motorcycle grade) brake
pads in BB5 size that would be nice. My MTB brakes are
hydraulic. In
2014 I bought a box full from Vktech at $3/pair. Came from
China, best
pads I ever had and lasted almost 1000mi/pair. Now that
I've used all of
them they are non-stock everywhere :-(



For me to ride any distance on bitumen roads, I have a hill
to climb and descend when I leave home, and when I return.
Not just a straight road hump of a hill, I'm talking average
of near 7% with steeper bits of 10%, tight corners and rough
bitumen. Each descent is 2km.

I use regular Campagnolo brake blocks on my Campagnolo brake
callipers with Campagnolo levers.

I don't have a problem.


+1
For people without problems (overanalysis, fatal tinkering,
etc) Campagnolo products rock.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 9:26:02 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/14/2016 6:47 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 2:35:14 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:


In case anyone has info where to obtain ceramic (motorcycle grade) brake
pads in BB5 size that would be nice. My MTB brakes are hydraulic. In
2014 I bought a box full from Vktech at $3/pair. Came from China, best

Speaking of, you will now have to go to eBay for your Chinese ceramic
disc pads.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Pairs-Bike...-/380980112869
Looks like Vk Tech is now some other Tech.

That's a factor that makes me reluctant to go to disc brakes. With
caliper brakes, I figure I'll always be able to get compatible brake
shoes. With dozens of proprietary disc pad designs, I'd never be sure.

Related: A few weeks ago we hosted a bike tourist who was passing
through. I think he was only the second touring cyclist visitor who had
disc brakes, so I asked him how he liked them. (Sorry, I don't remember
the brand or model.)

He liked the high stopping power, and he liked the immunity to the rain.
OTOH, he was very displeased with pad life. He talked about one tour
he had done (across Pennsylvania, IIRC, which is quite hilly) where he
found himself with essentially no brakes one day. His pads had worn
away FAR faster than he thought possible. And he had no way to
immediately buy replacements.

I assume your guest had mechanical discs. With the BB7s (probably the most common mechanical disc), pads are easy to come by, but it is true that pad life is shorter than ordinary rim brake pads. If I were on tour, I would take another set along just in case. You have to mechanically adjust them, so you generally have some idea of where you are in terms of pad life. When the pads are about done, the return springs hit the rotor and make a pinging sound, so you do have warning before all the compound is gone. To blow through a set of pads on a one-state tour is unusual, IMO, but you do hear stories of super short pad life -- typically on DH and CX bikes. I like discs because I ride a lot in the rain. If I lived in So. Cal., I wouldn't bother with them unless -- maybe -- I rode CF rims up and down long hills.

The rear BB7 on my CX commuter is not very powerful for some reason -- probably the length of the cable run and the fact that I'm not always fussing with pad adjustment. Thy hydraulic discs on my Roubaix are in a different league. I can lock up the rear wheel with not much hand pressure -- something I learned quickly. I would not use that set-up on tour though because I'm not comfortable field-repairing hydraulic brakes.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 12/15/2016 10:02 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 9:26:02 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/14/2016 6:47 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 2:35:14 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:


In case anyone has info where to obtain ceramic (motorcycle grade) brake
pads in BB5 size that would be nice. My MTB brakes are hydraulic. In
2014 I bought a box full from Vktech at $3/pair. Came from China, best

Speaking of, you will now have to go to eBay for your Chinese ceramic
disc pads.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Pairs-Bike...-/380980112869
Looks like Vk Tech is now some other Tech.

That's a factor that makes me reluctant to go to disc brakes. With
caliper brakes, I figure I'll always be able to get compatible brake
shoes. With dozens of proprietary disc pad designs, I'd never be sure.

Related: A few weeks ago we hosted a bike tourist who was passing
through. I think he was only the second touring cyclist visitor who had
disc brakes, so I asked him how he liked them. (Sorry, I don't remember
the brand or model.)

He liked the high stopping power, and he liked the immunity to the rain.
OTOH, he was very displeased with pad life. He talked about one tour
he had done (across Pennsylvania, IIRC, which is quite hilly) where he
found himself with essentially no brakes one day. His pads had worn
away FAR faster than he thought possible. And he had no way to
immediately buy replacements.

I assume your guest had mechanical discs. With the BB7s (probably the most common mechanical disc), pads are easy to come by, but it is true that pad life is shorter than ordinary rim brake pads. If I were on tour, I would take another set along just in case. You have to mechanically adjust them, so you generally have some idea of where you are in terms of pad life. When the pads are about done, the return springs hit the rotor and make a pinging sound, so you do have warning before all the compound is gone. To blow through a set of pads on a one-state tour is unusual, IMO, but you do hear stories of super short pad life -- typically on DH and CX bikes.

It wasn't clear to me whether the guy's pad wear occurred only on that
tour. Perhaps he'd had them installed for some time, but expected a
much longer life, equivalent to the life of caliper brake blocks. (The
guy was a VERY experienced bike tourist, BTW.)

I think the idea of carrying a spare set of pads makes great sense.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 2:35:14 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
Attention, bicycle related technical topic :-)

Due to the hills here we use lots of brake pads. My road bike has
Shimano 600 brakes. The original pads weren't that great and I am using
Koolstop Cross Dura. They work great but sure are expensive. It's also
kind of tough to find out which curent replacement rubbers fit.

I ride rain or shine. Which other lower cost brands are good all-weather
pads for caliper rim brakes?

In case anyone has info where to obtain ceramic (motorcycle grade) brake
pads in BB5 size that would be nice. My MTB brakes are hydraulic. In
2014 I bought a box full from Vktech at $3/pair. Came from China, best
pads I ever had and lasted almost 1000mi/pair. Now that I've used all of
them they are non-stock everywhere :-(

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

These are "semi-metalic" whatever that means: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bicycle-Bike...bbu1p4v_NwI8Ow

On 2016-12-14 17:28, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 14:35:17 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

Attention, bicycle related technical topic :-)

Due to the hills here we use lots of brake pads. My road bike has
Shimano 600 brakes. The original pads weren't that great and I am using
Koolstop Cross Dura. They work great but sure are expensive. It's also
kind of tough to find out which curent replacement rubbers fit.

I ride rain or shine. Which other lower cost brands are good all-weather
pads for caliper rim brakes?

I don't think you are going to find any. But over here I can buy some
inserts called "FUN" which seem very similar to Koolstops, you mug ht
be able to find them at a cheaper price than the original.

You might have a look at Alibaba. They are generally a listing of
wholesale dealers but sometimes you can find a place that will sell
"one-offs".

Or maybe Amazon? Or ebay?


Amazon is dry. Looks like I'll finally have to get an EBay account.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2016-12-15 06:51, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/14/2016 7:43 PM, James wrote:
On 15/12/16 09:35, Joerg wrote:
Attention, bicycle related technical topic :-)

Due to the hills here we use lots of brake pads. My road
bike has
Shimano 600 brakes. The original pads weren't that great
and I am using
Koolstop Cross Dura. They work great but sure are
expensive. It's also
kind of tough to find out which curent replacement rubbers
fit.

I ride rain or shine. Which other lower cost brands are
good all-weather
pads for caliper rim brakes?

In case anyone has info where to obtain ceramic
(motorcycle grade) brake
pads in BB5 size that would be nice. My MTB brakes are
hydraulic. In
2014 I bought a box full from Vktech at $3/pair. Came from
China, best
pads I ever had and lasted almost 1000mi/pair. Now that
I've used all of
them they are non-stock everywhere :-(



For me to ride any distance on bitumen roads, I have a hill
to climb and descend when I leave home, and when I return.
Not just a straight road hump of a hill, I'm talking average
of near 7% with steeper bits of 10%, tight corners and rough
bitumen. Each descent is 2km.

I use regular Campagnolo brake blocks on my Campagnolo brake
callipers with Campagnolo levers.

I don't have a problem.


I don't either, just gets expensive. My rides are often with a heavy
loads on the bike. Also offroad sections where the caliper brakes let
off a horrid grinding noise. That seems to eat the pads more than the
rims, which is a good thing.

+1
For people without problems (overanalysis, fatal tinkering, etc)
Campagnolo products rock.


Except for a friend of mine where an expensive crank broke, it was
clearly a manufacturing defect and they just shrugged him off. He never
bought another product from them.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2016-12-15 07:23, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/15/2016 10:02 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 9:26:02 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 12/14/2016 6:47 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 2:35:14 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:


In case anyone has info where to obtain ceramic (motorcycle grade)
brake
pads in BB5 size that would be nice. My MTB brakes are hydraulic. In
2014 I bought a box full from Vktech at $3/pair. Came from China, best

Speaking of, you will now have to go to eBay for your Chinese ceramic
disc pads.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Pairs-Bike...-/380980112869

Looks like Vk Tech is now some other Tech.

That's a factor that makes me reluctant to go to disc brakes. With
caliper brakes, I figure I'll always be able to get compatible brake
shoes. With dozens of proprietary disc pad designs, I'd never be sure.


You have to make sure your brakes take standard fare. I have Promax
Decipher hydraulic disc brakes which aren't very wide-spread in the US.
However, they take standard BB5 pads which are available everywhere.


Related: A few weeks ago we hosted a bike tourist who was passing
through. I think he was only the second touring cyclist visitor who had
disc brakes, so I asked him how he liked them. (Sorry, I don't remember
the brand or model.)

He liked the high stopping power, and he liked the immunity to the rain.
OTOH, he was very displeased with pad life. He talked about one tour
he had done (across Pennsylvania, IIRC, which is quite hilly) where he
found himself with essentially no brakes one day. His pads had worn
away FAR faster than he thought possible. And he had no way to
immediately buy replacements.


He probably used resin pads. On my MTB they are gone in less than 500mi
on the front. Sintered pads last 700-800mi and ceramic based ones like
what motorcycles have well over 1000mi. This is on turf where I am
always accelerating and braking. On roads they'd probably last thousands
of miles. Problem is, they are easy to obtain for motorcycles but not
for bicycles. I found them only from Asian sources. OTOH that's also
where good tires come from so maybe that is normal these days.


I assume your guest had mechanical discs. With the BB7s (probably the
most common mechanical disc), pads are easy to come by, but it is true
that pad life is shorter than ordinary rim brake pads. If I were on
tour, I would take another set along just in case. You have to
mechanically adjust them, so you generally have some idea of where you
are in terms of pad life. When the pads are about done, the return
springs hit the rotor and make a pinging sound, so you do have warning
before all the compound is gone.


Don't do that. I had a major jam when I let the rear pads go too far.
One of the pads slipped partly out of its normal place of employment and
locked up the rear. I came to a stop in a plume of dust. Luckily it was
the rear and I could keep them bike on the trail. There was a cliff to
the right and the landing would have been on railroad tracks.


... To blow through a set of pads on a
one-state tour is unusual, IMO, but you do hear stories of super short
pad life -- typically on DH and CX bikes.


Serious downhillers sometimes need new front pads and a new rear tire
after each race.


It wasn't clear to me whether the guy's pad wear occurred only on that
tour. Perhaps he'd had them installed for some time, but expected a
much longer life, equivalent to the life of caliper brake blocks. (The
guy was a VERY experienced bike tourist, BTW.)

I think the idea of carrying a spare set of pads makes great sense.


Nah. Unless you are planning on a trek through the Himalaya mountain
range. Even there you could probably get spares for the customary types.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 12/15/2016 6:30 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-12-15 07:23, Frank Krygowski wrote:


I think the idea of carrying a spare set of pads makes great sense.


Nah. Unless you are planning on a trek through the Himalaya mountain
range. Even there you could probably get spares for the customary types.

Well, the tourist we hosted had trouble finding replacement pads in
Pennsylvania. It's hilly and some parts are surprisingly sparsely
populated. But it's not the Himalayas.

If you're running discs, why _not_ carry spare pads? Weight?

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 12/15/2016 6:30 PM, Joerg wrote:
: On 2016-12-15 07:23, Frank Krygowski wrote:
:
:
: I think the idea of carrying a spare set of pads makes great sense.
:
:
: Nah. Unless you are planning on a trek through the Himalaya mountain
: range. Even there you could probably get spares for the customary types.

:Well, the tourist we hosted had trouble finding replacement pads in
:Pennsylvania. It's hilly and some parts are surprisingly sparsely
opulated. But it's not the Himalayas.

:If you're running discs, why _not_ carry spare pads? Weight?

A pair of disk brake pads are about the size of a match book, and
might weigh 50 grams. If you've sensible configured your touring bike
so the front and rear tae the same pads, you only need one set.

--
sig 2

On Thursday, December 15, 2016 at 10:55:39 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/15/2016 6:30 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-12-15 07:23, Frank Krygowski wrote:


I think the idea of carrying a spare set of pads makes great sense.


Nah. Unless you are planning on a trek through the Himalaya mountain
range. Even there you could probably get spares for the customary types..

Well, the tourist we hosted had trouble finding replacement pads in
Pennsylvania. It's hilly and some parts are surprisingly sparsely
populated. But it's not the Himalayas.

If you're running discs, why _not_ carry spare pads? Weight?

--
- Frank Krygowski

Hey there Frank, remember that you're talking to the guy who won't cary the extra few ounces of a multi-tool with chain breaker in it but will spend time looking for a nail, a rock to hit it with and another rock toallow the pin of a chain to go into whenever he wants to fix a chain.

Cheers