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The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
On Tue, 25 May 2004 23:16:39 +0000, Patrick Herring wrote:
IMHO a major unacknowledged factor is wanting to prolong personal space for as long as possible, particularly when commuting to work. Houses and cars are personal space; bikes, pavements, buses, offices are not. I disagree. Bikes are pretty personal. You adjust them to fit yourself, and people don't generally swap them around. Ever had one stolen? I counter you by proposing that its a misconception among non-cyclists that its common for people to borrow bikes, and that they are interchangeable. You certainly can borrow a bike, but would be uncomfortable till it gets adjusted to suit you. And they come in different sizes. |
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#92
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The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
John Hearns wrote:
I disagree. Bikes are pretty personal. You adjust them to fit yourself, and people don't generally swap them around. Ever had one stolen? Yes, but that's not really the point. If some oik wants to invade your personal space with, say, a water pistol or an insult it's far easier to do than if you're locked in an enclosed box. It's personal /space/, not a personal /thing/, that I think was Patrick's point. I counter you by proposing that its a misconception among non-cyclists that its common for people to borrow bikes, and that they are interchangeable. You certainly can borrow a bike, but would be uncomfortable till it gets adjusted to suit you. And they come in different sizes. My mum rides my Brompton quite happily without any fiddling bar not pulling the seatpost up so far when unfolding it. I'm 5'8", mum is 5'2". Not all bikes have small size range tolerances, but I think the main point is that you'd need a Velomobile for separate personal space. Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#93
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The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
On Wed, 26 May 2004 09:02:49 +0100, Peter Clinch wrote:
John Hearns wrote: I disagree. Bikes are pretty personal. You adjust them to fit yourself, and people don't generally swap them around. Ever had one stolen? Yes, but that's not really the point. If some oik wants to invade your personal space with, say, a water pistol or an insult it's far easier to do than if you're locked in an enclosed box. It's personal /space/, not a personal /thing/, that I think was Patrick's point. I wasn't wanting to be argumentative. Maybe this should be a new thread. I think non-cyclists view bicycles as all interchangeable. Maybe non-drivers see cars that way too! |
#94
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The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
John Hearns writes:
Maybe this should be a new thread. I think non-cyclists view bicycles as all interchangeable. Maybe non-drivers see cars that way too! Even drivers can - our first car I only could recognise when it had the roofbars and the kayaks on. With a later car in a rather anonymous shape and colour I usually checked the numberplate to make sure. Is there a word to describe a sort of car dyslexia? Roos |
#95
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The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
On Wed, 26 May 2004 10:54:16 +0100, John Hearns wrote:
On Wed, 26 May 2004 09:00:16 +0000, Roos Eisma wrote: Even drivers can - our first car I only could recognise when it had the roofbars and the kayaks on. With a later car in a rather anonymous shape and colour I usually checked the numberplate to make sure. Stop rubbing it in. First we get someone going off to Ardnamurchan Point. Then I realise I haven't sat in a kayak for many years. I never have but somehow I've been roped in for an "urban adventure race" in Edinburgh this summer, it involves some canoing/kayaking (I think the former), orienteering and mountain biking. It seems to use the sewers too! I guess I'd better get some learning done. Colin |
#96
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The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
On Wed, 26 May 2004 09:00:16 +0000, Roos Eisma wrote:
Even drivers can - our first car I only could recognise when it had the roofbars and the kayaks on. With a later car in a rather anonymous shape and colour I usually checked the numberplate to make sure. Stop rubbing it in. First we get someone going off to Ardnamurchan Point. Then I realise I haven't sat in a kayak for many years. |
#97
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The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
In article ,
John Hearns writes: I disagree. Bikes are pretty personal. You adjust them to fit yourself, and people don't generally swap them around. Ever had one stolen? Ever been to a city that makes "city" bikes available to whover needs them? I counter you by proposing that its a misconception among non-cyclists that its common for people to borrow bikes, and that they are interchangeable. In some more cycle-friendly countries, they may be much more so than here. You certainly can borrow a bike, but would be uncomfortable till it gets adjusted to suit you. And they come in different sizes. I don't see borrowing a bike as any different in principle to borrowing a car (I expect to do the latter two weeks hence, as it'll be the one week in the year when I'm doing more than ample physical exercise without cycling and travelling every day at times when no public transport is available). -- Nick Kew Nick's manifesto: http://www.htmlhelp.com/~nick/ |
#98
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The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
John Hearns writes:
Maybe non-drivers see cars that way [as interchangable] too! As an occaasional driver, so do I. Every time I go back to the car rental place they give me a different one. -dan -- "please make sure that the person is your friend before you confirm" |
#99
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The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
in message , Patrick Herring
') wrote: "Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote: | | That's one of the excuses. Remove that and it becomes the hills. | Or the | weather. Or the lack of changing facilities at the office. Or they | ran outta gas. Had a flat tyre. Didn't have enough money for cab | fare. Their tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend | came in from outta town. Someone stole their bike. There was an | earthquake, a terrible flood, locusts. It isn't their fault, they | swear to God! IMHO a major unacknowledged factor is wanting to prolong personal space for as long as possible, particularly when commuting to work. Houses and cars are personal space; bikes, pavements, buses, offices are not. While I'd agree with you that (in the days I worked in cities), getting back into _my_ car with _my_ familiar things around me and _my_ choice of news program or no news program was a very significant event at the end of a stressful day and this was certainly one of my reasons for travelling by car (the other being that it was 100 miles with no public transport at all on a substantial part of the route), I disagree that bicycles don't have this effect. Getting on your own familiar bike and just getting out of there is very similar (mind you, it was more similar in the days I used habitually to cycle with a walkman with loud rock music - something I wouldn't do now). Come to think of it, I have in my life commuted far more often by cycle than by any other mode of transport. -- (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/ X-no-archive: No, I'm not *that* naive. |
#100
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The _Observer_ on "deadly" bike lanes
Simon Brooke wrote:
transport at all on a substantial part of the route), I disagree that bicycles don't have this effect. Getting on your own familiar bike and just getting out of there is very similar For the likes of us, yes, but the thing you're up against here is the general public perception of bikes compared to cars. Come to think of it, I have in my life commuted far more often by cycle than by any other mode of transport. Cycling or walking have been my only regular commute modes, and I wouldn't have it any other way (in the UK, various possibilities for XC ski in colder places might be good...). Pete. -- Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
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