Involving Cyclists

Guy raised a point in the other thread, what is done around the
country to try and 'engage' cyclists?

I would be interested to hear from Spokes etc how they prosper.

In this area, which covers from Holme Moss, to border with Halifax,
Leeds Bradford, Wakefield and Barnsley.

What happened was mailshots were sent out to every listed cycling
club, flyers sent to bike shops, press releases sent to local papers
and the cycling press.

That was in about 1998, reminders have gone out periodically to try
and catch changes in club officers, new members etc.

We also get publicity in the local Sustrans Ranger newsletter.

Bearing in mind this area has a 'heritage' of cycling producing TDF
riders, olympians , and these are across the board not just road.

It seems that (IME ;-) ), cyclists don't want to go to meetings, where
they will meet the people making the decisions, the officers designing
the schemes and where schemes are tabled for discussion and
suggestions prior to being implemented.

We have also had 'speaker' such as highways maintenance engineers
telling people how to report potholes etc on a freephone, and even the
local NCS 'rep'.

I am interested to have suggestions on how to improve turnout, as more
people = more influence on the projects etc.

Martyn

Martyn Bolt wrote:
Guy raised a point in the other thread, what is done around the
country to try and 'engage' cyclists?

I would be interested to hear from Spokes etc how they prosper.

In this area, which covers from Holme Moss, to border with Halifax,
Leeds Bradford, Wakefield and Barnsley.

What happened was mailshots were sent out to every listed cycling
club, flyers sent to bike shops, press releases sent to local papers
and the cycling press.


Have you tried contacting the Leeds Cycling Action Group?
http://www.leedscyclists.org.uk/ They are actively involved with Leeds City
Council AFAIK. Don't send them a circular but phone them up or e-mail them.
I am sure they will be willing and able to help/provide pointers etc. You
might also consider getting in touch, again personally, with the local CTC
chapter for on-road provision. Since you are in an area with a great RoW
network also contact IMBA-UK for off-road (to guide policy on for example
maintenance of bridleways and byeways which is increasingly being done against
user interests with the cheap convenient "gravel it" solution).

As for "engaging" don't expect big turn outs - its usually down to a small
core of activists who are prepared to give up the not insignificant amounts of
time voluntarily. Its not an easy job for them to be heard and satisfy the
demands of diverse cycling interests.

If you want some contacts drop me an e-mail (put my first name in place of
"junk" to get past the spam dustbin)

Tony

Martyn Bolt wrote:
Guy raised a point in the other thread, what is done around the
country to try and 'engage' cyclists?

I would be interested to hear from Spokes etc how they prosper.

In this area, which covers from Holme Moss, to border with Halifax,
Leeds Bradford, Wakefield and Barnsley.

What happened was mailshots were sent out to every listed cycling
club, flyers sent to bike shops, press releases sent to local papers
and the cycling press.

That was in about 1998, reminders have gone out periodically to try
and catch changes in club officers, new members etc.

We also get publicity in the local Sustrans Ranger newsletter.

Bearing in mind this area has a 'heritage' of cycling producing TDF
riders, olympians , and these are across the board not just road.

It seems that (IME ;-) ), cyclists don't want to go to meetings, where
they will meet the people making the decisions, the officers designing
the schemes and where schemes are tabled for discussion and
suggestions prior to being implemented.

We have also had 'speaker' such as highways maintenance engineers
telling people how to report potholes etc on a freephone, and even the
local NCS 'rep'.

I am interested to have suggestions on how to improve turnout, as more
people = more influence on the projects etc.

Martyn

Wakefield MDC has set up a Cycling Forum to try and improve provision for
cyclists in the Wakefield area.It has been going for just over a year with
not a great deal to show for it.Plenty of hot air and blather and precious
little on the ground.IMHO there has to be a determination by local
councillors to improve the cyclists lot or else you are on a hiding to
nothing,the situation not being improved by Wakefield being an extremely
safe political seat so there is no pressure to improve anything ( not just
cycling ),it is not going to influence voting one jot.
I imagine that the majority of cyclists are like the majority of
non-cyclists.Political representitatives are voted in to care for the
welfare of their constiuents,the politicos become fat ,bloated and
safe,voters get apathetic and so you have stalemate and the one party
merry-go round.
Despite having a forum and hearing reassurances that cyclists interests are
put high upon the agenda there are projects in Wakefield that have been
constructed over the last few months where cyclists have not even been
thought about.Various members of the forum ( including myself ) have put
forward various route ideas with no response at all.
I am afraid ,except for the 'hardcore', that cycling is not really seen as
an important issue, by councillors and citizens alike,but only as a
'leisure' activity.No provision ? Well just jump in the car.The sad thing is
that in cities where reasonable facilities are provided they appear to be
well used and lead to a cycling infrastructure of cycle shops,cycling clubs
etc thus enhancing the local economy.

Sam Salt


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Martyn Bolt thought it would be good to say:

Guy raised a point in the other thread, what is done around the
country to try and 'engage' cyclists?

I'm afraid that it's the same as trying to "engage" the electorate
generally. There may not be a flood of cyclist turning up for your cycle
meetings, but there's probably not a flood (a seep?) of pensioners turning
up for issues concerning the elderly, or a waddle of pregnant women turning
up on issues concerning infants.
The emphasis is, I'm afraid, on you. You have to prove that there's
something worthwhile going on and that their contribution will matter, that
they can make a difference.
Alternatively, bribe them.
Most people feel very disconnected from councils and the government. They
aren't going to re-connect without it being worth their while.


Pip

"Pip" wrote in message
...

You have to prove that there's
something worthwhile going on and that their contribution will matter,
that
they can make a difference.
Alternatively, bribe them.

I don't mean this cynically but the reintroduction of the pork barrel into
politics might generate some interest.

I think the power of local politicians to make decisions is so hamstrung
that it's understandable that many people don't have any interest in them.
In the days when councillors could exert influence to win funding for
schools, sport centres or influence the selection of contractors or the
recruitment of staff people probably had a much greater interest.

On the national level there's so little difference between the parties that
it's not at all surprising that people don't think their votes will change
anything.

If you want to get people involved you have to give them a reason. It's the
pork barrel or real differences in policies.
___
Michael MacClancy

"Michael MacClancy" wrote in message
...
"Pip" wrote in message
...

You have to prove that there's
something worthwhile going on and that their contribution will matter,
that
they can make a difference.
Alternatively, bribe them.

I don't mean this cynically but the reintroduction of the pork barrel into
politics might generate some interest.

I think the power of local politicians to make decisions is so hamstrung
that it's understandable that many people don't have any interest in them.
In the days when councillors could exert influence to win funding for
schools, sport centres or influence the selection of contractors or the
recruitment of staff people probably had a much greater interest.

On the national level there's so little difference between the parties
that
it's not at all surprising that people don't think their votes will change
anything.

If you want to get people involved you have to give them a reason. It's
the
pork barrel or real differences in policies.
___
Michael MacClancy


Alternately...my parents were never interested in politics and their parents
before them. It's a real 'us and them' thing where there's 'us' getting on
with having to live our lives despite the obstacles that 'them' put in the
way. Any time I have ever encountered politicians I've come away with a bad
taste in my mouth and whilst I appreciate that to say " every politician is
a jumped up self opinionated tw*t with an over-inflated sense of self worth"
is as much an inaccurate a generalism as to say "all cyclists are lycra clad
louts", I will never manage to raise much interest in it. After all, if it
weren't for 'them', who would we whinge about when things don't go the way
we want ?? ;-)
I also hasten to add that in my capacities as pedestrian, driver, father,
divorced father and general non-minority group individual, I have never made
representations to anybody regards facilities / rights or much else
really....and I strongly suspect that 90% of the nation could probably make
the same claim.....
Oooops, sorry!! Christmas day rant bought on by too much chocolate
Dave
ps - politicians, not to be confused with local government employees who
deliver the services - Generally I have the utmost respect for these
individuals who are faced with both difficult circumstances and a scutter
public!!

"(T'other) Dave" wrote in message
...

too much chocolate

I've never heard it called that before!

;-) Simonb

"news.aaisp.net.uk" sbennett@YOU AREALLHERETICSwiderworld.co.uk wrote in
message .. .

"(T'other) Dave" wrote in message
...

too much chocolate

I've never heard it called that before!

;-) Simonb



heh-heh...must be getting old ;-(
Dave.

On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 15:24:56 -0000, "\(T'other\) Dave"
wrote:

ps - politicians, not to be confused with local government employees who
deliver the services - Generally I have the utmost respect for these
individuals who are faced with both difficult circumstances and a scutter
public!!

You'll be saying Yes minister etc was simply television comedy and
not a parody on reality next.

When it comes to managing public finances etc I'm with Tony Benn,
never give anyone a position unless you can vote them out!

You can't do that with civil servants

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:43:17 +0000 someone who may be Martyn Bolt
wrote this:-

I would be interested to hear from Spokes etc how they prosper.

Take a look at their web site. There might be some information to
glean there.

Don't expect to be spoon fed, which your question implies you are
after. In this and another thread you have already got plenty of
good advice, though you may not like some of it.

As has been said, your question is a broad one. Government
"consultation" is a difficult subject. It often appears that such
"consultation" is in fact nothing of the sort. Rather it appears to
be a public relations exercise to "legitimise" decisions that have
already been taken.

What happened was mailshots were sent out to every listed cycling
club,

Cycling clubs tend to be about sports cycling, on track and road.
The mailshots are probably irrelevant to them as a club, though not
necessarily to some of their members.

Of course the biggest cycling club is the Cyclists Touring Club, by
whatever name and lack of correct English usage it is calling itself
at the moment. They have a set of members who work very hard on
"local" issues. Was information sent to them and to their
headquarters? If they did not respond then this is probably a
problem of the "local" organisation, which happens in organisations
with a large geographical spread.

flyers sent to bike shops,

Bike shops tend to have all sorts of fliers in them. Worth doing,
but I would not expect a great response.

press releases sent to local papers

Who will probably put it in their sports section.

and the cycling press.

Which is almost entirely sports/leisure orientated. This may be the
sort of cycling the council is interested in, given the descriptions
people have given of a pet project in another thread.

We also get publicity in the local Sustrans Ranger newsletter.

Leisure orientated.

It seems that (IME ;-) ), cyclists don't want to go to meetings, where
they will meet the people making the decisions, the officers designing
the schemes and where schemes are tabled for discussion and
suggestions prior to being implemented.

Let me remind you of the objections to government road
"consultations". Those inside the tent have decided that there is a
problem, they have decided what the problem is and they have decided
what the "solution" is to be (which is a large road from A to B).
Having gone through all of this they then "consult" the public by
preparing a few minor variations to the road between A and B. The
public are then allowed to "decide" on some of these minor
variations.

The same objections tend to apply to cycle scheme "consultation" as
well. They are possible to avoid, but this needs a culture change by
officials and party politicians that goes well beyond one area.

We have also had 'speaker' such as highways maintenance engineers
telling people how to report potholes etc on a freephone, and even the
local NCS 'rep'.

What is the e-mail address to report potholes? Having reported
something how quickly is it fixed and what feedback is provided to
the person making the report?

I am interested to have suggestions on how to improve turnout, as more
people = more influence on the projects etc.

1) Party politicians and officials need to demonstrate that they
have learnt the most basic lesson of how to gather public opinion.
By design humans have one mouth and two ears. Read, mark and
inwardly digest this fact.

2) There is a high level of cynicism. Many people have wasted a lot
of time putting their ideas to government, only to see these ideas
dismissed with personal insults, just ignored, or not understood.
Government has a hell of a task to convince the public that they
will get a better reception next time. People remember bad things
far more than when government got it right.

3) The council may well have decided their priority is to build a
cycle path from A to B. So what? They may sincerely believe that
this will improve things for cyclists, but in actual fact the
unconscious thinking will be to "get those dammed cyclists out of
the way of [motor] traffic".

4) How many roundabouts have the council removed in the last year? A
roundabout removal programme, to make things safer for cyclists and
pedestrians, is a mark of a good council.

5) How many officials and party politicians have read "Cyclecraft"?
Edinburgh also does a good cycle design guide, which says in a few
pages what needs to be said.

6) Is the council discouraging cycling with land use planning and
road design decisions? Whether it is actively or passively
discouraging cycling is a moot point, the effect is the same.

7) Where are meetings held and when?

8) When cyclists think it worthwhile taking a day off work or giving
up their spare time from the other pressing calls on it, then they
will get involved with the council.



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