Redline Conquest

On 10/22/2019 9:53 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 22, 2019 at 1:55:26 PM UTC+2, sms wrote:
On 10/21/2019 8:34 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I have them on a disc CX bike that has QRs, and they're not getting ground off. I also have them on a Emonda SLR frame, and they're not getting ground off. Why grind up a nice set of light CF forks? I'm not racing, and they do have a legitimate safety function.

People grind them off on principle. "I'm smart enough to check the QRs
before each ride so why should I have to take three more seconds to
remove a wheel when fixing a flat or putting the bike on a fork mount rack?

On principle? Really? I think people who grind them off know what they doing and made a risk assessment for their situation before doing that. They don't need a snotty remark from someone who 'benefit' from lawyer lips.

I think that Jay actually doesn't benefit from "lawyer lips." They've
eliminated lawsuits based on wheels falling off. I wonder what happens
if someone that's ground off the lawyer lips sells the bike to someone
who doesn't realize what's been done. Who gets sued in that case? I can
see the plaintiff's lawyer insisting that the bike manufacturer never
explicitly stated that the lawyer lips should not be removed.

However it is true that for those that are less mechanically inclined,
they are more likely to screw things up with lawyer lips because they
don't understand that they need to manually loosen and tighten the nut.
They may use the QR lever as a wing nut.

I've never seen anyone lose a wheel, either before or after lawyer lips
were introduced. However what I have seen is a bicycle on a fork mount
roof rack going down the highway with one side of the fork out of the
mount, and the bike at a 20-30 degree angle on the rack. That was
probably the end of that fork. The driver was oblivious to what was
happening.

On Tuesday, 22 October 2019 14:21:59 UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 10/22/2019 9:53 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 22, 2019 at 1:55:26 PM UTC+2, sms wrote:
On 10/21/2019 8:34 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I have them on a disc CX bike that has QRs, and they're not getting ground off. I also have them on a Emonda SLR frame, and they're not getting ground off. Why grind up a nice set of light CF forks? I'm not racing, and they do have a legitimate safety function.

People grind them off on principle. "I'm smart enough to check the QRs
before each ride so why should I have to take three more seconds to
remove a wheel when fixing a flat or putting the bike on a fork mount rack?

On principle? Really? I think people who grind them off know what they doing and made a risk assessment for their situation before doing that. They don't need a snotty remark from someone who 'benefit' from lawyer lips.

I think that Jay actually doesn't benefit from "lawyer lips." They've
eliminated lawsuits based on wheels falling off. I wonder what happens
if someone that's ground off the lawyer lips sells the bike to someone
who doesn't realize what's been done. Who gets sued in that case? I can
see the plaintiff's lawyer insisting that the bike manufacturer never
explicitly stated that the lawyer lips should not be removed.

However it is true that for those that are less mechanically inclined,
they are more likely to screw things up with lawyer lips because they
don't understand that they need to manually loosen and tighten the nut.
They may use the QR lever as a wing nut.

I've never seen anyone lose a wheel, either before or after lawyer lips
were introduced. However what I have seen is a bicycle on a fork mount
roof rack going down the highway with one side of the fork out of the
mount, and the bike at a 20-30 degree angle on the rack. That was
probably the end of that fork. The driver was oblivious to what was
happening.

In department stores I've seen bicycles with the front fork on backwards, brake levers that hit the handlebar before the brake pads hit the rims, quick-release wheels with loose skewers, quick-release wheels with the lever facing frontwards on t he front wheel or downwards on the front wheel and many other assembly errors. These were all on bicycles being sold to the public and were so called ready to go.

When I mention using the quick release like a one-ear wingnut upthread, I was talking about bicycles WITHOUT lawyer lips.

Cheers

On 10/22/2019 2:21 PM, sms wrote:


I've never seen anyone lose a wheel, either before or after lawyer lips
were introduced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuFejyvKhq8

and many others. Admittedly, you can find anything on YouTube.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, October 22, 2019 at 4:55:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 10/21/2019 8:34 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I have them on a disc CX bike that has QRs, and they're not getting ground off. I also have them on a Emonda SLR frame, and they're not getting ground off. Why grind up a nice set of light CF forks? I'm not racing, and they do have a legitimate safety function.

People grind them off on principle. "I'm smart enough to check the QRs
before each ride so why should I have to take three more seconds to
remove a wheel when fixing a flat or putting the bike on a fork mount rack?

It isn't a bother putting your bike on the rack. It is a REAL bother along side of a busy high speed road trying to get the hell out of there before some lout talking on his cell phone center punches you at 60 mph.

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 08:04:31 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 10/22/2019 1:44 AM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 18:04:56 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 20:54:11 UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 07:47:05 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 10:41:09 UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 12:22:06 AM UTC+2, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 3:12:32 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 11:59:37 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
Everyone always grinds lawyer's lips off as a first order of maintenance.

Really? On CF forks? Not me.

-- Jay Beattie.

As much as it pains me, I'll sort of agree with Tom on this. On all but one of my bikes I have ground off the tabs on the fork ends. The only fork I did not grind off is a carbon fork with an aero blade so the fork end is about 2 inches long. Can't grind that much metal off. All my carbon forks have aluminum dropouts, not carbon dropouts. So grinding is safe.

Even on carbon dropouts I grind off the laywer lips. On my CF bikes it is just a little carbon blob. Grinding, actually filling, off that little blob doesn't compromize the strength of your fork. It is as save as shorten your CF steerer tube or MTB handlebar. There is no load on that part.



Which brings up an irritation. With no fork tabs, you do not have to unscrew the dropout nut. Just flip the lever and the wheel falls out and goes back in perfectly. But sometimes when getting rides from friends, they will take the front wheel off my bike to put it on a rack. And when they take the front wheel off, the very first thing they do is start unscrewing the quick release nut. Which messes up my quick release width and I have to then readjust the dang thing when putting the wheel back on. Most bicyclists have been made stupid and dumb from this dumb fork tab feature. They no longer know how to correctly remove a front wheel on a bicycle.

+1 Laywer lips is an incredible stupid safety feature. Every time you take out your frontwheel creates a safety hazard.

Lou

Lawyer Lips almost defeat the purpose of having a quick release.

Cheers

Really? I can't say that I have any problems removing a wheel, with a
quick release, from a fork with lawyer's lips.
--
cheers,

John B.

You have to turn the quick release lever to open the thing enough to get past those lawyer lips. Without the lawyer lips you just need to open the quick release to drop out the wheel.

Cheers

True, but trying to wiggle the wheel up under the fender or get both
ends of the axle in the slot while holding the rear derailer so the
chain is loose I almost always end up winding the quick release almost
off, lips or no lips :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

?? derailleur?

I don't speak French :-)

Rears don't have wheel retention devices as an unsecured
wheel simply drags on the chainstay without a rider safety
aspect.

No wheel retention, but trying to hold the rear of the bike up off the
ground, hold the derailer back to clear the cassette, make sure that
the chain isn't going to fall in the dirt, and wiggle the axle out of
the drop outs, I always seem to have to loosen the quick release a
considerable way.

And putting the wheel back on is even worse :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On 10/22/2019 9:26 AM, wrote:

snip

I can't even see why you would use carbon dropouts since the material is not designed to have extreme pressure applied in the fashion of a quick release and there wouldn't be weight saved because the carbon would have to be thicker than normal and very dense.

Because it's carbon.

On 10/21/2019 9:36 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Frank has commented on the mechanical ability of the average
him/her/it and I think that he is right. If you doubt me just go to
any big box store and watch the guy assembling bicycles :-)

We don't have many Walmarts around my area but the one in Mountain View
used to have a real bike shop with a real bicycle mechanic in the front
of the store. It may have been a leased out department. They removed it
at least ten years ago. Now all the bicycle accessories are locked up in
cases, I guess they are high theft items.

On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 1:36:21 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:

Again, skippy, The link you posted directly contradicts your claim. So, who is it that doesn't know what they're talking about?

On the smartest day of your life you couldn't out-think a tin pan could
you?

That's a question you should be asking yourself.

Someone that claims to be the world's expert in anything and
everything

I've never claimed that. Not even close. In fact, I'm smart enough to know that the more I learn, the more I find out I don't know. You don't seem to understand the complexity of life in general.

cannot even understand the English Language.

You me the english language in your link that lists specific riders bikes that are equipped with discs?

You really are beyond pathetic. Rather than actually address the issue, the entire content of your argument is 'you're stupid'. You really aren't with the trouble.

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 8:52:56 AM UTC-7, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 1:36:21 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:

Again, skippy, The link you posted directly contradicts your claim. So, who is it that doesn't know what they're talking about?

On the smartest day of your life you couldn't out-think a tin pan could
you?

That's a question you should be asking yourself.

Someone that claims to be the world's expert in anything and
everything

I've never claimed that. Not even close. In fact, I'm smart enough to know that the more I learn, the more I find out I don't know. You don't seem to understand the complexity of life in general.

cannot even understand the English Language.

You me the english language in your link that lists specific riders bikes that are equipped with discs?

You really are beyond pathetic. Rather than actually address the issue, the entire content of your argument is 'you're stupid'. You really aren't with the trouble.

You mean the list that shows more riders ride with rim brakes than disks? And despite saying that they use disks on TT bikes the vast majority don't? Or that Guess Who didn't even ride his sponsor's bike because it had disks on the TT bike?

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 3:45:07 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 8:52:56 AM UTC-7, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 1:36:21 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:

Again, skippy, The link you posted directly contradicts your claim. So, who is it that doesn't know what they're talking about?

On the smartest day of your life you couldn't out-think a tin pan could
you?

That's a question you should be asking yourself.

Someone that claims to be the world's expert in anything and
everything

I've never claimed that. Not even close. In fact, I'm smart enough to know that the more I learn, the more I find out I don't know. You don't seem to understand the complexity of life in general.

cannot even understand the English Language.

You me the english language in your link that lists specific riders bikes that are equipped with discs?

You really are beyond pathetic. Rather than actually address the issue, the entire content of your argument is 'you're stupid'. You really aren't with the trouble.

You mean the list that shows more riders ride with rim brakes than disks? And despite saying that they use disks on TT bikes the vast majority don't? Or that Guess Who didn't even ride his sponsor's bike because it had disks on the TT bike?

Your initial post was wrong. Mavic neutral support does carry disc wheels https://tinyurl.com/yyc25cmv; pros riding flat-inducing courses like the Paris Roubaix are riding discs, including this year's winner. https://www.cyclingnews.com/features...at-debut-race/ Some pro teams use disc wheels and some do not. When the spring classics start, we'll have a better idea of who is riding what. BTW, Alaphilippe won the TdF TT on a disc-equipped Specialized Shiv: https://www.bicycling.com/tour-de-fr...n-alaphilippe/

Most people do not fear discs. I was riding rim brakes today, and in the wet leaves and muck, the pads sounded like a lathe on my tender aluminum brake tracks on the Dura-Ace wheels. I wish I had discs. In fact, I wish I had a gravel bike rather than a race bike on the leaf covered dirt road climb.

-- Jay Beattie.