Bulletproof Accessories for Bikers?

(Steve McDonald)

wrote:

Well, you didn't read either my message or the linked article as
carefully as you might have. The article stated that the victim said he
heard several shots at the time he was hit in the shoulder. I included
in my posting a reference about how he had ridden home after the
incident.

Your presumption that this biker was lying and fabricated the
incident is unfounded. No evidence of this has been presented and
unless you have a secret line of information, you couldn't know one way
or the other. I believe you mentioned once that you are a police
officer. It's not encouraging that a policeman would be that cynical
and disbelieving of a claim made about a potentially deadly assault,
without any more knowledge of it than this.

Steve McDonald

Yes, I read both your post and the linked article. That article does indeed say
that the alleged victim claimed that he heard several shots but he was only
*hit* once. I interpreted literally your statement that he "was gunned down by
a flurry of shots". I assume that you see the difference between hearing
several gunshots and being struck once and "being gunned down by a flurry of
shots". The latter at least implies being hit numerous times.
As for what you term my cynicism, it's a product of hearing all kinds of these
stories (on average, one or two a month) and finding out that the "victim" is
lying about everything except his wound. It's also just commonsense. Think
about the circumstances. This poor innocent was just riding along minding his
own business when he was intentionally shot for no apparent reason by someone
he didn't know. He saw his alleged attackers and hence could conceivably
identify them so what did those bloodthirsty thrillseekers do? They drove off.
I can only imagine the conversation in the alleged offenders' vehicle.

Bad guy driver- "There's someone. Shoot him."
BANG!!!! BANG!!!! BANG!!!! BANG!!!!
First bad guy- "Hey, cool! We hit him!"
Second bad guy- "Let me finish him off."
Bad guy driver- "Oh no, we'll *wound* total strangers for no other reason than
it's fun but we don't want to *kill* them. Besides, it'll be lots more fun if
we let him drive off so he can describe us and our truck to the police later."

The alleged victim then drove not to the nearest phone or the police station or
a hospital but to his home. Is that what *you* would do if some stranger in a
easily identifiable vehicle in a remote (remote meaning that there aren't that
many vehicles around anyway, let alone ones so easily spotted) area shot *you*
for no reason at all?

Regards,
Bob Hunt

(Steve McDonald) wrote:


Does anyone know of a good source of Kevlar or other types of
bulletproof vests, suitable for bicyclists? How about helmets and
fairings that would deflect bullets? I think I may need such things if
I'm going to continue riding on remote roads in my area.

Kevlar soft body armour ("bullet proof" is a misnomer, no manufacturer
calls it that) is typically sold by police supply houses, but...
a) few reputable ones will sell to civilians
b) its heavier than it looks
c) be prepared to spend a minimum of $800

"Hunrobe" wrote in message
...
[...]
As for what you term my cynicism, it's a product of hearing all kinds of
these
stories (on average, one or two a month) and finding out that the "victim"
is
lying about everything except his wound. It's also just commonsense. Think
about the circumstances. This poor innocent was just riding along minding
his
own business when he was intentionally shot for no apparent reason by
someone
he didn't know.

Ever hear of road rage? I'm sure you're cycnical for good reason. But can't
you allow for the _possibility_ that the guy is an innocent bystander?

But I do understand the cynicism. A while back I saw an segment on 'Cops'
where the to John Q.'s answer a call from a white California surfer dude
type. It seems a couple of big black gangbangers had stolen his motorcycle.
It seemed rather sraight forward to me but the cops said: wait a minute.
They were suspicious of what surfer dude was doing in that area. They got
him to admit he was trying to score some bud and the dealers had taken his
bike. I never thought along those lines, watching the show but the police
were right to be suspicious given the neighbourhood [i.e. white surfer dude
in a poor black area]. But what really depressed me was the thought that the
good ol' Ewe Ess uv Eh is so unofficially segregated by race and wealth that
public areas are unofficially off-limits based on race and class.

Still why couldn't the original story be as reported? An LE should be
suspicious but not paranoid. It could have been a road rage and the cyclist
went home instead of to a hospital because: He didn't realize he was shot,
didn't know what to do, was in shock, confused.

[...]
He saw his alleged attackers and hence could conceivably
identify them so what did those bloodthirsty thrillseekers do? They drove
off.
I can only imagine the conversation in the alleged offenders' vehicle.

A couple of rednecks letting off a few rounds then hightailing it without
knowing whether they actually hit anyone or whether they're dead? I can
believe that.
[...]

The alleged victim then drove not to the nearest phone or the police
station or
a hospital but to his home. Is that what *you* would do if some stranger
in a
easily identifiable vehicle in a remote (remote meaning that there aren't
that
many vehicles around anyway, let alone ones so easily spotted) area shot
*you*
for no reason at all?

I repeat: Road rage. It's been in all papers.


--
'Sell your sin
Just cash in' -Jewell

On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 19:07:44 -0700 (PDT), Steve McDonald
wrote:
As for these incidents I described, I don't think things around
here are any worse or different than in other parts of the country or
the world. We generally have a low level of violent crime here, but as
overpopulation and its conflicts sweep over us all, our region suffers
along with everywhere else.

Well, come to Rhode Island. The crime and thuggery
happens in the form of governemnt corruption,
rather than personal danger...unless you venture
into the, er, lower-class urban areas.

I do ride many other places, but thugs like those in that pickup
"gunship" may be anyplace I could go. In fact, I wouldn't expect that
bunch to return to that road soon, but to go hunting some distance away.

I can't say as I recall anything like that ever
happening around here.

As for arming myself, it would be futile in avoiding random and
unexpected assaults from passing vehicles. When I went through a police

No, it wouldn't be futile. You will either kill
the offenders, or discourage them from doing it
again. Either way, the good guys win.

Of course, if you kill one of them, you end up
in trouble, but if I lived somewhere where I had
that kind of stuff to fear, and was unwilling to
move far away, I'd certainly put my clean record
on the line for the greater good.

Heheh..easier said than done, I bet. We'll see
if I ever get a chance to put my money where my
mouth is.

packed one, I'd feel less secure, knowing what I might be goaded into
doing with it. I'd like to think my self-control would win out, but who

Maybe, god forbid, you would do away with some
of our societal garbage. How do we benefit from
having thugs who shoot random road users? Are
they otherwise nice people, volunteering to
help disabled war veterans or something?

knows what could happen? After all, I have been known to ride a
mountain bike, on occasion.

Bah! You die-hard roadies are all the same.

Road and mountain biking are complimentary
excersizes. Doing both improves both more than
the sum of doing each individually. This, from
experience.

The threat of having a gun to use is much more effective than in
actually using it. But, if it's concealed, how would it have any value

Actually using it is rather effective; a dead
asshole can't shoot another defenseless rider.

to ward off assaults? Only if people knew you had a hidden weapon,
would it be a deterent

Don't conceal it; show it off, if you want a
deterrant.

and then someone might pick you off with a sucker shot.

As opposed to the way it is for you now? They are
already picking people off with sucker shots.

In 3 years as a policeman, I drew my .45 just 3 times, never firing

Great record, especially given the crime you must
have dealt with (unless you didn't do it in the
area where you now ride).

it. I was shot only once, by "friendly" fire from another officer, who
should neither have drawn nor fired his weapon at an undetermined
target, not considering that I was in the line of fire, some distance

How bad was it? I hope you weren't too badly
injured.

OTOH, here in RI, we had a standoff situation,
at 3am on a saturday night or some such, in a
dense urban area at a diner; then, an off-duty
officer, dressed like a scumbag, rushed out of
the diner with his weapon raised and did not
identify himself after being repeated commanded
to do so, resulting in his being killed by the
on-duty officers responding to the original
event. I hope you never make that mistake.

I hope nobody ever makes that mistake, because
it is fatal. Strangely, or maybe not so strange,
people turned it into a racial issue, saying
that the guy was shot because he was black, and
his mother sued the police department, etc...

away. Most often, when people fire guns at others, much more trouble is
generated, than is solved. I've never yet encountered a threat against
which I might have effectively used a gun, that I wasn't able to either
avoid or resolve without firing one. Obviously, my military service
came in peacetime. If we get invaded by an armed enemy, everything I
just stated is suspended.

The situation you live in is not peace, it IS
war. Just because it's against the individuals
that make up the dregs of our society, does not
mean that force is inappropriate. They will
continue as long as they can force you to wear
a bulletproof vest and helmet while bicycling.

Once they find their lives are in as much danger,
it will no longer be worth continuing; and those
who do continue will become extinct.

In suggesting carrying guns, I've often cited a
statistic I read that Vermont had the second
lowest violent, non-violent, and combined crime
rates (second only to North Dakota, whose
residents are primarily cows); and noted that
Vermont legislates only that it's own towns may
not make any gun laws -- so anybody is allowed
to have, carry, and/or conceal any weapon as
allowed by federal law.

I just googled it up, and found that while it's
not always exactly 2nd lowest, it is within the
best 6 for most of the ways you can view the
statistics at
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/vtcrime.htm

Steve McDonald
--
Rick Onanian

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 22:41:47 GMT, bgaudet0801
wrote:
Still why couldn't the original story be as reported? An LE should be
suspicious but not paranoid. It could have been a road rage and the
cyclist
went home instead of to a hospital because: He didn't realize he was
shot, didn't know what to do, was in shock, confused.

....or he was hurt, closer to home than a hospital,
and went the first place he could think of to call
for help.

--
Rick Onanian

"bgaudet0801"

wrote in part:

I repeat: Road rage. It's been in all papers.


And I repeat: Don't believe everything you read in the papers.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Rick Onanian

wrote:


wrote:
Still why couldn't the original story be as reported? An LE should be
suspicious but not paranoid. It could have been a road rage and the
cyclist
went home instead of to a hospital because: He didn't realize he was
shot, didn't know what to do, was in shock, confused.

...or he was hurt, closer to home than a hospital,
and went the first place he could think of to call
for help.

--
Rick Onanian

All of the above is of course possible. Remember that I did say the delay would
allow him time to fabricate a not easily disprovable story. The question then
is are there other similiar attacks in the area? Or did the offenders decide to
move on to hobbies more rewarding than shooting at total strangers for no
reason?

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Rick Onanian wrote:

...or he was hurt, closer to home than a hospital,
and went the first place he could think of to call for
help.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The nearest hospital to the scene of the shooting is 10 miles
distant. There's a better than even chance the victim lives somewhere
closer, as his home was said to be in Springfield and the address area
of this town extends out to include this site. For all we know, he
could live on the same road where he was shot. I will be monitoring the
local papers and news broadcasts, to pick up any more developments in
this case.

Steve McDonald

"garmonboezia" wrote in message
news:RbR6b.287491$Oz4.77106@rwcrnsc54...
"Slider2699" wrote in
m:


"Preston Crawford" wrote in message
newsan.2003.09.07.14.28.19.506421@prestoncrawfor d.com...
On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 14:41:12 -0700, Steve McDonald wrote:

Does anyone know of a good source of Kevlar or other types of
bulletproof vests, suitable for bicyclists? How about helmets and
fairings that would deflect bullets? I think I may need such
things if I'm going to continue riding on remote roads in my area.

** amazing stories snipped **

Sweet Jesus, I'd consider moving before buying Kevlar. It sounds like
where you live is Freaking Thunderdome.

Indeed. I live in redneck Florida and haven't heard anything close to
what
the OP describes. I've have a couple of half full beer cans tossed at
me, and a few "nice shorts" comments, but no serious violence. Big
problem here is pit bulls. Jesus, do they issue a pit bull with
purchase of a mobile home? On my regular commuting route I usually
encounter three aggressive pit bulls. Sometimes the owners have the
gates closed, and sometimes they don't. It makes the ride interesting,
to say the least.



Sounds like a chance for good sprint training. The serious ones don't
bark or growl, they just try to circle around you.

Pit bulls are fast, man. Good sprint training, but I swear these guys are
hungry for flesh. Animal control is useless, by the way.

In article ,
Benjamin Enriquez wrote:
Hi Steve,
Understand your problem. If you get hit without warning, nothing will/can
stop that, even Kevlar. The best you can do is workout a system where your
weapon is readily accessible, you do have a weapon don't you, then become as
proficient with it as you can. Think of it as cleaning out the gene pool a
bit.

Suddenly I understand the ideology behind your country's foreign
policy...

List of things to remember on a bike ride:
Pump
energy bars
Glock
water
cell phone
.....

--
Henning