Spoke lacing on a Rohloff

Hello all. Hope Santa was good to everyone. I just finished building a
Speedhub into a 26" Mavic X517, and contrary to Rohloff's insistence
that 26" wheels must be built 2 cross, I made it 3 cross using 256mm
spokes, and it looks ok to me. The nipples come out of the rim at a
slightly greater than normal angle, but not as severely as a 4 cross 36
spoke wheel I have with a Sachs 7 speed hub.
Just wondering if anyone else here has built them 3 cross and how they
held up over time.
Thanks
Dan


--
Dan Burkhart

Per Dan Burkhart:
Just wondering if anyone else here has built them 3 cross and how they
held up over time.

Haven't tried 3x, but how much do you weigh?

I'm about 220# and have toasted 3 517's laced 2x on the rear....so now I use
something stronger in the rear.
--
PeteCresswell

Dan Burkhart wrote:

Hello all. Hope Santa was good to everyone. I just finished building
a
Speedhub into a 26" Mavic X517, and contrary to Rohloff's insistence
that 26" wheels must be built 2 cross, I made it 3 cross using 256mm
spokes, and it looks ok to me. The nipples come out of the rim at a
slightly greater than normal angle, but not as severely as a 4 cross
36
spoke wheel I have with a Sachs 7 speed hub.

What was your goal in lacing 3X?

2X on a Speedhub already has a lever arm larger than you
get with tangential lacing on a typical large-flange hub.
That is, Rohloff 2X is already overkill for torsional
stiffness. 3X just makes the angle at the rim worse,
without any significant benefit that I can think of.


Tom Ace

(Pete Cresswell) Wrote:
Per Dan Burkhart:
Just wondering if anyone else here has built them 3 cross and how
they
held up over time.

Haven't tried 3x, but how much do you weigh?

I'm about 220# and have toasted 3 517's laced 2x on the rear....so now
I use
something stronger in the rear.
--
PeteCresswell

I weigh about 245, and I have been riding this bike for 5 years on the
original Mavic 223s with nary a broken spoke or a tacoed wheel, so I
thought the 517 would work ok. After hearing about your experience
though, I guess I better keep an eye on it.
Dan


--
Dan Burkhart

Tom Ace Wrote:
Dan Burkhart wrote:

Hello all. Hope Santa was good to everyone. I just finished building
a
Speedhub into a 26" Mavic X517, and contrary to Rohloff's insistence
that 26" wheels must be built 2 cross, I made it 3 cross using 256mm
spokes, and it looks ok to me. The nipples come out of the rim at a
slightly greater than normal angle, but not as severely as a 4 cross
36
spoke wheel I have with a Sachs 7 speed hub.

What was your goal in lacing 3X?

2X on a Speedhub already has a lever arm larger than you
get with tangential lacing on a typical large-flange hub.
That is, Rohloff 2X is already overkill for torsional
stiffness. 3X just makes the angle at the rim worse,
without any significant benefit that I can think of.


Tom Ace

Yeah, I realize all that now. It was just my thick headedness thinking
that what Rohloff really meant was that 2 cross was the minimum, so I
went ahead and ordered the spokes for 3 cross. So not wanting to waste
perfectly good double butted spokes that are probably a length not
useable for any other application, I went ahead and built it.
Dan


--
Dan Burkhart

Per Dan Burkhart:
I weigh about 245, and I have been riding this bike for 5 years on the
original Mavic 223s with nary a broken spoke or a tacoed wheel, so I
thought the 517 would work ok. After hearing about your experience
though, I guess I better keep an eye on it.

245? Is this for road or MTB? If MTB and I could, I'd unlace that puppy right
now and return it....cut your losses while you can.
--
PeteCresswell

(Pete Cresswell) Wrote:
Per Dan Burkhart:
I weigh about 245, and I have been riding this bike for 5 years on
the
original Mavic 223s with nary a broken spoke or a tacoed wheel, so I
thought the 517 would work ok. After hearing about your experience
though, I guess I better keep an eye on it.

245? Is this for road or MTB? If MTB and I could, I'd unlace that
puppy right
now and return it....cut your losses while you can.
--
PeteCresswell
It's for MTB. I'll take it under advisement, thanks. I had no idea the
X517 was such a dud.
Dan


--
Dan Burkhart

Dan Burkhart Wrote:
It's for MTB. I'll take it under advisement, thanks. I had no idea the
X517 was such a dud.
Dan


It's not a dud, but it is light weight and intended for rider + load
(not bicycle, but water, tools, etc.) of 90 kg or less.

A 3 cross build from a Rolhoff hub won't help and it might make it
tougher on the spokes.

F519 or XM 719 are rated at 115 kg.
D521 is got to be rated @ 125 kg or more, but it isn't listed any more
with Mavic's technical site.

Have you considered Velocity Synergy rim?


--
daveornee

(Pete Cresswell) wrote:
Per Dan Burkhart:
Just wondering if anyone else here has built them 3 cross and how
they
held up over time.

Haven't tried 3x, but how much do you weigh?

I'm about 220# and have toasted 3 517's laced 2x on the rear....so
now I use
something stronger in the rear.

At 350+ pounds, I felt that I needed something stronger than *any*
32-spoke wheel. (Rohloff claim that their hub makes a wheel that is as
strong as a 48-spoke rear wheel because it is dishless. I don't know
what measure of wheel strength they use to justify that claim. I
wanted 48 spokes anyway.)

So I set about adding some extra holes to the hub shell-- 8 extra on
the left and 16 extra on the right-- and laced up a 48-spoke wheel in a
crow's foot pattern:

http://img140.exs.cx/img140/328/bohmdriv6fo.jpg

That's 32 cross-2 spokes plus 16 radial ones, attached to a 750g Snow
Cat rim.

I used a 2.5 axis CNC mill to drill the hole pattern. I made a special
fixture plate to securely hold the opposite flange without marring it.
Thus I did not have to disassemble the hub for the machining operation.


I filled the 8 unused spoke holes with tiny screws, to make it easier
to keep track of the lacing pattern. The spokes worked out to be
unusal sizes-- 240mm and 220mm long-- so I had to have them cut to
order.

Drilling into a hub that expensive was an uneasy operation, but it all
went according to plan. I am confident that my hole pattern is held to
tighter tolerances than the original drilling.

Chalo Colina

3 cross should be fine.
Radial spoking can cause problems if hub not strong enough to withstand
straight pull. The more oblique the pull, the more metal there is to resist.