Converting Shimano Braided Brake Cables?

On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:30:11 -0700 (PDT), Chalo
wrote:

Steve Sr. wrote:

The brake levers are Shimano SLX and use the braided, *oversized, and
now obsolete style of brake cables. The issue is with the end that
goes in the lever. The original cable end barrels were smaller than
the hole and relied on a plastic shim to make it fit the levers.

The local LBS sold me the new cables with the larger barrels and told
me not to use the old plastic shims. However the fit is still loose
and the new cable barrels are too short to fully reach across the slot
in the lever, an obvious problem.

It's not a problem in my experience. Sometimes the cable end can make
a creaking sound inside the lever, but I've never seen signs of
failure. I have used old Deore and Deore XT 2- and 4-finger levers
designed for 2mm cable with normal 1.6mm cable for many years
(sometimes with proper housing ferrules, sometimes not) without any
unwelcome side effects except for occasional noise.

I think the cables and housings used on those bikes may have some
overlap with the motocross world. Most motocross bikes have switched
to hydraulics by now, but a well-stocked motorcycle shop might have
some cables and housings you could evaluate for your bike.

Chalo

Thanks for the vote of confidence in using the new cable with the old
levers. The old barrel is 8mm dia by 9mm long. The newer cable barrel
is about 7mm dia by 6 mm long.

The main issue is with the barrel length. with these levers the barrel
can only catch on one side of the lever putting a lot of bend stress
on the cable at the barrel junction which doesn't appear to be a good
idea. Other levers may be different and this may not be an issue.

Thanks for the idea about moped/motocross/motorcycle cables. This is
probably where these larger cables originated. I'll have to see if I
can find these in a scooter shop.

Steve`

On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:30:05 -0700 (PDT), someone
wrote:

On 17 June, 02:19, Steve Sr. wrote:
Bike Gurus,

I have a 1992 vintage Trek 950 mountain bike. I hope that this doesn't
disqualify me from this forum! I am raising the handlebars to improve
the fit. Because of this I am having to replace all of the cables and
housings to lengthen them.

The brake levers are Shimano SLX and use the braided, *oversized, and
now obsolete style of brake cables. The issue is with the end that
goes in the lever. The original cable end barrels were smaller than
the hole and relied on a plastic shim to make it fit the levers.

The local LBS sold me the new cables with the larger barrels and told
me not to use the old plastic shims. However the fit is still loose
and the new cable barrels are too short to fully reach across the slot
in the lever, an obvious problem.

Is the a solution, like a smaller shim or different cable, *to make
the new cables work? *Failing this is there any place to get the old
oversize cables and housing material?

You will run into this problem again if you need to replace a cable.
I dont think it is much of a problem from your description. It just
sounds like the barrel diameter is a bit smaller than the anchor hole
in the lever.

The main issue is the barrel length only catching in one side of the
lever putting a lot of bend stress on the cable at the barrel
junction.

If it really bothers you that there is less area for support you
should learn to solder on your own cable nipples. Steel rod of the
correct diameter, drill for inner wire, coutersink one side. Thread
inner through rod, splay wires, flux, hammer in a sprig, solder, cut
off stray wires and sprig end with file, resolder to make neat if
necessary. Cut barrel to width.

Neat idea! I hadn't considered making my own cables. I have never had
much luck soldering steel let alone stainless. What did you use for
flux and solder? What did you use for your "sprig"

Steve

On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:13:26 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jun 16, 6:19*pm, Steve Sr. wrote:
Bike Gurus,

I have a 1992 vintage Trek 950 mountain bike. I hope that this doesn't
disqualify me from this forum! I am raising the handlebars to improve
the fit. Because of this I am having to replace all of the cables and
housings to lengthen them.

The brake levers are Shimano SLX and use the braided, *oversized, and
now obsolete style of brake cables. The issue is with the end that
goes in the lever. The original cable end barrels were smaller than
the hole and relied on a plastic shim to make it fit the levers.

The local LBS sold me the new cables with the larger barrels and told
me not to use the old plastic shims. However the fit is still loose
and the new cable barrels are too short to fully reach across the slot
in the lever, an obvious problem.

Is the a solution, like a smaller shim or different cable, *to make
the new cables work? *Failing this is there any place to get the old
oversize cables and housing material?

Your old brake cables were probably 2.0mm with 6mm
diameter cable housing. New cables are typically 1.5mm
with 5mm diameter housing.

Are you sure you're using the right end of the cable,
or that you did get MTB and not road cables?
Brake cables often come with two soldered-on
ends (what you call the barrels), one smaller than
the other. The small cylindrical end is for road levers
and the large puck-like end fits many MTB levers.
It's hard for me to imagine a lever with a slot so big
that the puck end would be sucked into it.

Ben

Yes, these were the current MTB brake cables. The puck is about 1mm
too small in diameter buthe real problem is that the barrel length is
3mm too short which allows the puck to only hold on one side of the
slot which would put a lot of stress on the cable barrel junction.

Steve

On Jun 17, 6:55*pm, Steve Sr. wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:30:05 -0700 (PDT), someone



wrote:
On 17 June, 02:19, Steve Sr. wrote:
Bike Gurus,

I have a 1992 vintage Trek 950 mountain bike. I hope that this doesn't
disqualify me from this forum! I am raising the handlebars to improve
the fit. Because of this I am having to replace all of the cables and
housings to lengthen them.

The brake levers are Shimano SLX and use the braided, *oversized, and
now obsolete style of brake cables. The issue is with the end that
goes in the lever. The original cable end barrels were smaller than
the hole and relied on a plastic shim to make it fit the levers.

The local LBS sold me the new cables with the larger barrels and told
me not to use the old plastic shims. However the fit is still loose
and the new cable barrels are too short to fully reach across the slot
in the lever, an obvious problem.

Is the a solution, like a smaller shim or different cable, *to make
the new cables work? *Failing this is there any place to get the old
oversize cables and housing material?

You will run into this problem again if you need to replace a cable.
I dont think it is much of a problem from your description. *It just
sounds like the barrel diameter is a bit smaller than the anchor hole
in the lever.

The main issue is the barrel length only catching in one side of the
lever putting a lot of bend stress *on the cable at the barrel
junction.

If it really bothers you that there is less area for support you
should learn to solder on your own cable nipples. *Steel rod of the
correct diameter, drill for inner wire, coutersink one side. *Thread
inner through rod, splay wires, flux, hammer in a sprig, solder, cut
off stray wires and sprig end with file, resolder to make neat if
necessary. *Cut barrel to width.

Neat idea! I hadn't considered making my own cables. I have never had
much luck soldering steel let alone stainless. What did you use for
flux and solder? What did you use for your "sprig"

Steve

This acid flux seems to work well for me -- soldered chromed steel
things to nickel plated brass things with it the other day. Just don't
breathe the fumes when it heats up.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#7695a1/=2d2y1f

-pm

On Jun 18, 1:31 am, Steve Sr. wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 06:51:12 -0700 (PDT), landotter



wrote:
On Jun 16, 9:19 pm, Steve Sr. wrote:
Bike Gurus,

I have a 1992 vintage Trek 950 mountain bike. I hope that this doesn't
disqualify me from this forum! I am raising the handlebars to improve
the fit. Because of this I am having to replace all of the cables and
housings to lengthen them.

The brake levers are Shimano SLX and use the braided, oversized, and
now obsolete style of brake cables. The issue is with the end that
goes in the lever. The original cable end barrels were smaller than
the hole and relied on a plastic shim to make it fit the levers.

The local LBS sold me the new cables with the larger barrels and told
me not to use the old plastic shims. However the fit is still loose
and the new cable barrels are too short to fully reach across the slot
in the lever, an obvious problem.

Is the a solution, like a smaller shim or different cable, to make
the new cables work? Failing this is there any place to get the old
oversize cables and housing material?

How much time and energy is this worth when you can get a really sweet
set of Tektro 354 levers for under a twenty? They'll pull cantis fine,
and if you ever decide to switch to linear pull brakes on one end or
both, they can pull that as well with a little adjustment.

Therse are Shimano Deore DX SLR integrated with the shifters. The rear
is old 7-speed. I wasn't planning on having to replace both brifters.
I doubt that I could find this combination for $20.

Steve

7spd Shimano STF50s are ~25. No trim on the front shifter, but really
nice budget brifters. However, if it's just a matter of the cables
rattling around, you can fix that with some shrink wrap over the ends
to fatten 'em up.

On 18 June, 02:55, Steve Sr. wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:30:05 -0700 (PDT), someone



wrote:
On 17 June, 02:19, Steve Sr. wrote:
Bike Gurus,

I have a 1992 vintage Trek 950 mountain bike. I hope that this doesn't
disqualify me from this forum! I am raising the handlebars to improve
the fit. Because of this I am having to replace all of the cables and
housings to lengthen them.

The brake levers are Shimano SLX and use the braided, *oversized, and
now obsolete style of brake cables. The issue is with the end that
goes in the lever. The original cable end barrels were smaller than
the hole and relied on a plastic shim to make it fit the levers.

The local LBS sold me the new cables with the larger barrels and told
me not to use the old plastic shims. However the fit is still loose
and the new cable barrels are too short to fully reach across the slot
in the lever, an obvious problem.

Is the a solution, like a smaller shim or different cable, *to make
the new cables work? *Failing this is there any place to get the old
oversize cables and housing material?

You will run into this problem again if you need to replace a cable.
I dont think it is much of a problem from your description. *It just
sounds like the barrel diameter is a bit smaller than the anchor hole
in the lever.

The main issue is the barrel length only catching in one side of the
lever putting a lot of bend stress *on the cable at the barrel
junction.

If it really bothers you that there is less area for support you
should learn to solder on your own cable nipples. *Steel rod of the
correct diameter, drill for inner wire, coutersink one side. *Thread
inner through rod, splay wires, flux, hammer in a sprig, solder, cut
off stray wires and sprig end with file, resolder to make neat if
necessary. *Cut barrel to width.

Neat idea! I hadn't considered making my own cables. I have never had
much luck soldering steel let alone stainless. What did you use for
flux and solder? What did you use for your "sprig"

Steel normally requires tinning. I cannot remember doing this. Too
long for me to remember precise method I used. I suppose you could
copper plate the drilled steel to make the subsequent soldering
easier. Pot, brine, lead acid battery, copper, wire with crocodile
clips.
Glazing brad(?) was the sprig. A taper of 1 in 12(a guess) from sheet
steel.

On 18 June, 02:36, Steve Sr. wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:45:30 -0700 (PDT), someone



wrote:
On 17 June, 11:30, Chalo wrote:
Steve Sr. wrote:

The brake levers are Shimano SLX and use the braided, *oversized, and
now obsolete style of brake cables. The issue is with the end that
goes in the lever. The original cable end barrels were smaller than
the hole and relied on a plastic shim to make it fit the levers.

The local LBS sold me the new cables with the larger barrels and told
me not to use the old plastic shims. However the fit is still loose
and the new cable barrels are too short to fully reach across the slot
in the lever, an obvious problem.

It's not a problem in my experience. *Sometimes the cable end can make
a creaking sound inside the lever, but I've never seen signs of
failure. *I have used old Deore and Deore XT 2- and 4-finger levers
designed for 2mm cable with normal 1.6mm cable for many years
(sometimes with proper housing ferrules, sometimes not) without any
unwelcome side effects except for occasional noise.

I think the cables and housings used on those bikes may have some
overlap with the motocross world. *Most motocross bikes have switched
to hydraulics by now, but a well-stocked motorcycle shop might have
some cables and housings you could evaluate for your bike.

If it's a problem of specific housing diameter, the new housing can be
centred with the aid of adhesive shrink wrap tubing for wiring
cables. *Using about 2 1/2" will also aid in the prevention of future
housing damage. *Alternatively you could leave the handlebar section
with the old housing and join it to some new with the shrink wrap.
Anyway, if the old stuff is stiffer and better fitting, use the old
rear as the new front as long as it is still in good condition. *This
is the most important brake reqiring the greatest force for good
operation.

It is a problem that both the housing and inner wire obsolete.
Splicing sections of housing might be a possibility but I would need
more than I have. The rear wire could be reused for the front but I
still would need a new rear wire which doesn't appear to be available.

Throttle cables sometimes have long barrel nipples on them.

On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:00:19 -0400, Steve Sr.
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:13:26 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jun 16, 6:19*pm, Steve Sr. wrote:
Bike Gurus,

I have a 1992 vintage Trek 950 mountain bike. I hope that this doesn't
disqualify me from this forum! I am raising the handlebars to improve
the fit. Because of this I am having to replace all of the cables and
housings to lengthen them.

The brake levers are Shimano SLX and use the braided, *oversized, and
now obsolete style of brake cables. The issue is with the end that
goes in the lever. The original cable end barrels were smaller than
the hole and relied on a plastic shim to make it fit the levers.

The local LBS sold me the new cables with the larger barrels and told
me not to use the old plastic shims. However the fit is still loose
and the new cable barrels are too short to fully reach across the slot
in the lever, an obvious problem.

Is the a solution, like a smaller shim or different cable, *to make
the new cables work? *Failing this is there any place to get the old
oversize cables and housing material?

Your old brake cables were probably 2.0mm with 6mm
diameter cable housing. New cables are typically 1.5mm
with 5mm diameter housing.

Are you sure you're using the right end of the cable,
or that you did get MTB and not road cables?
Brake cables often come with two soldered-on
ends (what you call the barrels), one smaller than
the other. The small cylindrical end is for road levers
and the large puck-like end fits many MTB levers.
It's hard for me to imagine a lever with a slot so big
that the puck end would be sucked into it.

Ben

Yes, these were the current MTB brake cables. The puck is about 1mm
too small in diameter buthe real problem is that the barrel length is
3mm too short which allows the puck to only hold on one side of the
slot which would put a lot of stress on the cable barrel junction.

Steve

Thanks for everyone's thoughtful suggestions. I finally decided on a
solution that doesn't require any steel soldering or too much complex
machining and uses currently available MTB brake cables.

Since the new barrel is slightly smaller in diameter than the hole in
the lever I decided to make a longer half-moon shim to act as a barrel
extension. The original cables had a plastic shim in the same position
to compensate for a small barrel on the cable. The plastic of the shim
provided the bearing surface to the hole in the lever.

The shim material I chose I found as a stock bronze bushing 0.25" I.D.
x 0.3125 O.D x 5/8" long. The new barrel is slightly larger than the
I.D of the bushing so some careful bending is required to make it fit
around the new barrel.

Machining is pretty simple. Cut the bushing to length (about 9mm). Cut
the bushing lengthwise on both sides to create the half-moon shapes.
Drill a small hole in the middle of each shim to allow the cable to
pass through. The new shim now acts as a bearing surface while holding
the new barrel in the center of the hole in the lever.

Another option for material for a shim is to use 11/32" x .029 wall
brass tubing. This tubing has the correct I.D to match the barrel end
on the cable so no bending is required. It is available from
KSmetals.com special shapes division (800-517-4273).


Thanks,

Steve