I dont know beans about racing ...but what is going on with Armstrong /

Is everyone else LYING ..? and Lance telling the truth ?? I dont get
it .. ...Has he EVER
been tested ?

wrote in message
oups.com...
Is everyone else LYING ..? and Lance telling the truth ?? I dont get
it .. ...Has he EVER
been tested ?

According to Lafferty he's never been tested at all and he's been doping
since birth and has paid everyone off even when he could barely make a
living winning triathlons.

wrote:
Is everyone else LYING ..? and Lance telling the truth ?? I dont get
it .. ...Has he EVER
been tested ?

A string of negative tests does not mean they're dope free. All those
riders caught up in the Puerto affair tested clean, too. Well, except
for Tyler.

The question isn't whether you're too cynical about doping in pro
cycling. It's whether you're cynical enough.

In article
. com,
"Ernst Blofeld" wrote:

wrote:
Is everyone else LYING ..? and Lance telling the truth ?? I dont get
it .. ...Has he EVER
been tested ?

A string of negative tests does not mean they're dope free. All those
riders caught up in the Puerto affair tested clean, too. Well, except
for Tyler.

The question isn't whether you're too cynical about doping in pro
cycling. It's whether you're cynical enough.

You can be when it affects your judgment. When the
governing bodies are whipping up hysteria and when civil
authorities are getting involved it means everyone is
guilty. The governing bodies could have managed the
problem better with less scandal, but they figured they'd
make the riders the fall guy. It works for a while, then
the rent comes due.

--
Michael Press

You can be when it affects your judgment. When the
governing bodies are whipping up hysteria

Nonsense. It's a newspaper that whips up hysteria. The guarda Civil
only does it's job: it uncovered a criminal organisation.


and when civil
authorities are getting involved it means everyone is
guilty.

Oh yes, in Europe we summarily sentence people and lock them up on an
island.

The governing bodies could have managed the
problem better with less scandal, but they figured they'd
make the riders the fall guy.

Nonsense. They arrested the Director-Sportiff's and doctors. The action
towards riders is so far pretty much minimal.

You prefer a cover up it seems?

Michael Press wrote:
The question isn't whether you're too cynical about doping in pro
cycling. It's whether you're cynical enough.

You can be when it affects your judgment. When the
governing bodies are whipping up hysteria and when civil
authorities are getting involved it means everyone is
guilty.

How many were involved in the Puerto scandal, fifty or so?
That alone is something like 20% of the elite pro peleton.
Given the costs involved, I'd expect that the clients were
mostly top level athletes. I think you'd be dreaming if there
weren't similar operations in Italy and the Benelux states,
perhaps in the US too. It wouldn't surprise me if a third to
a half of the peleton was doping.


The governing bodies could have managed the
problem better with less scandal, but they figured they'd
make the riders the fall guy

Frankly, some scandal is called for. The doping situation
is scandalous. Festina was supposed to be the wakeup call,
and here we are, years later, and doping is still widespread.

The riders should be named and given
lengthy suspensions of two years or more. The governing
body should start looking at lifetime bans for doping by
riders and team employees. Maybe if every coach and
employee on a team gets a lifetime ban if a rider dopes
that would be a sufficient incentive for them to not send
their riders to notorious dope docs, and to keep an eye out
for obvous signs of doping by the riders.

"Ernst Blofeld" wrote in message
ups.com...
....
Frankly, some scandal is called for. The doping situation
is scandalous. Festina was supposed to be the wakeup call,
and here we are, years later, and doping is still widespread.

Scandalous why? People will do anything for fame and money, and that will
never change. People in general do so many things to shorten their lives and
ruin their health, that singling out the doping techniques used by pro
athletes to me seems just silly. Let them shorten their lives, or suffer the
consquences whatever those might be. Sure, publish the risks, speculate on
what they're taking, but I'm for deregulation on this one.

That the pro's behavior might affect what kids are willing to do at younger
ages to emulate their role models is a valid reason for regulation, but we
all know there's no way to completely control the situation. It ends up
with a very few getting caught and most getting away with it, which isn't
fair to those who got caught. A sunshine policy would be more admirable than
this silly cops and robbers bull**** we're seeing with idiots like Dick
Pound out there trying to play God.

I'm sure I'm not the only one whose entirely sick of pharmaceutical
commercials on television, particularly the flowmax and viagra variety at
dinnertime. To me all this doping bull**** is just like that -- I'd rather
not see the scandalous details in the news every few weeks. "Don't ask,
don't tell" fits the bill here.

Did Armstrong dope? Pre-cancer I'd bet yes, post-cancer maybe yes, maybe no.
To me it's water under the bridge. He didn't get caught red-handed or in
previous tests, and the doping authorities shouldn't try to retroactively
destroy his accomplishments. The French test was done on old samples for
research and should be treated as such. What other cycling greats of past
era's doped or used drugs? I think we all know the answer is that they used
whatever would help them that was deemed safe from a risk/reward
perspective.

-Tony

Tony S. wrote:
Frankly, some scandal is called for. The doping situation
is scandalous. Festina was supposed to be the wakeup call,
and here we are, years later, and doping is still widespread.

Scandalous why? People will do anything for fame and money, and that will
never change. People in general do so many things to shorten their lives and
ruin their health, that singling out the doping techniques used by pro
athletes to me seems just silly.

Let's cut to the chase and just bring back gladiator shows. Sure,
they'll
suffer a bloody death on national TV. But it will be glorious!

The presence of dope forces all riders, even those who would prefer
not to dope, into the regime. You can't race against Mr. 60% on
mineral water.

In article
.com,
"Tuschinski" wrote:

You can be when it affects your judgment. When the
governing bodies are whipping up hysteria

Nonsense. It's a newspaper that whips up hysteria. The guarda Civil
only does it's job: it uncovered a criminal organisation.

The newspapers got their information through WADA and UCI.
Neither WADA nor UCI denounced L'Equipé. Hence the
governing bodies are whipping up hysteria rather than
governing cycling.

and when civil
authorities are getting involved it means everyone is
guilty.

Oh yes, in Europe we summarily sentence people and lock them up on an
island.

Let's keep this on topic. I will posit that Europeans are
better at government and running empires; but you are
doing a bad job of running a simple cycling organization.
I'm not the one instituting draconian measures to govern
cycling; measures that are never necessary, but used by
those in power too lazy to keep a well run house.

The governing bodies could have managed the
problem better with less scandal, but they figured they'd
make the riders the fall guy.

Nonsense. They arrested the Director-Sportiff's and doctors. The action
towards riders is so far pretty much minimal.

Two year suspensions based on a laboratory test so bad
that suspensions based upon it have been overturned on
scientific grounds?

You prefer a cover up it seems?

You do not know what I think, so stop pretending that you
do.

--
Michael Press

In article
. com,
"Ernst Blofeld" wrote:

Michael Press wrote:
The question isn't whether you're too cynical about doping in pro
cycling. It's whether you're cynical enough.

You can be when it affects your judgment. When the
governing bodies are whipping up hysteria and when civil
authorities are getting involved it means everyone is
guilty.

How many were involved in the Puerto scandal, fifty or so?
That alone is something like 20% of the elite pro peleton.
Given the costs involved, I'd expect that the clients were
mostly top level athletes. I think you'd be dreaming if there
weren't similar operations in Italy and the Benelux states,
perhaps in the US too. It wouldn't surprise me if a third to
a half of the peleton was doping.


The governing bodies could have managed the
problem better with less scandal, but they figured they'd
make the riders the fall guy

Frankly, some scandal is called for. The doping situation
is scandalous. Festina was supposed to be the wakeup call,
and here we are, years later, and doping is still widespread.

The riders should be named and given
lengthy suspensions of two years or more. The governing
body should start looking at lifetime bans for doping by
riders and team employees. Maybe if every coach and
employee on a team gets a lifetime ban if a rider dopes
that would be a sufficient incentive for them to not send
their riders to notorious dope docs, and to keep an eye out
for obvous signs of doping by the riders.

I am saying that a governing body that allows itself to
get into this situation is incompetent to govern. Suspend
all the riders and put on a grand tour.

We have heard stories of team directors telling the riders
`Take these pharmaceuticals or don't ride.' You want to
make the riders the fall guy. Remember when I said

The governing bodies could have managed the
problem better with less scandal, but they figured they'd
make the riders the fall guy. It works for a while, then
the rent comes due.

--
Michael Press